Poll of the Day > okay star wars fans explain this to me...how does a society run by the sith work

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The Sith all seem to hate each other and focus on the worst parts of themselves....so it's hard to see anyone being loyal to them for that long before the backstabbing begins

so how the hell do you keep a society of the sith running without it collapsing instantly?
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They earn Sith points that they can cut out of their powdered drink mix packets that they can mail in for fun items when they earn enough
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Generally they don't, that's kind of the point. It's the justification used in legends for why the rule of two was created, as otherwise the sith need to compromise on their philosophy if they want to stay above water.
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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_(species)

I don't know why GameFAQs insists on cutting out the final parenthesis for links.
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NightMareBunny posted...

How does a society run by the sith work?

Fairly well, apparently, considering the Empire lasted for 30 years or so and ran more or less effectively during that time... and actually managed to leave behind a relatively powerful core of individuals devoted to restoring it even after it fell apart.

It operates pretty much the same way as any other repressive tyranny from any point in human history - most of which were very successful in the short term (and some of which were also relatively successful in the long-term as well).



NightMareBunny posted...

The Sith all seem to hate each other and focus on the worst parts of themselves

Not really. It's more accurate to say that they're just very selfish, putting themselves above the well-being of others, meaning that they're exactly like every other autocratic leader in the entire history of humanity.

In that sense, the Empire of the Galactic Empire isn't much different at all from the Emperor of Rome or the Emperor of China.



NightMareBunny posted...

it's hard to see anyone being loyal to them for that long before the backstabbing begins

Again, this just leaves you in exactly the same boat as pretty much every human civilization ever.

In the specific example of the Star Wars universe, Palpatine held power easily early on via propaganda and by appealing to the existing bureaucracy, even as he slowly invalidated them. Additionally, at least for the first few years of his reign he basically had access to a mindlessly loyal and highly-trained military force that couldn't be subverted by political enemies (and which wouldn't establish its own dynasty or develop ambitions of its own, which is how similar groups like the Praetorian Guard or Mamluks or Janissaries from human history tended to turn on their masters).

By the time the clones apparently started running out and being replaced by trained outsiders, there was already a tradition of loyalty and obedience ingrained into culture as a whole that put social inertia to work to support the Emperor's rule (see also, Nazi Germany). Added to which, individuals and organizations that benefited from the Emperor's rule then became personally motivated to help support the Empire, because their continued good fortune depended on the continued survival of the Empire (again, see also, most of human history).

As for how backstabbing was minimized within the Empire itself, again, every successful autocratic ruler in human history gives fairly good examples. Competition is encouraged, thus increasing backstabbing - but by pointing all of your Generals and Admirals and Governors at each other, you prevent them from looking upwards towards your own seat. Competition spurs each to excel in order to accrue more influence and power, but the very act of accruing influence and power makes them a greater threat to their peers, who then align against them and prevent them from rising to a level of success where they actually threaten the Emperor. Betrayal, backstabbing, and treachery is encouraged, but BLATANT treachery or failure is still punished, meaning that potential troublemakers who disrupt the system as a whole or who are clearly reaching beyond their station can easily be dealt with from above before they become a threat.

The whole thing becomes a massive balancing act, and the potential for the whole thing to explode always exists, but those sorts of political systems usually do quite well for themselves for at least a few generations. Especially if an "outside" enemy continues to exist to act as a scapegoat and a release valve for aggression (ie, in some ways, the Rebellion was the greatest ally the Empire ever had).


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NightMareBunny posted...

so how the hell do you keep a society of the sith running without it collapsing instantly?

From what I understood from the Old Republic, a large council of Sith Lords headed by a single, nigh omnipotent Sith Emperor. So many Sith Lords that a few backstabs do not make any significant dent in their numbers and powers. Also, remember, not all Sith are Stupid Evil, they try to get ahead in power but also maintain their society.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Also, remember, not all Sith are Stupid Evil, they try to get ahead in power but also maintain their society.

It's hard to backstab your way up the ladder if everyone is trying to kick the ladder down. So there's always at least some motivation to maintain order, if only so that you can make it work for you later.

In the same vein, there's always at least some motivation to pay lip-service and obey the person at the top, because if you ever manage to claw your own way into the top position, you want everyone else to obey you - so you have a vested interest in maintaining the system so that, if you manage to conquer the system, the system gives you the power you want.

In some ways, the Sith are more Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil. And the Chaotic Evil ones tend to get killed by the ones who are more capable of subtlety and forming alliances.

This definitely becomes even more the case after the "Rule of Two" kicks in, where the rules for betraying your master are almost formalized to a science.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

In some ways, the Sith are more Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil. And the Chaotic Evil ones tend to get killed by the ones who are more capable of subtlety and forming alliances.

I always thought going with good and evil for the light and dark sides was a bit to simplistic.

It's order and chaos, but the regimes they support are the opposite, because otherwise it wouldn't work.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

I always thought going with good and evil for the light and dark sides was a bit to simplistic.

It's order and chaos, but the regimes they support are the opposite, because otherwise it wouldn't work.

Arguably, they're more like the Seelie and Unseelie in terms of fairies - they're not so much good/evil or order/chaos as much as they are more the difference between self-centered or rule-bound.

A Sith is the ultimate individualist, who views the universe through a lens of "what benefits ME?", but the methods they use to actualize that worldview aren't inherently disruptive. A Sith can easily take advantage of existing rules and structures to facilitate their own ascension. Arguably, that's Palpatine's entire deal - at NO POINT in his rule is he ever operating outside of the system. He's just abusing the system's loopholes, and forcing it to work for him rather than him working for it. Except for the bit at the end of Revenge of the Sith (which is kind of stupid and where he outright loses anyway), he never directly faces down any opposition. He's all about deception and pulling strings, ultimately making everyone ELSE do exactly what he wants. Fear and intimidation is only part of it (and honestly, not even his most effective tool until later in his reign).

While a Sith is always concerned about what THEY want first and foremost, that doesn't actually render them incapable of caring about other people, or following other people's rules, or acting in the best interests of other people as well.

They're not necessarily cartoonish moustache-twirling villains who have to kick every dog and slap every baby simply because they're there, except when Lucas is at the height of his "not even remotely giving a fuck" moments.


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If you want a more realistic view of a Sith society, look at the Telvanni from Morrowind.
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Once again, PO saves me the trouble of posting.
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