Poll of the Day > Is freedom of speech dying?

(+) Yeah! (+)

First a woman is arrested for laughing at sessions and now a reporter is arrested for asking price questions.
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What exactly were they arrested for? Wtf
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You're evidence is compelling, but I don't think we can establish a pattern until a total of 3 things have happened.
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Considering that we're letting violent thugs shut down public speaking events, maybe. Especially given that mayors seem to publicly supported these violent thugs,.

Lightning Bolt posted...

You're evidence is compelling,

Seriously, dude?
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You live in an era where anyone, anywhere, can put their message on a magical box and have it be broadcast to hundreds of millions of other peoples' magic boxes and you're asking if free speech is dying?
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Free speech cannot truly be killed, at least not permanently, because fascist systems are far more instable and inefficient than they look. Free Speech is blatantly under siege especially in some parts of the world right now though.
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To answer the topic title question:

No, in the west, it is not really dying. It is in fact at about the strongest it has ever been, to the point where it is actually hurting ITSELF.

Let me explain that rather odd statement.

The internet has allowed for the existence of far more freedom in speech than has occurred previously. You can talk to people you wouldn't have been able to before, and you can do so while either completely anonymous, or wearing a digital "mask" in the form of a username. i.e. you know me as Sephiroth C Ryu, but it is unlikely any of you know who I am, where I live, etc, and so I can say any number of things I wouldn't really want to say if I were talking to some people who are physically in my presence.

While I personally try to avoid acting too differently online than in face-to-face situations, the ability to say whatever you want at any time results in an extremely strong freedom of speech. So strong, that people will say many things they would never say if they were face to face with other people.

This has led to a fair deal of abuse of the freedom of speech, due to people actually using it in ways that were unthinkable before. You could in the past go out to some crowded area and get up on a soapbox and shout out stuff to your town, but if you were saying nasty enough stuff it is reasonable to say that at least someone would be able to figure who you are and thus your reputation as some hurtful shouter of things would get to be known by people you live near (also, you might get arrested for disturbing the peace).


For the most part, the things that are "under siege" are just instances (sometimes taken a little too far) where someone did something that is actually bad and hurtful, and are just attempting to hide before the "Freedom of Speech" as if it were a shield. Anyone who does this DESERVES whatever punishment they get. Just because it is a right does not mean it is a shield to use to let you say anything you want. Arguing otherwise is similar to arguing that the freedom to bear arms means the freedom to shoot people. Which is not the case, because outside of very specific circumstances, shooting people actually is one or more crimes.


There is one area though where it is under siege... from itself. This is known as... Political Correctness. It is what happens when freedom of speech becomes used as a weapon, and the counter-reaction to this goes too far due to people again using the freedom of speech to voice their opinions that freedom of speech should be restricted to protect people from the dangers of... freedom of speech?

No. Freedom of speech is not dying. Masks and/or anonymity given to us through the internet have merely gotten it strong enough that we are starting to have to consider using other laws to protect people from those who want to use freedom of speech as a weapon to hurt others, accidentally or not.
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The reporter beat up a bunch of people to get close to ask those questions.

But if you want to see real censorship in action... look up the purple mattress powder conspiracy.
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Zeus posted...

Considering that we're letting violent thugs shut down public speaking events, maybe. Especially given that mayors seem to publicly supported these violent thugs,.

Lightning Bolt posted...

You're evidence is compelling,

Seriously, dude?

Zeus posted...

Especially given that mayors seem to publicly supported these violent thugs,.

Seriously, dude?
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darkknight109 posted...

You live in an era where anyone, anywhere, can put their message on a magical box and have it be broadcast to hundreds of millions of other peoples' magic boxes and you're asking if free speech is dying?

That's not really what free speech is all about. Right now, a person in China can have their message heard by millions, but they could be arrested immediately afterward for saying it. Free speech isn't about merely just having the ability to be heard, but having the freedom to be heard without fear of imprisonment or violence.

Sephiroth C Ryu posted...

No, in the west, it is not really dying. It is in fact at about the strongest it has ever been, to the point where it is actually hurting ITSELF.

Except no, because the dangers are all external. Likewise, free has been more free in the past. Prior to determining the limitations of free speech through court cases, it used to include the ability to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater. Plus hate crime laws have been liberally applied to arrest people within certain contexts and to justify the use of violence against others; then you have laws increasingly restricting artistic license. For the virtue of free speech to truly exist, society has to allow more than just the opinions it agrees with. Granted, we're still better than countries like Canada and Russia where no such freedom exists.

And keep in mind that now more than ever you have people insisting for the removal of free speech so, in all likelihood, laws will increasingly bar speech in the future and censorship will only get stronger.
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I agree with the PC movement harming it... Any time something goes too far, it ruins whatever it is, like burning your toast. Freedom of speech has a big issue in extreme left and right groups (western-style ones) wanting things they disagree with to essentially vanish. The left tends to push the envelope too far until the right becomes violent and oppressive, but stuff like the SJWs makes typical moderates drown the whole thing out, even though they are typically more rational.
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Sarcasthma posted...

Seriously, dude?

Which is the only possible reason to mayor Jesse Arreguin blaming Milo for the destruction caused by Antifa mere hours after the protest and, it should be noted, that Arreguin was in Antifa's Facebook group. After he started getting death threats, his tune changed a little, though. Some news outlets were claiming that he might have also been under FBI investigation (likely for his Tweets supporting the shutdown and his Facebook group) but I couldn't independently confirm that claim.
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I feel like I have the ability to speak freely if there was something important to say. And edit it.
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Zeus posted...

That's not really what free speech is all about. Right now, a person in China can have their message heard by millions, but they could be arrested immediately afterward for saying it. Free speech isn't about merely just having the ability to be heard, but having the freedom to be heard without fear of imprisonment or violence.

Oh, in that case...

Wait, no, even if you use that metric we're STILL in the greatest era of free speech in the history of the world.

Are people getting shouted down and threatened for voicing certain viewpoints amongst certain crowds? Yes. But, contrary to what the alarmists would have you believe, that's not new. When I was a child you could provoke that same reaction by advocating for gay rights. Before that, suggesting that non-whites were people too was grounds for violence and, far from coming in to break things up, the police would often take part.

Today's "violent censorship" is actually pretty tame by comparison. That doesn't make it right, but all the wailing about free speech dying is overblown.
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