Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 89: AHCA DOA ASAP, RIP

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheRock1525 posted...

Oh, what did Trump sign today for his EO?

Religious Liberty aka legalized discrimination
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Oh hey apparently another GREAT FEATURE of pre-ACA healthcare is back under this bill if states request waivers: insurance companies can once again impose yearly or lifetime caps on coverage!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, what a massive W!
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Eddv posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Oh, what did Trump sign today for his EO?

Religious Liberty aka legalized discrimination

From what I understand, it's instructions for the IRS to not aggressively pursue political violations of non-profits, not actually do away with the Johnson Amendment.
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This oped has a pretty good list of all of the garbage in this bill, btw:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/05/04/every-republican-who-voted-for-this-abomination-must-be-held-accountable/

Someone please try to defend all of that with a straight face.
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The Mana Sword posted...

read the topic Jak!!!

that was already posted!!!!

Whoops! I somehow missed it; sorry.
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http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a54881/republican-healthcare-premium-increases/?src=nl&mag=esq&list=nl_enl_news&date=050417

Sounds like premiums will be going up if you have Asthma or Diabetes (or children with those conditions)
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Just ask for free insulin
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Premiums wont go down for anyone except for the young and healthy who wont buy it anyway
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So it sounds like the only people who are going to actually be able to afford healthcare at this rate are the people who don't need it (or are independently wealthy enough to almost literally buy an entire hospital just for themselves)
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They DID at least amend it so Congress themselves aren't allowed to be exempt from the AHCA right?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

impose

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose. This is actually a rolling back of imposition.

That said, insurance, like Social Security, is pretty much a Ponzi scheme. Noone should fall for it, much less be forced into it.
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JDPizza posted...

Companies make offers.

Spoken like someone who was born yesterday.
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JDPizza posted...

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose. This is actually a rolling back of imposition.

No? What the fuck are you talking about?

JDPizza posted...

That said, insurance, like Social Security, is pretty much a Ponzi scheme. Noone should fall for it, much less be forced into it.

Wrong again. Insurance is a very natural way to manage uncertainty/risk. You could certainly argue that there are better ways to deal with that uncertainty (like single payer or whatever), but calling insurance a ponzi scheme is ridiculous.
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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/04/gops-obamacare-replacement-bill-would-protect-just-5-percent-of-people-with-pre-existing-conditions-analysis.html

Wooo high risk pools are AWESOME.
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Sorry that I prefer the people that aren't pointing guns at me. *shrug*
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JDPizza posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

impose

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose.

the government is literally just people paid by companies to get elected to impose companies will

I agree social security is a Ponzi scheme but I don't think at this point we can just "not fall for it."

Is there a better alternative? Asking honestly
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Real talk my dad is on Social Security Disability.

What should be done with him?
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JDPizza posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

impose

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose. This is actually a rolling back of imposition.

...How does this make sense as a reply to what he said?
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JDPizza posted...

Sorry that I prefer the people that aren't pointing guns at me. *shrug*

police don't work "for government" they work to protect capital. this is why companies will call the police on you if you are, say, on a plane that they own that they want you to get off of. the people with guns are also servants of the corporations as much as the government.

StealThisSheen posted...

JDPizza posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

impose

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose. This is actually a rolling back of imposition.

...How does this make sense as a reply to what he said?

There isn't really any point in taking JDTAY any more seriously than you would SephG.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Real talk my dad is on Social Security Disability.

What should be done with him?

Real talk, I'm on Social Security disability.

What am I going to do when the bubble bursts?
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Jakyl25 posted...

I agree social security is a Ponzi scheme but I don't think at this point we can just "not fall for it."

Is there a better alternative? Asking honestly

UBI

JDPizza posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Real talk my dad is on Social Security Disability.

What should be done with him?

Real talk, I'm on Social Security disability.

What am I going to do when the bubble bursts?

So why don't we work on ways to continue funding a program that helps so many people instead of throwing up our hands and going "oh well, enjoy living on the streets."?
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Jakyl25 posted...

I agree social security is a Ponzi scheme but I don't think at this point we can just "not fall for it."

Is there a better alternative? Asking honestly

The Bush era plan may be the best bet.

Fund the slush fund for everyone currently i dunno 35 or older but for everyone younger than that have their social security payments put into a private account for each person which then pays out.

Maybe even continue to fund an excess fund for people who live beyond their savings taken from those who dont need this say, anyone making over 250k per year.
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Unknown_voter posted...

JDPizza posted...

Sorry that I prefer the people that aren't pointing guns at me. *shrug*

police don't work "for government" they work to protect capital. this is why companies will call the police on you if you are, say, on a plane that they own that they want you to get off of. the people with guns are also servants of the corporations as much as the government.

Technically speaking, these people are generally security rather than police. The United Airlines case that you're probably referencing here was, for example, actually airport security.

Now, security often hires from the police, either retired or off duty, but fusing the two is distorting the image.
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Eddv posted...

Maybe even continue to fund an excess fund for people who live beyond their savings taken from those who dont need this say, anyone making over 250k per year.

Thousands of rich people just choked on their caviar and they don't know why
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JDPizza posted...

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Companies make offers. Governments impose. This is actually a rolling back of imposition.

wow at least with this kinda reach you'll be of use if nasa ever wants the mars rover back
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TheRock1525 posted...

SupremeZero posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Why are all these amazing avenues available and yet people still have to go bankrupt over healthcare? Why are these amazing avenues doing such a piss poor job of getting themselves out there if they could truly help all the uninsured in the US?

People don't tend to investigate all their options. There ARE options out there for people without insurance that are poor.

That said, A: These options can't support the numbers that would be losing insurance here, and B: Asking people to do heavy research when they're sick is kind of a dick move.

Which is why if these people truly wanted to help, they'd do more to get their message out about how they can help the uninsured.

Ulti and I have been giving actual real life advice to help people in this topic
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We're talking macro level here. And you haven't cited specific people to contact about these things. By all means if you're PMing these users asking for information and areas to look for help, like actual physical locations, please feel free to pat yourself on the back. Otherwise it's just generalities and platitudes. "Twist a pharmacy company's arm" isn't real life advice.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

SupremeZero posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Why are all these amazing avenues available and yet people still have to go bankrupt over healthcare? Why are these amazing avenues doing such a piss poor job of getting themselves out there if they could truly help all the uninsured in the US?

People don't tend to investigate all their options. There ARE options out there for people without insurance that are poor.

That said, A: These options can't support the numbers that would be losing insurance here, and B: Asking people to do heavy research when they're sick is kind of a dick move.

Which is why if these people truly wanted to help, they'd do more to get their message out about how they can help the uninsured.

Ulti and I have been giving actual real life advice to help people in this topic

Keep telling yourself that, and maybe one day even you'll believe it!
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TheRock1525 posted...

We're talking macro level here. And you haven't cited specific people to contact about these things. By all means if you're PMing these users asking for information and areas to look for help, like actual physical locations, please feel free to pat yourself on the back. Otherwise it's just generalities and platitudes. "Twist a pharmacy company's arm" isn't real life advice.

"Find a well-known specialist in your area instead of a deadbeat doc who can't negotiate with insurance companies" is about as specific as I can get to a non-specific dilemma
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/healthcare-democrats-booing-na-na-na-good-bye-singing/index.html

This is the literal definition of hubris
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/healthcare-democrats-booing-na-na-na-good-bye-singing/index.html

This is the literal definition of hubris

Hey, something we agree on.

This is actually a part of why we lost.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

We're talking macro level here. And you haven't cited specific people to contact about these things. By all means if you're PMing these users asking for information and areas to look for help, like actual physical locations, please feel free to pat yourself on the back. Otherwise it's just generalities and platitudes. "Twist a pharmacy company's arm" isn't real life advice.

"Find a well-known specialist in your area instead of a deadbeat doc who can't negotiate with insurance companies" is about as specific as I can get to a non-specific dilemma

Are you actually PMing them or just calling them out this topic? Because the former shows you actually care and the latter has zero value.

Also, fun fact: well known specialists reject patients all the time. I'm dealing with trying to get my dad a new doctor since they discontinued his pain medication, and pain management will not see him without a referral from his doctor. Pain management will also not take on new patients from out of state, meaning that we have to get him listed as a permanent resident here and even then the wait is 3-4 months. We've contacted several doctors with no response, but I'm sure if we just go to a pharmaceutical company they'll just go "sure here's some schedule-II drugs, how many and what level do you need?"

My dad really doesn't care about "MOAR CHOICES" he wants to have the medicine he needs to function day to day.
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trdl23 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/healthcare-democrats-booing-na-na-na-good-bye-singing/index.html

This is the literal definition of hubris

Hey, something we agree on.

This is actually a part of why we lost.

Agreed

Democrats suck
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Jakyl25 posted...

trdl23 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/healthcare-democrats-booing-na-na-na-good-bye-singing/index.html

This is the literal definition of hubris

Hey, something we agree on.

This is actually a part of why we lost.

Agreed

Democrats suck

It's kind of weird how much the people on the left here hate their own party whereas very few here on the right feel the same.
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TheRock1525 posted...

It's kind of weird how much the people on the left here hate their own party whereas very few here on the right feel the same.

Liberals are fucking great at letting their idea of perfect be the enemy of good
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TheRock1525 posted...

It's kind of weird how much the people on the left here hate their own party whereas very few here on the right feel the same.

"republicans fall in line" etc.
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I think it's the more of the issue of the weird flexibility of conservatism. It's an ideology that seems to have no groundwork beyond "because it's what the Republicans do."
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Like Ulti is the living embodiment of it. He thinks a bill that has no chance of passing is absolutely awful, then the exact same bill with minor changes is amazing because it actually could get passed. You could argue it's exclusive to Ulti, but look at massive shifts into stuff like views on Russia which stayed largely the same with Dems but massively changed with Republicans after the leaks.
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TheRock1525 posted...

It's kind of weird how much the people on the left here hate their own party whereas very few here on the right feel the same.

The Democratic Party is not by any stretch of the imagination "my" party (it's much too far to the right for that). It's just the only show in town, thanks to first past the post.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

It's kind of weird how much the people on the left here hate their own party whereas very few here on the right feel the same.

Liberals are fucking great at letting their idea of perfect be the enemy of good

It's tough when the "good" already thinks it's perfect and tries to trap us by the two party system
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I don't actually like the democratic party, and this is just another good example of why

I am anti-GOP, and only anti-GOP, that is my only real stance

It's like, we tell Ulti stop caring about Hillary, but then Hillary HERSELF is still out there getting major airtime making excuses for her entitled campaign failure.

It's SO FRUSTRATING
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Hillary needs to stop making excuses and just go the fuck away, and I say that as someone who actively supported her

I feel like any argument she makes is countered immediately by "You didn't make one campaign stop in Wisconsin"
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Democrats lost 1043 seats under Obama, lost every level of government, and start singing when losing a health care vote.

These people are so hilariously stupid and out of touch, and when CNN of all people calls the democrats out you know these people are complete idiots.

Reminder -- democrats still think George Bush is president, think islands can capsize, think Putin invaded Korea, and sing after losing a vote as if they won something.

All joking aside, this is quite literally why they keep losing elections. They stopped being about "the party of the people" a long time ago, and the final nail in that coffin was openly dicking over Bernie Sanders in favor of a Wall Street whore. It goes against everything democrats used to believe in.

Slavery?
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