Current Events > "Labor is being paid first again. Shareholders get leftovers"

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Balrog0 05/01/17 8:03:57 PM #1:	https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/4/29/15471634/american-airlines-raise American Airlines agreed this week to do something nice for its employees and arguably foresighted for its business by giving flight attendants and pilots a preemptive raise, in order to close a gap that had opened up between their compensation and the compensation paid by rival airlines Delta and United. Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”... JP Morgan’s Jamie Baker was even more scathing than Crissey. "We are troubled by AAL's wealth transfer of nearly $1 billion to its labor groups,” he wrote, suggesting that the move was not just contestable as a matter of business strategy, but somehow obviously illegitimate. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878288139] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/4/29/15471634/american-airlines-raise American Airlines agreed this week to do something nice for its employees and arguably foresighted for its business by giving flight attendants and pilots a preemptive raise, in order to close a gap that had opened up between their compensation and the compensation paid by rival airlines Delta and United. Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”... JP Morgan’s Jamie Baker was even more scathing than Crissey. "We are troubled by AAL's wealth transfer of nearly $1 billion to its labor groups,” he wrote, suggesting that the move was not just contestable as a matter of business strategy, but somehow obviously illegitimate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SGT_Conti 05/01/17 8:08:20 PM #3:	Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? --- "I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." <cite>SGT_Conti posted [p:878288461] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ZombiePelican 05/01/17 8:09:51 PM #4:	Godnorgosh posted... Balrog0 posted... We are troubled by AAL's wealth transfer of nearly $1 billion to its labor groups,” he wrote, suggesting that the move was not just contestable as a matter of business strategy, but somehow obviously illegitimate. Bring back the fucking guillotine, damn. --- http://i.imgur.com/J1Fi0Cw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MCC79Ov.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iEMaJl1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/grqvrr9.png <cite>ZombiePelican posted [p:878288567] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Godnorgosh posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>We are troubled by AAL's wealth transfer of nearly $1 billion to its labor groups,” he wrote, suggesting that the move was not just contestable as a matter of business strategy, but somehow obviously illegitimate.</quote> Bring back the fucking guillotine, damn.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ryangrad 05/01/17 8:09:55 PM #5:	SGT_Conti posted... Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious. --- http://i.imgur.com/v3SzL0d.gif http://i.imgur.com/n8MtRqd.jpg <cite>Ryangrad posted [p:878288576] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>SGT_Conti posted...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 05/01/17 8:10:38 PM #6:	good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees. --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:878288639] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 05/01/17 8:11:44 PM #7:	Ryangrad posted... SGT_Conti posted... Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious. How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:878288723] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ryangrad posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SGT_Conti posted...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious.</quote> How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ElatedVenusaur 05/01/17 8:14:27 PM #8:	SK8T3R215 posted... Ryangrad posted... SGT_Conti posted... Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious. How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period. No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before. <cite>ElatedVenusaur posted [p:878288937] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ryangrad posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SGT_Conti posted...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious.</quote> How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period.</quote> No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 05/01/17 8:16:56 PM #9:	Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:878289081] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:17:49 PM #10:	ElatedVenusaur posted... SK8T3R215 posted... Ryangrad posted... SGT_Conti posted... Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious. How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period. No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before. I think, reading the analysis, the problem is less about what it is going to do in the short-term and more about the long-term implications of a company renegotiating with unions prior to their contract being up. "Unfortunately the American move today has emboldened unions probably across the entire space. It's led them to believe you can come back mid-contract [and] ask for whatever you want," Baker said on CNBC's "Halftime Report" Tuesday. "And that in turn makes that march toward higher multiples, not impossible, but a little bit more challenging." --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289142] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>ElatedVenusaur posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ryangrad posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SGT_Conti posted...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious.</quote> How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period.</quote> No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before.</quote> I think, reading the analysis, the problem is less about what it is going to do in the short-term and more about the long-term implications of a company renegotiating with unions prior to their contract being up. "Unfortunately the American move today has emboldened unions probably across the entire space. It's led them to believe you can come back mid-contract [and] ask for whatever you want," Baker said on CNBC's "Halftime Report" Tuesday. "And that in turn makes that march toward higher multiples, not impossible, but a little bit more challenging."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CruelBuffalo 05/01/17 8:17:58 PM #11:	Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. Great analysis. <cite>CruelBuffalo posted [p:878289147] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> Great analysis.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:18:18 PM #12:	Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. I'm pretty sure it's a little more complicated than that, but please elaborate Mal_Fet --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289165] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> I'm pretty sure it's a little more complicated than that, but please elaborate Mal_Fet</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 05/01/17 8:18:24 PM #13:	ElatedVenusaur posted... SK8T3R215 posted... Ryangrad posted... SGT_Conti posted... Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea? Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious. How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period. No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before. Well that is what I said as they can't reinvest or distribute that, and now they have to factor in additional expenses in their valuation models which drove the price down. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:878289168] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>ElatedVenusaur posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ryangrad posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SGT_Conti posted...</cite> <quote>Doesn't labour normally get paid first? Like, that's the idea?</quote> Yes. As they should. This reaction is hilarious.</quote> How? Shareholders are annoyed that they are giving raises prior to their contracts being up instead of either reinvesting or distributing that amount over the upcoming period.</quote> No, they're just mad because they'll make marginally less money now relative to before.</quote> Well that is what I said as they can't reinvest or distribute that, and now they have to factor in additional expenses in their valuation models which drove the price down.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 05/01/17 8:19:07 PM #14:	Happy May Day --- an aspirin the size of the sun. <cite>Antifar posted [p:878289226] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>Happy May Day</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wah_wah_wah 05/01/17 8:19:56 PM #15:	Balrog0 posted... Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. I'm pretty sure it's a little more complicated than that, but please elaborate Mal_Fet He's not very good at that <cite>wah_wah_wah posted [p:878289294] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> I'm pretty sure it's a little more complicated than that, but please elaborate Mal_Fet</quote> He's not very good at that</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 05/01/17 8:20:09 PM #17:	SK8T3R215 posted... Well that is what I said as they can't reinvest or distribute that, and now they have to factor in additional expenses in their valuation models which drove the price down. I really think the short-term implications here are much less important than anything else. Unless you're saying this adds uncertainty to their models because that is true. But I don't think the main worry is about the immediate cost increase of labor --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289312] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote>Well that is what I said as they can't reinvest or distribute that, and now they have to factor in additional expenses in their valuation models which drove the price down.</quote> I really think the short-term implications here are much less important than anything else. Unless you're saying this adds uncertainty to their models because that is true. But I don't think the main worry is about the immediate cost increase of labor</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZombiePelican 05/01/17 8:20:37 PM #18:	Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. So a few rich assholes can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fucking river --- http://i.imgur.com/J1Fi0Cw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MCC79Ov.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iEMaJl1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/grqvrr9.png <cite>ZombiePelican posted [p:878289339] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> So a few rich assholes can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fucking river</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:22:28 PM #19:	to me the fact taht this is being considered separate from an investment is kinda interesting you have to keep your wages competitive even when unions aren't telling you to directly --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289459] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>to me the fact taht this is being considered separate from an investment is kinda interesting you have to keep your wages competitive even when unions aren't telling you to directly</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 05/01/17 8:23:19 PM #20:	ZombiePelican posted... Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. So a few rich assholes can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fucking river Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:878289502] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>ZombiePelican posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work.</quote> So a few rich assholes can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fucking river</quote> Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solar_Crimson 05/01/17 8:23:38 PM #21:	It's hard to feel sympathy for the shareholders. --- http://i.imgur.com/wKOoZkP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/mipFVFw.png http://backloggery.com/SolarCrimson <cite>Solar_Crimson posted [p:878289522] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>It's hard to feel sympathy for the shareholders.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:24:04 PM #22:	Mal_Fet posted... Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works. you've definitely shown me how much you understand itt --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289558] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works.</quote> you've definitely shown me how much you understand itt</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 05/01/17 8:24:16 PM #23:	DuranOfForcena posted... yeah, they might actually be forced to sell one of their vacation homes in order to maintain their lifestyle oh, the humanity You obviously have no idea how analysts value companies. Balrog0 posted... I really think the short-term implications here are much less important than anything else. Unless you're saying this adds uncertainty to their models because that is true. But I don't think the main worry is about the immediate cost increase of labor I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:878289571] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote>yeah, they might actually be forced to sell one of their vacation homes in order to maintain their lifestyle oh, the humanity</quote> You obviously have no idea how analysts value companies. <cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I really think the short-term implications here are much less important than anything else. Unless you're saying this adds uncertainty to their models because that is true. But I don't think the main worry is about the immediate cost increase of labor</quote> I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
3rd_Best_Master 05/01/17 8:25:17 PM #24:	Mal_Fet posted... ZombiePelican posted... Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. So a few rich a****s can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fing river Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works. How many posts like this are you going to make until you just explain what you're talking about? --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2 <cite>3rd_Best_Master posted [p:878289634] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ZombiePelican posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote> Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. </quote> So a few rich a***s can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a f*ing river</quote> Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works.</quote> How many posts like this are you going to make until you just explain what you're talking about?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
butthole666 05/01/17 8:27:56 PM #25:	Capitalism is the greatest plague mankind has ever faced. --- "Kenan & Kel is what made me realize I wasn't racist." ~ NewportBox100s <cite>butthole666 posted [p:878289825] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>Capitalism is the greatest plague mankind has ever faced.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:28:22 PM #26:	a smaller share of americans have any moeny invested in the stock market than ever http://www.gallup.com/poll/190883/half-americans-own-stocks-matching-record-low.aspx Although Americans in all income groups are less likely to have stock investments now than before the Great Recession, middle-class Americans have been the most likely to flee the market. Nearly three in four middle-class Americans, with annual household incomes ranging from $30,000 to $74,999, said they invested money in the stock market in 2007. Today, only half report having stock investments. This 22-percentage-point drop is more than double the changes seen in stock investing among higher and lower income groups. only 50% of those making between 30k and 75k have money in the stock market, but 80% of those making more than 75k a year do --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878289850] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>a smaller share of americans have any moeny invested in the stock market than ever http://www.gallup.com/poll/190883/half-americans-own-stocks-matching-record-low.aspx Although Americans in all income groups are less likely to have stock investments now than before the Great Recession, middle-class Americans have been the most likely to flee the market. Nearly three in four middle-class Americans, with annual household incomes ranging from $30,000 to $74,999, said they invested money in the stock market in 2007. Today, only half report having stock investments. This 22-percentage-point drop is more than double the changes seen in stock investing among higher and lower income groups. only 50% of those making between 30k and 75k have money in the stock market, but 80% of those making more than 75k a year do</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wah_wah_wah 05/01/17 8:29:20 PM #27:	3rd_Best_Master posted... Mal_Fet posted... ZombiePelican posted... Mal_Fet posted... Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. So a few rich a****s can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a fing river Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works. How many posts like this are you going to make until you just explain what you're talking about? He seriously never does it. People like him operate only on appearances and not understanding. You might as well ignore him. <cite>wah_wah_wah posted [p:878289916] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>3rd_Best_Master posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ZombiePelican posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote> Anyone who doesn't know why what AA did was dumb had no idea what shares are or how they work. </quote> So a few rich a***s can't afford DirecTV on their 5th Yacht, cry me a f*ing river</quote> Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works.</quote> How many posts like this are you going to make until you just explain what you're talking about?</quote> He seriously never does it. People like him operate only on appearances and not understanding. You might as well ignore him.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 05/01/17 8:30:17 PM #28:	Balrog0 posted... Mal_Fet posted... Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works. you've definitely shown me how much you understand itt Why should I have to explain why it's a bad thing to screw over your company's shareholders when none of you can conceptualize anything more complicated than "lol fuck them rich folks with their portfolios n sheit"? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:878289986] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Right, because everyone who invested in stocks is a zillionaire. Christ, none of you have any clue at all how the stock market works.</quote> you've definitely shown me how much you understand itt</quote> Why should I have to explain why it's a bad thing to screw over your company's shareholders when none of you can conceptualize anything more complicated than "lol fuck them rich folks with their portfolios n sheit"?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:30:44 PM #29:	SK8T3R215 posted... I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling. right but the bigger issue analysts have is that it opens the door on unions being able to perpetually raise the price of labor, which increases the uncertainty and the risk profile of the investment which I'm saying is what they're more upset about than the near-term wage increase right now, even projecting it into the future -- renegotations like this make all of their projections less certain I'm sure both matter. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878290014] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote>I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling.</quote> right but the bigger issue analysts have is that it opens the door on unions being able to perpetually raise the price of labor, which increases the uncertainty and the risk profile of the investment which I'm saying is what they're more upset about than the near-term wage increase right now, even projecting it into the future -- renegotations like this make all of their projections less certain I'm sure both matter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tehzeldafanboy 05/01/17 8:31:18 PM #30:	Balrog0 posted... Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”... What the FUCK The people doing actual work and actually producing are being paid THEIR dues first??? Oy... --- <le anime sig> <cite>tehzeldafanboy posted [p:878290048] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”...</quote> What the FUCK The people doing actual work and actually producing are being paid THEIR dues first??? Oy...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:31:18 PM #31:	Mal_Fet posted... Why should I have to explain why it's a bad thing to screw over your company's shareholders when none of you can conceptualize anything more complicated than "lol fuck them rich folks with their portfolios n sheit"? isn't that exactly why you should explain it, if you believe that to be true? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878290050] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>Why should I have to explain why it's a bad thing to screw over your company's shareholders when none of you can conceptualize anything more complicated than "lol fuck them rich folks with their portfolios n sheit"?</quote> isn't that exactly why you should explain it, if you believe that to be true?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
QuantumScript 05/01/17 8:31:19 PM #32:	averagejoel posted... good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees. This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. There wouldn't be an economy if every company was like this. <cite>QuantumScript posted [p:878290056] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees.</quote> This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. There wouldn't be an economy if every company was like this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axiom 05/01/17 8:32:09 PM #33:	Lmao. Those people would probably use slave labor if they could get away with it <cite>Axiom posted [p:878290109] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>Lmao. Those people would probably use slave labor if they could get away with it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 05/01/17 8:32:56 PM #34:	Balrog0 posted... only 50% of those making between 30k and 75k have money in the stock market, but 80% of those making more than 75k a year do To say nothing about the gaps in how much they have invested. --- an aspirin the size of the sun. <cite>Antifar posted [p:878290173] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>only 50% of those making between 30k and 75k have money in the stock market, but 80% of those making more than 75k a year do </quote> To say nothing about the gaps in how much they have invested.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bandit_Keith 05/01/17 8:35:46 PM #35:	averagejoel posted... good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees. You mean you want them to... seize the means of production...? --- http://i.imgur.com/nq0Fn6a.jpg <cite>Bandit_Keith posted [p:878290385] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees.</quote> You mean you want them to... seize the means of production...?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 05/01/17 8:36:16 PM #36:	tehzeldafanboy posted... Balrog0 posted... Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”... What the FUCK The people doing actual work and actually producing are being paid THEIR dues first??? Oy... Because they already had a labor agreement in place. This is like coming home and having your wife say "Oh you know how we had that agreement in place to pay the gardener $100 a week? Well I decided to pay him $200 now because the neighbors were paying their gardener more." Shareholders were expecting a return based on the costs in place, now they have more expenses that lower their return on investments, and opens them up to basically having any future labor agreement be renegotiated in the middle of it by doing this. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:878290419] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>tehzeldafanboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>Wall Street freaked out, sending American shares plummeting. After all, this is capitalism and the capital owners are supposed to reap the rewards of business success. “This is frustrating. Labor is being paid first again,” wrote Citi analyst Kevin Crissey in a widely circulated note. “Shareholders get leftovers.”...</quote> What the FUCK The people doing actual work and actually producing are being paid THEIR dues first??? Oy...</quote> Because they already had a labor agreement in place. This is like coming home and having your wife say "Oh you know how we had that agreement in place to pay the gardener $100 a week? Well I decided to pay him $200 now because the neighbors were paying their gardener more." Shareholders were expecting a return based on the costs in place, now they have more expenses that lower their return on investments, and opens them up to basically having any future labor agreement be renegotiated in the middle of it by doing this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:36:54 PM #37:	Bandit_Keith posted... averagejoel posted... good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees. You mean you want them to... seize the means of production...? it's kinda weird when this term is applied to service industries imo let's seize the means of producing ... a flight from houston to orlando (but not the machinery or technology that makes it possible - we get that from another firm's coop) --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878290459] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Bandit_Keith posted...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>good. ideally, the company would be 100% owned by its employees.</quote> You mean you want them to... seize the means of production...?</quote> it's kinda weird when this term is applied to service industries imo let's seize the means of producing ... a flight from houston to orlando (but not the machinery or technology that makes it possible - we get that from another firm's coop)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 05/01/17 8:37:02 PM #38:	Balrog0 posted... SK8T3R215 posted... I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling. right but the bigger issue analysts have is that it opens the door on unions being able to perpetually raise the price of labor, which increases the uncertainty and the risk profile of the investment which I'm saying is what they're more upset about than the near-term wage increase right now, even projecting it into the future -- renegotations like this make all of their projections less certain I'm sure both matter. That is true. Also I wonder if the unions will factor this in when they negotiate in two years or if they will just say "The past is the past" and demand their usual increases on top of this. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:878290469] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote>I mean it affects short term and long term valuation as now their upcoming earnings will be lower and forecasting this over the longer term they will have to factor in larger labor costs so the return on their shares will be lower, thus the price falling.</quote> right but the bigger issue analysts have is that it opens the door on unions being able to perpetually raise the price of labor, which increases the uncertainty and the risk profile of the investment which I'm saying is what they're more upset about than the near-term wage increase right now, even projecting it into the future -- renegotations like this make all of their projections less certain I'm sure both matter.</quote> That is true. Also I wonder if the unions will factor this in when they negotiate in two years or if they will just say "The past is the past" and demand their usual increases on top of this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
voldothegr8 05/01/17 8:37:52 PM #39:	Balrog0 posted... Wall Street This is why we can't have nice things. --- Oda break tracker 2017- 3 (2) Super Mario Maker Profile: 1237-0000-0073-02FE <cite>voldothegr8 posted [p:878290525] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>Wall Street</quote> This is why we can't have nice things.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:38:01 PM #40:	SK8T3R215 posted... Because they already had a labor agreement in place. This is like coming home and having your wife say "Oh you know how we had that agreement in place to pay the gardener $100 a week? Well I decided to pay him $200 now because the neighbors were paying their gardener more." Shareholders were expecting a return based on the costs in place, now they have more expenses that lower their return on investments, and opens them up to basically having any future labor agreement be renegotiated in the middle of it by doing this. I mean it's more like $100 to $105 and/or $108 but I do take your point --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878290533] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote>Because they already had a labor agreement in place. This is like coming home and having your wife say "Oh you know how we had that agreement in place to pay the gardener $100 a week? Well I decided to pay him $200 now because the neighbors were paying their gardener more." Shareholders were expecting a return based on the costs in place, now they have more expenses that lower their return on investments, and opens them up to basically having any future labor agreement be renegotiated in the middle of it by doing this.</quote> I mean it's more like $100 to $105 and/or $108 but I do take your point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 05/01/17 8:44:37 PM #41:	I expected this to be an Antifar topic --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:878290941] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>I expected this to be an Antifar topic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scoobydoobydont 05/01/17 8:46:02 PM #42:	My heart breaks for the shareholders. --- http://i.imgur.com/Lz9KiZA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eUg3mP6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MK8vbmw.png https://i.imgur.com/DNvL8q5.jpg <cite>scoobydoobydont posted [p:878291027] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>My heart breaks for the shareholders.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 05/01/17 8:46:04 PM #43:	emblem boy posted... I expected this to be an Antifar topic I already made a topic about this dope. --- an aspirin the size of the sun. <cite>Antifar posted [p:878291029] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>I expected this to be an Antifar topic</quote> I already made a topic about this dope.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:55:32 PM #44:	Antifar posted... emblem boy posted... I expected this to be an Antifar topic I already made a topic about this dope. Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878291648] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>I expected this to be an Antifar topic</quote> I already made a topic about this dope.</quote> Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Annihilated 05/01/17 8:57:16 PM #45:	Balrog0 posted... Antifar posted... emblem boy posted... I expected this to be an Antifar topic I already made a topic about this dope. Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything It's not in your topic either... <cite>Annihilated posted [p:878291757] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>I expected this to be an Antifar topic</quote> I already made a topic about this dope.</quote> Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything</quote> It's not in your topic either...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 8:59:32 PM #46:	I'm not saying it was a thorough search --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878291929] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>I'm not saying it was a thorough search</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 05/01/17 9:00:37 PM #47:	Balrog0 posted... Antifar posted... emblem boy posted... I expected this to be an Antifar topic I already made a topic about this dope. Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything Ah, it's already purged, and I don't mind seeing this discussed again --- an aspirin the size of the sun. <cite>Antifar posted [p:878291990] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>I expected this to be an Antifar topic</quote> I already made a topic about this dope.</quote> Sorry, I searched for airline and didn't see anything</quote> Ah, it's already purged, and I don't mind seeing this discussed again</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
g980 05/01/17 9:28:28 PM #48:	wow that's an incredibly smug article, I personally hate the author. "This good event that happened naturally within a system I dislike somehow proves the system is bad" ??? if the workers had the political capital to swing this then good on them I think it's misleading to say that this is paying labor before investors Labor is always paid before shareholders/lenders but since shareholders are taking on actual risk in the business, why shouldn't they be entitled to corresponding profits? Balrog your stats on investing seem suspect. Household income of under $75k is on the ass end of middle class, of course they aren't investing. All that said it was probably a smart move to keep wages competitive regardless of anything else --- These old bones live to learn her wanton ways: (I measure time by how a body sways). <cite>g980 posted [p:878293875] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>wow that's an incredibly smug article, I personally hate the author. "This good event that happened naturally within a system I dislike somehow proves the system is bad" ??? if the workers had the political capital to swing this then good on them I think it's misleading to say that this is paying labor before investors Labor is always paid before shareholders/lenders but since shareholders are taking on actual risk in the business, why shouldn't they be entitled to corresponding profits? Balrog your stats on investing seem suspect. Household income of under $75k is on the ass end of middle class, of course they aren't investing. All that said it was probably a smart move to keep wages competitive regardless of anything else</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 10:05:26 PM #49:	g980 posted... Balrog your stats on investing seem suspect. Household income of under $75k is on the ass end of middle class, of course they aren't investing Take it up with Gallup I think it seems reasonable considering this includes IRAs, 401ks, etc --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878296223] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote><cite>g980 posted...</cite> <quote>Balrog your stats on investing seem suspect. Household income of under $75k is on the ass end of middle class, of course they aren't investing</quote> Take it up with Gallup I think it seems reasonable considering this includes IRAs, 401ks, etc</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 05/01/17 10:09:53 PM #50:	And yeah to me it seems fairly straightforward why you'd want to do this, it is ultimately an investment in your business. I dunno man I'm not really taking a stance on the action, honestly, I don't care that much but I think people should keep an ear on how the corporate world thinks and talks about these issues --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:878296513] in "Labo... [t:75301085]...</cite> <quote>And yeah to me it seems fairly straightforward why you'd want to do this, it is ultimately an investment in your business. I dunno man I'm not really taking a stance on the action, honestly, I don't care that much but I think people should keep an ear on how the corporate world thinks and talks about these issues</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > "Labor is being paid first again. Shareholders get leftovers" (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > "Labor is being paid first again. Shareholders get leftovers"