Board 8 > Persona 5: Phantoms of Translation

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.personaproblems.com/

A localization and print editor by the name of Connor Krammer has put together a site looking at some of the issues with the game's translation. We previously had a thread here discussing some of these problems, but it was rather mud-slingy and this is a much more focused and insightful look at not just the issues in the game, but also a fresh perspective on the localization industry.

[...]

It features specific examples (with both the English and Japanese text) with clear commentary on the problems.

But the point isn't just to nitpick the game's script, or to say that it's complete trash and you're garbage for enjoying it.

The point seems to be to shine a light on the localization and translation industry itself. What game localization is, why it matters, and how we got where we are today. I think it's worth a read for anyone interested in how games transfer from Japanese to English, even if you're not interested in picking holes in Persona 5's localization specifically.

He starts by laying out a lot of things clearly for people who may not be familiar with the industry.

Credit to NeoGAF user TheSporkWithin for the post I shamelessly ripped word-for-word here. I'll note, I haven't played this game, so I don't have a horse in this race. It's probably a completely serviceable translation, of course. But apparently it's not pristine enough for at least someone.
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The game is massive, so mistakes were bound to happen.

that's all that really need to be said

no translation is ever perfect
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Jeff Zero, bringing the real content back to B8.

Miss these topics.
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ninkendo posted...

The game is massive, so mistakes were bound to happen.

that's all that really need to be said

no translation is ever perfect

It's fine if you don't care, but don't try to shut down conversation. Lots of good things wouldn't be done if we just let things be without talking about it, even if it's trivial.
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The game DEFINITELY has some grammatical issues, and some of the awkward sentences being read in complete seriousness with high quality voice acting is honestly pretty jarring. It wasn't constant and was, oddly, mostly found early on in the game.
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Definately has grammatical issues, huh.
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Oh man that very first one with the phone call bothered me so much that I thought it was intentional and was going to be related to some kind of twist.
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Definately has grammatical issues, huh.

That was playing off a joke from a previous topic, but I guess not enough people know about it for it to play <_<
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some of the adult characters dialogue in particular is maybe a little too literal in terms of translation but like if you watch anime you should be used to doing some mental conversions of what the translation is vs what the actual intent if the line is
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...This site is weird. While a lot of the grammar / flow errors are real and serious, I feel like they were struggling to get enough things to fit their "comprehension error" category; and a few minor mistakes along those lines are to be expected with a script of this length.
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ninkendo posted...

some of the adult characters dialogue in particular is maybe a little too literal in terms of translation but like if you watch anime you should be used to doing some mental conversions of what the translation is vs what the actual intent if the line is

This is exactly what happens when I play with Japanese audio, I have to imagine it's a bit more jank when playing the dub though.
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dowolf is the only guy here I want to hear from on this topic so I am glad he has contributed
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I noticed a couple errors here and there. In one part Futaba mixed up the order of what the text said which was a little odd. I think overall it's a pretty solid job despite not knowing Japanese myself. The amount of text in this game is massive and people might overlook that. Virtually every area has NPCs with dialogue that changes every couple days to a week, the news on TV is different each night and sometimes has a morning version that's different from the evening and lots of other little things so something was bound to be off here and there. It's amazing the level of effort they put into all the NPC chatter.

I am definitely going to check this
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I like that they're complaining that the TL is too literal. Definitely a problem with too many TLs nowadays.
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There are definitely some awkward lines and mistakes, especially early on, but this analysis seems very up it's own ass.
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The Mana Sword posted...

There are definitely some awkward lines and mistakes, especially early on, but this analysis seems very up it's own ass.

This.
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What a weird topic to make, if you don't care at all about persona 5.
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I'm only like five hours in and so far the translation seems pretty serviceable, but you can definitely see a difference between this localization and something like Ace Attorney's (e.g. dialogue here feels more stilted).
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There is definitely a lot of janky translation and straight up wrong/backwards stuff.

But this article made me realize how completely comfortable I am with that. It's like a different language that I have become fluent in through games and anime.

I do agree that it's straight up bad though, and VERY dangerous to think of it as "more authentic" or "more japanese" just because it's written in this weird pseudo-language.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm only like five hours in and so far the translation seems pretty serviceable, but you can definitely see a difference between this localization and something like Ace Attorney's (e.g. dialogue here feels more stilted).

AA floored me with how good the translation was. I mean the game is nearly 100% text so it better be good, but it's still so impressively natural.
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I mean there are definitely some mistakes, but you literally cannot escape having mistakes in a translation in some form or another, ESPECIALLY in a script this big. You can fine-tooth-comb it 20 times and you're still going to miss things. That's just how translation works.

Furthermore, while I agree with the sentiment of 'you have to convey the original intent as if it was written originally in that language' as a principal, that does NOT mean every line has to have perfect grammar. That's completely misconstruing what that adage means. It needs to get the same character development, scene mood, and plot points across as the creator intended.

Hell, most of those examples on the site aren't even strictly translation examples, and are stuff you find in purely English works that only people seriously scrutinizing something catches because the average person reading it 'auto corrects' the mistake because they're so familiar with the language and get what its trying to convey through context. That doesn't mean the mistake isn't there and if this were an English test it'd probably not do very well, but it IS being incredibly pedantic about it.

Frankly I think whoever made the site is just, well

The Mana Sword posted...

very up it's own ass.

Basically that, yeah.


EDIT: It is totally not 'more authentic' or 'more japanese' though, yeah. That's just fanboys fanboying.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm only like five hours in and so far the translation seems pretty serviceable, but you can definitely see a difference between this localization and something like Ace Attorney's (e.g. dialogue here feels more stilted).

More translations should be like Ace Attorney's. Well-known fact. And the stock translation of "sasuga," shikataganai," "toha," etc. are really bad.

But I agree the site is definitely up its own ass, and seem to be struggling for examples. I would strongly argue that several of the things they cited (comprehension "error" III, the "chikaku, okkei" one, etc.) are perfectly fine as-is.
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The translation is very literal. I'm playing with JPN audio and am very glad it's literal. This type of game benefits from a literal translation. AA was full of puns which are near impossible to translate without translator notes.

Perhaps it's because I've watched a shit ton of anime but I listen to the spoken dialogue before reading and it's usually what I expect it to be in this game.
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How is the translation when compared to Persona 3/4?

Also translations that take some liberties here and then tend to be much better than those that don't.
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It's the same as other personas but with a few more blatant errors probably
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Confession: I was bothered when, in Persona 3, a character said "speak in plain English!" when something was confusing to them.

In Persona 5, the fact that they refer to themselves as speaking Japanese is refreshing.

I just wish they made it a bit more obvious when the characters were actually speaking real English as opposed to translated Japanese. Would've made some more of the jokes funnier.
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tcaz2 posted...

I mean there are definitely some mistakes, but you literally cannot escape having mistakes in a translation in some form or another, ESPECIALLY in a script this big. You can fine-tooth-comb it 20 times and you're still going to miss things. That's just how translation works.

I don't think this is true at all.

I like to think Xenoblade Chronicles X was mostly good.

From what I've seen of P5, it's not a fine-tooth problem, but more of an overall problem of vision.

I see the most complaints about Morgana, her speaking mannerisms are all over the place.
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GranzonEx posted...

This type of game benefits from a literal translation.

I dunno. I don't think anything besides language textbooks really benefits from literal translation.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I see the most complaints about Morgana, her speaking mannerisms are all over the place.

His*
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BowserCuffs posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I see the most complaints about Morgana, her speaking mannerisms are all over the place.

His*

Whoops.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I see the most complaints about Morgana, her speaking mannerisms are all over the place.

His*

Whoops.

I think everyone makes that mistake because of his name.
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BowserCuffs posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I see the most complaints about Morgana, her speaking mannerisms are all over the place.

His*

Cars*
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I don't have the game, but this is a little disappointing given how much the game was delayed by. I guess it's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things as it's still gotten rave reviews from everyone.
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Are the mistakes even 0.1% of the games text?

If not I don't care.

If so I still don't care
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They're just janky dialogue
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I'm maybe 40% through and haven't noticed any translation errors, and there certainly haven't been any that pulled me out of the game

stuff feels well tailored for English
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Like I guess the stupid characters use crappy grammar sometimes
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I've noticed it a bit, but it's nothing that has made me like the game less

And certainly nothing that feels like a "failure"
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I just wonder what "The Cake Knight Rises" was originally.
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I guess it can't be helped.
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It's pretty dumb that they counted the 07734 thing as a 'mistranslation' because it doesn't happen to work with that particular font. That seems pretty nitpicky.

Also they use the word problematic 5 times in a 100 hour game.
And "As Expected" seven times over the course of a year.
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Like sure there are nitpicks that you can make but there undeniably are bad, and completely wrong translations in the game. When Sojiro says you're a part timer when he meant to say you're not, etc
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Colegreen_c12 posted...

Are the mistakes even 0.1% of the games text?

If not I don't care.

If so I still don't care

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GANON1025 posted...

What a weird topic to make, if you don't care at all about persona 5.

A curious, incorrect deduction.
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