Current Events > Breaking: Shooting at San Bernadino Elementary School

(+) Yeah! (+)

Malcrasternus posted...

ManSpread posted...

making it more difficult to acquire firearms legally takes away no rights

See, people say this all the time, but never actually say what those measures are.

And nine times out of ten it's because all they can think of is confiscation.

This happened in California. Second only to New York in terms of how restrictive the gun laws are.

im a registered democrat living in eastern TN thats pretty pro 2A with an uncle that owns a gun store, im well aware of the process you have to go through to buy a gun

if you can pass a background check you're good to go

it doesnt prevent someone mentally unstable from legally acquiring a firearm and shooting a place up (as rare as this happens) nor is any form of training required to buy a firearm

getting a drivers license is a somewhat rigorous process, why is gun ownership excluded from this?

(take note that i agree guns themselves are ultimately not a problem but rather the ease of access heinous individuals have available to them, both legally and illegally)
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TheVipaGTS posted...

Being reported as a murder-suicide. No kids hurt but unfortunately 2 or 3 adults are.

I'm glad none of the kids were hurt.
Fuck the piece of shit that did this. At the very least, inmates are gonna kill him.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

We have a gang problem.

Strange. I wonder what gangs have to do with this shooting.
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Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

So how many more before the US finally gets the point that guns are a problem? Or will you just keep letting this happen again and again and again and again?

It doesn't happen again and again and again and again. And you're being dishonest. Stick to your own country's laws. There are thousands of towns where guns are widespread, and where mass shootings are far less common than deadly car crashes. Guns are not the problem.

So 15 in 2016 alone is not again and again and again and again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s


Americas gun fetish is so fucking backwards.
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ManSpread posted...

it doesnt prevent someone mentally unstable from legally acquiring a firearm and shooting a place up (as rare as this happens) nor is any form of training required to buy a firearm

the vast majority of mentally ill people who have guns are not violent.

ManSpread posted...

getting a drivers license is a somewhat rigorous process, why is gun ownership excluded from this?

owning firearms for self defense is a right. driving is not. driving is also far more complicated than properly managing a firearm. pretty simple concept.
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Dark_SilverX posted...

They are terrorist attacks. Just because they're citizens doesnt mean it isnt classified as one.

It's a bit pedantic to argue this but this would be more a shooting incident rather than a terrorist attack. And I'm pretty sure mass shooting would define 4 or more victims, so if this is over then it'd be classified as that.

Logos posted...

Being a part of a large public shooting is as probable as being a part of an Islamic terror attack. That doesn't justify taking away people's self defense rights.

No, it absolutely isn't as probable here. I don't give a damn how you feel politically, there have been by far more incidents of mass shootings in this country than Islamic terror attacks. This isn't to say one is a bigger problem than the other, because both are awful, but the stats alone tell you different.

Also I'm quite certain the FBI doesn't include gang shootings in their data, but I may be wrong with that one

spikethedevil posted...

Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

So how many more before the US finally gets the point that guns are a problem? Or will you just keep letting this happen again and again and again and again?

It doesn't happen again and again and again and again. And you're being dishonest. Stick to your own country's laws. There are thousands of towns where guns are widespread, and where mass shootings are far less common than deadly car crashes. Guns are not the problem.

So 15 in 2016 alone is not again and again and again and again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s


Americas gun fetish is so fucking backwards.

far more people died from car crashes in a single year than the entirety of school shootings. given the tens of thousands of schools, many of which are in areas where gun ownership is normal, you'd expect to see far more school shootings if it was actually a problem.

the number of school shootings is an outlier, not a norm by any sane measurement.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

We have a gang problem.

Strange. I wonder what gangs have to do with this shooting.

Nothing.

And after we had 20+ children murdered by someone with a mental problem and the gun nuts refuse to admit anything is wrong there is literally nothing that will be done.

The Great Muta 22 posted...

No, it absolutely isn't as probable here. I don't give a damn how you feel politically, there have been by far more incidents of mass shootings in this country than Islamic terror attacks. This isn't to say one is a bigger problem than the other, because both are awful, but the stats alone tell you different.

Also I'm quite certain the FBI doesn't include gang shootings in their data, but I may be wrong with that one

the gun death metrics tend to include gang shootings in their data. if you look at just the public mass shooting sprees, they're incredibly uncommon. far less common than shootings, and about as common as islamic terrorism in europe.

yet liberals constantly make the argument that islamic terrorism in europe is so uncommon and improbable that it's not statistically a problem. it's the same with mass shooting sprees in america. both are statistically irrelevant. meaning you're basically guaranteed to never be a victim of either.
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Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

So how many more before the US finally gets the point that guns are a problem? Or will you just keep letting this happen again and again and again and again?

It doesn't happen again and again and again and again. And you're being dishonest. Stick to your own country's laws. There are thousands of towns where guns are widespread, and where mass shootings are far less common than deadly car crashes. Guns are not the problem.

So 15 in 2016 alone is not again and again and again and again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s


Americas gun fetish is so fucking backwards.

far more people died from car crashes in a single year than the entirety of school shootings. given the tens of thousands of schools, many of which are in areas where gun ownership is normal, you'd expect to see far more school shootings if it was actually a problem.

the number of school shootings is an outlier, not a norm by any sane measurement.

Terrible analogy. You need to compare malicious car deaths with malicious gun deaths

CruelBuffalo posted...

And after we had 20+ children murdered by someone with a mental problem and the gun nuts refuse to admit anything is wrong there is literally nothing that will be done.

he could've easily made a home made bomb or hijacked a truck. we've seen cases of both where the murderer killed 70+ people that way. you don't need a gun if you want to kill people. guns are not the problem.
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Logos posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

No, it absolutely isn't as probable here. I don't give a damn how you feel politically, there have been by far more incidents of mass shootings in this country than Islamic terror attacks. This isn't to say one is a bigger problem than the other, because both are awful, but the stats alone tell you different.

Also I'm quite certain the FBI doesn't include gang shootings in their data, but I may be wrong with that one

the gun death metrics tend to include gang shootings in their data. if you look at just the public mass shooting sprees, they're incredibly uncommon. far less common than shootings, and about as common as islamic terrorism in europe.

yet liberals constantly make the argument that islamic terrorism in europe is so uncommon and improbable that it's not statistically a problem. it's the same with mass shooting sprees in america. both are statistically irrelevant. meaning you're basically guaranteed to never be a victim of either.

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

CruelBuffalo posted...

Terrible analogy. You need to compare malicious car deaths with malicious gun deaths

in that case, there are places where you're more likely to die because of malicious driving than malicious shooting. time to ban vehicles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

In America you're more likely to die from a DUI than from being in a mass shooting

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html
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CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.
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ManSpread posted...

getting a drivers license is a somewhat rigorous process, why is gun ownership excluded from this?

Because owning and driving a car is a privilege, and has many nuances and rules to follow.

Owning a gun is a right, and there are only four simple guides that when followed, make it impossible to hurt anyone. And yet still, there are places in the country that will deny your right to carry a firearm, if they deem your reason to want to carry isn't good enough. Like, California, for example.

But of course, you have an uncle that owns a gunshop. You should know this already.
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Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Logos posted...

spikethedevil posted...

So how many more before the US finally gets the point that guns are a problem? Or will you just keep letting this happen again and again and again and again?

It doesn't happen again and again and again and again. And you're being dishonest. Stick to your own country's laws. There are thousands of towns where guns are widespread, and where mass shootings are far less common than deadly car crashes. Guns are not the problem.

So 15 in 2016 alone is not again and again and again and again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s


Americas gun fetish is so fucking backwards.

far more people died from car crashes in a single year than the entirety of school shootings. given the tens of thousands of schools, many of which are in areas where gun ownership is normal, you'd expect to see far more school shootings if it was actually a problem.

the number of school shootings is an outlier, not a norm by any sane measurement.

More people die from car crashes than gang shootings. Does that mean gang shootings aren't a problem? Many more people shoot themselves than others. Does that make gun murder not a problem?
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Malcrasternus posted...

ManSpread posted...

getting a drivers license is a somewhat rigorous process, why is gun ownership excluded from this?

Because owning and driving a car is a privilege, and has many nuances and rules to follow.

Owning a gun is a right, and there are only four simple guides that when followed, make it impossible to hurt anyone. And yet still, there are places in the country that will deny your right to carry a firearm, if they deem your reason to want to carry isn't good enough. Like, California, for example.

But of course, you have an uncle that owns a gunshop. You should know this already.

a safety is only designed to fail?
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ManSpread posted...

if i can still legally acquire a firearm but the process is more difficult how does that infringe upon my rights?

"A right delayed is a right denied." Of course you don't care what Dr. King has to say.
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hockeybub89 posted...

More people die from car crashes than gang shootings. Does that mean gang shootings aren't a problem?

gang shootings are a crime. therefore they're a problem. solution: eliminate gangs.
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

You're the one who brought up the analogy not me. So YOU cannot have it both ways.

I'm not against people owning firearms, I'm in favor of more required training though.

hockeybub89 posted...

Many more people shoot themselves than others. Does that make gun murder not a problem?

Who cares? Why should someone's rights be stripped away just because someone else uses a gun to shoot themselves? People who want to kill themselves will always find a way to do it, even if guns are banned.
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

Ok. I'll admit it. Now you have to call the travel ban stupid.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

You're the one who brought up the analogy not me. So YOU cannot have it both ways.

I'm not against people owning firearms, I'm in favor of more required training though.

I'm prepared to admit that it's statistically unlikely to ever encounter an Islamic terror attack. If you're prepared to admit that gun bans are stupid because mass shootings are very rare.
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Terrible analogy. You need to compare malicious car deaths with malicious gun deaths

in that case, there are places where you're more likely to die because of malicious driving than malicious shooting. time to ban vehicles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

In America you're more likely to die from a DUI than from being in a mass shooting

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

DUI is not malicious intent try again.

Travel Bans and Gun Bans are both stupid.

hockeybub89 posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

Ok. I'll admit it. Now you have to call the travel ban stupid.

When was the last time a bunch of guns got together to plan a terrorist attack? Until they do, let's stop with the idiotic comparisons of people to inanimate objects.
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Oh wait just kidding, one is common sense, the other is nonsense.

Logos posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Many more people shoot themselves than others. Does that make gun murder not a problem?

Who cares? Why should someone's rights be stripped away just because someone else uses a gun to shoot themselves? People who want to kill themselves will always find a way to do it, even if guns are banned.

You said mass shootings aren't a problem because there are less of them than other bad things. Murder is not a problem compared to suicide. Once again, I said nothing about gun bans.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

DUI is not malicious intent try again.

yeah it is. we can split hairs if you want to, but the semantics are not worth pursuing. and nice job ignoring the attack in Nice, or the recent vehicle attacks in other countries.

you're sticking to your narrative rather than facts. and you know it.
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Gun laws are already far too restrictive.
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The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

Ok. I'll admit it. Now you have to call the travel ban stupid.

When was the last time a bunch of guns got together to plan a terrorist attack? Until they do, let's stop with the idiotic comparisons of people to inanimate objects.

You mean like people with medical conditions compared to burning houses?
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

So the travel ban is stupid? Got it.

only if you're also prepared to admit that gun bans are also stupid. :) can't have it both ways, even though i know you love being a hypocritical leftist sometimes.

You're the one who brought up the analogy not me. So YOU cannot have it both ways.

I'm not against people owning firearms, I'm in favor of more required training though.

I'm prepared to admit that it's statistically unlikely to ever encounter an Islamic terror attack. If you're prepared to admit that gun bans are stupid because mass shootings are very rare.

"Gun bans" is incredibly vague statement. I'm in favor of required training to own guns. For "gun bans" I wouldnt be opposed to bans or incredibly tight restrictions on large capacity magazines and that's something they should be determined by what's needed for hunters

That's pretty sad. SB has always been a rough place to live I wish more businesses and governments invested in the area to make it more like LA or at least Palm Springs.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

"Gun bans" is incredibly vague statement. I'm in favor of required training to own guns. For "gun bans" I wouldnt be opposed to bans or incredibly tight restrictions on large capacity magazines and that's something they should be determined by what's needed for hunters

what does a magazine ban do to deter criminals? it's extremely easy to modify a magazine or make your own extended magazine if you really want to. the only thing that law would do is restrict people who are trying to defend themselves in their home. it's a prime example of a fucking stupid regulation. how the fuck are you supporting it.

and are you also in favor of restrictions on which consenting adults can get married? should we have a training period and restrictions on how married they can be?
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

DUI is not malicious intent try again.

yeah it is. we can split hairs if you want to, but the semantics are not worth pursuing. and nice job ignoring the attack in Nice, or the recent vehicle attacks in other countries.

you're sticking to your narrative rather than facts. and you know it.

No it's not. It's manslaughter.

BoobsAreMurder posted...

That's pretty sad. SB has always been a rough place to live I wish more businesses and governments invested in the area to make it more like LA or at least Palm Springs.

But didn't you see the recent topic where liberals are complaining about Gentrification? Look it up via the search bar, it's hilarious.
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Logos posted...

trying to defend themselves in their home.

From what?

Why can't people have missles? Bazookas are firearms why can't I have that?

Why can't I have a machine gun mounted to the roof of my house?

CruelBuffalo posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

DUI is not malicious intent try again.

yeah it is. we can split hairs if you want to, but the semantics are not worth pursuing. and nice job ignoring the attack in Nice, or the recent vehicle attacks in other countries.

you're sticking to your narrative rather than facts. and you know it.

No it's not. It's manslaughter.

i don't give drunk drivers the leeway necessary to call it anything other than malicious intent. yeah, you're right if we stick to the semantics, but ultimately my point remains.
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Look another tragedy being used to talk about gun laws
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Onetrueking posted...

You are part of the problem not admitting we have a gun/mental health problem

We have a gang problem.

this.

over 95% of "mass shootings" are gang or drug related

13% of our population commits half of our murders, even more when you account that gangland murders have a low clearance rate.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Logos posted...

trying to defend themselves in their home.

From what?

Why can't people have missles? Bazookas are firearms why can't I have that?

Why can't I have a machine gun mounted to the roof of my house?

you saw the news story where the dude with the AR-15 had to defend himself and his parents from four home invaders, right? or the news story where the pregnant woman defended herself against three armed home invaders? or the hundreds of other similar stories?

you're being dishonest as fuck if you really cannot envision or think of at least one example where you might need a large magazine. and you're ignoring the fact that the magazine ban wouldn't deter criminals from breaking that law. it'd only deter law abiding citizens from exercising their right if they ever need to.
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Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Logos posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

DUI is not malicious intent try again.

yeah it is. we can split hairs if you want to, but the semantics are not worth pursuing. and nice job ignoring the attack in Nice, or the recent vehicle attacks in other countries.

you're sticking to your narrative rather than facts. and you know it.

No it's not. It's manslaughter.

i don't give drunk drivers the leeway necessary to call it anything other than malicious intent. yeah, you're right if we stick to the semantics, but ultimately my point remains.

No it's not. Drunk drivers are idiots but they are not TRYING to kill people.

A mass shooter is trying to kill people

A terrorist using a car to drive into a group of people is trying to kill people.

CruelBuffalo posted...

I wouldnt be opposed to bans or incredibly tight restrictions on large capacity magazines and that's something they should be determined by what's needed for hunters

Hunters don't need high capacity magazines. They try to take to the animal down in a single shot and will sometimes wait hours or the entire day for a good shot.
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large magazine bans are stupid
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ManSpread posted...

large magazine bans are stupid

they're not stupid, they're clearly protecting CruelBuffalo from having to think too hard, therefore they're good. we should ban large magazines.
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ManWithGun posted...

Look another tragedy being used to talk about gun laws

The wake of tragedies is the best time to talk about about preventing future tragedies. Too bad that winds up mostly being bickering masquerading as concern.
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I'll say what some gun proponents are afraid to admit.

Regardless of how effective some laws might be at mitigating it, there is an acceptable cost to having any right and freedom. Whether it's cars, guns, sky diving, ladders, scissors . . . it is in my opinion that we have not gone beyond what are acceptable losses for gun rights.
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Has the identity/background of the shooter been revealed yet? Was the shooter Muslim? Or was it another white person?
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DifferentialEquation posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

I wouldnt be opposed to bans or incredibly tight restrictions on large capacity magazines and that's something they should be determined by what's needed for hunters

Hunters don't need high capacity magazines. They try to take to the animal down in a single shot and will sometimes wait hours or the entire day for a good shot.

I know that was my point

ChopinList posted...

Has the identity/background of the shooter been revealed yet? Was the shooter Muslim? Or was it another white person?

black iirc

no ruling on being Muslim or not i think
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