Board 8 > Mercenaries 4 Mafia Topic 7: If You Want Peacetime, Prepare For Wartime

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Vote: Tony

Cool counterbore with no explanation my man, lol.

Anyway, at this point I'm possivire Death is Town, especially with how hard Ben is defending him.

Also, you ignored my post asking you to explain why you're so SURE I'm scum. So please do that. I don't believe your suspicion on me at all. It feels really forced
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Going to start at Topic 5, Page 8, as I feel like that's around where the pleasantries for Day 2 end. This is kinda stream of consciousness-- possibly not useful but no reason not to post what I was noting down.

(Topic 5, page 8)

Kanzaris is "torn" between a vote on Death/Johnbobb. Says Tony's vote on Oddity is meaningless. Says jaded/johnbobb/death has "one has to be town." Also doesn't like Tony as town.
Scare hasn't liked Oddity but is very vague.
IGCD "might have found something significant on Oddity" but has no time to explore. Points out Oddity has not been consistent with what reads he "likes"

(topic 5, page 9)

Oddity "thinks Jaded is overwhelmed town" but won't commit. Leaves.
MZero tunnels Death. Leo and Menu don't think the "why would someone ask if their fakeclaim fits" argument makes sense. Menu thinks fakeclaim "makes some sense as town"
Johnbobb thinks Oddity needs to be harassed because "nothing has convinced him to get off Johnbobb"
Kanz thinks one of Tony and Death is "likely to be scum." Less strong wording than the set of 3 in the previous page post. Light slip gives indication both are town imo.
Benjamin thinks Kanz is scummy, decides to leave vote, thinks Death is town. Both reasons are kinda vague. Doesn't like eaed or jaded, is okay with Johnbobb.

(topic 6, page 1)

Leo and Menu don't like that JOhn didn't vote Ulti.
Kanz half defends JB.
Benjamin calls BS on Universal Backup. Menu half agrees. Has no issues with JB but can't definitively read him as town either.
Tony calls Kanz a "faker." Tony thinks ben counterclaimed JB for some reason,
Menu backs John off of hammer and grills him for details. Also questions why Corrik went back to Kanz. Thinks one of JB/Kanz are lying.

(Topic 6, page 2)

Benjamin calls Kanz on weirdly worded post.
IGCD thinks a Death or Kanz lynch will give the most information for some reason-- doesn't explain why this is. Votes Death. Says he'll swap to Kanz if he gets votes. Unvotes Death quickly after after Jaded_Eye vote. Questions if JB was around when Ulti claimed.
MZero points out Death did with flavor what people are on JB for doing with role.
Kanz is 100% that JB or Death is scum, and no matter what we get scum in next two days. Benjamin doesn't like this. Then shifts to one of JB, Death, Jaded.
IGCD thinks JB's defense of not counterclaiming Bulletproof is "fair." Goes back to Death for "information"

(Topic 6, page 3)

Menu goes after me for JB defense.
eaed thinks we can have bulletproof when the untargetable is a survivor-- why is this relevant at this point? Half reading or half defending.
Tony goes on JB-- solid logic of him stalling on the claim and not attempting to draw shots. Death vs JB still debatable at this point.
Menu encourages Corrik to pick Death or JB cause Kanz ain't happening.
MZero says Death->Kanz is a good lynch route.
JB says "Death, Oddity, Kanz, and Tony all scum, Menu and Leo weakass town."
IGCD upset that "Death can't be lynched" with my shift to Kanz. eaed doubts the power of Kanz lynch train. Menu only likes Scare on Death's lynch.
Ben doesn't like how sure he is that one of Death or JB are scum, thinks Kanz is possibly setting up a two town in a row lynch.

(Topic 6, page 4)

IGCD jumps to Kanz no explanation given, this ends the 5-5-5 lock, making it 6-5-4. Keep in mind Kanzaris could've easily jumped to Death at this point to kill him, but it would be very suspicious.
MZero very upset that Death is allowed to get away with a slip that JB made.
Menu upset about JB escaping for Kanz.
Tony thinks JB scummed a lynch out.
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Net feelings from end of day 2. This is not exactly a scum list yet (however I feel pretty damn good about the towns here). But I'm posting this for my reference.

Town+
Death, Tony, Benjamin, Menu

Death, don't see Kanzaris identifying two scum in his 2/3. Probably expects the one "good read" on his scumbuddy in peril will be sufficient. Odds of 3 scum lynch is low.
Tony, don't see Kanzaris correctly identifying two scum. Also defends his points well. Actively pursues JB. The reaction to a scum being lynched over other scum does not seem like something that would be easy to fake.
Benjamin, actively pursues Kanzaris even before he's dead. Shows too much faith in the possibility that John is town, much like Corrik-- scum would've escaped at this point I think.
Menu, pushes Kanzaris for details when he doesn't make sense. Generally feels town. Never actually votes Kanzaris, but commits hard enough to JB, but without full conviction, that I like. Like his reaction to Kanzaris's last second lead take like Tony.

Neutral
MZero

MZero. Despite making sense, I feel like he'd be more likely to see the arguments against Johnbobb having pointed out so many similarities unless he had a lot of distrust of the ones putting em forward. Possibly just stubborn. Feel like a choice of Kanz/JB would've been something he'd do as town when Death appeared dead in the water.

Scum+
Scare, IGCD, Oddity, eaed

Scare, disappears completely, not really mentioned. Does not explain he will be gone. Vote is idled on Death.
IGCD, Vote movements seem poorly justified and the majority of the time he's on Death. Jumps to Kanz at a high leverage point, which is points in his favor, but this still could be scum damage control, doubly so if Scare is scum.
Oddity, Kanz's defense of him is shaky, yet passive enough that it doesn't seem like he's drawing attention to himself. CLaims he has to be somewhere. Vote idles on Johnbobb which is a minor positive.
eaed, refuses to commit anywhere despite being present. This does not seem like town behavior.
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Supplemental questions:

Scare - What did you have to attend to at the end of day 2? Where did you go?

Eaed - Why didn't you vote at the end of day 2?

IGCD - Why did you feel Death would provide us the most information over Johnbobb.

MZero - Do you really think we had a 3 scum lynch day 2? Have you reread Kanz's or JB's posts and felt it made sense that Death would be scum? Would a scumteam that's behind continue to pursue lynching Death?
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Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.
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well that does help reassure me on Tony a little
he's always just felt so underwhelming to me
also I apologize, Ive been too busy to do my own reread all this time
but I guess I can start at topic1 just to add something fresh
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Lopen posted...

MZero. Despite making sense, I feel like he'd be more likely to see the arguments against Johnbobb having pointed out so many similarities unless he had a lot of distrust of the ones putting em forward. Possibly just stubborn. Feel like a choice of Kanz/JB would've been something he'd do as town when Death appeared dead in the water.

this is exactly true. Leo aside, the early votes were Death, Oddity, and Kanz. But I actually said (or at least I think I did) that I thought JB was scum and Death had a better role, and that they were bussing him.

Lopen posted...

MZero - Do you really think we had a 3 scum lynch day 2? Have you reread Kanz's or JB's posts and felt it made sense that Death would be scum? Would a scumteam that's behind continue to pursue lynching Death?

It seems very unlikely to have a 3 scum lynch Day 2 but even still I can't read Death as town. Also Kanz refused to vote him even though he agreed with me and Kanz was in the lead at the point with death rapidly catching up... but Kanz wouldn't vote him. Other than that, I haven't really reread yet.
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benjamin3740 posted...

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.

benjamin3740 posted...

Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.

<_<

And what recent comments? I've pointed to multiple posts where you contradict yourself and / or seem wishy washy.

Lopen "reminded you why you liked Johnbob", but at the start of the day you said Johnbob was "basically dead".

Here's what I think happened: You decided you were gonna bus Kanz, then Johnbob picked up steam.

You didn't want that because then you'd be hurting if you continued your bus.

You literally said "this is the best present ever" when the lynch jumped CRAZY fast to Kanz, because you defended Johnbob on Day 1, calling him "strong Townread" after he literally posted like twice and figured you two were in a good position.

You even made a big deal of "I like everyone on Kanz and hate everyone on Johnbob", and even after Johnbob got caught and flipped scum, your views didn't actually evolve.

Also I'm out of time, post more later
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I backed off yesterday to see how things would develop in the game without my interaction, and to try and get a better read of Lopen, who seems to be doing work, but one thing I'm unsure of is why the claimed watcher doesn't say who he targeted night 1 or night 3.

You came under fire from Leo for having the possibility of a scum gambit there which I only partially agreed with until you claimed to have info on JB. Yet you've given no info since, and strangely noone has asked you for any either. I can't get my head around why this is.

Looking at the votals I think I want Oddity lynched at this point, seems the scum team were fingering each other on the regular day 1 and 2, which makes me slightly more wary of Mzero, but oddity especially hasn't tried to lead an attack on or defense of anyone other than Corrik a guy who, he even openly admits should've been a null read for everyone at that point.

Scare still hasn't produced much of any insight into proceedings and I feel like death is still treading water too, whilst I still think the only possible explanation for his flavour shennanigans are town I expect more from a town death who is usually more clinical with his reads.

Eaed is still a concern especially seeing as Kanz was happy to plop a vote on him as he seems to have probed his scum buddies with votes based on the flips we have so far. Eaed if town and telling the truth about his role also gets to use it in a meaningful way at this point if lynched. So I'm kind of tempted to a force a situation where we get everyone to vote him and let Eaed decide, if he's not lying to poison one of em, and if he is lying it's a win there too. A risky plan though, still debating it.

So for now my vote is firmly on ##Vote: Oddity
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The information on Ben is a little concerning as I've been reading his posts as genuine throughout, I can give myself some leeway as I haven't played with him before and maybe he's just a good player, but when a lot of the game sees problems with him, not all can be scum so I need to reevaluate him some.
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Also Nier: Automata really is the shiznit, quite surprised how much I've taken to it, albeit when you mix bayonetta with revengeance and a compelling story, I'm not sure why I'm surprised but there ya have it.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.

benjamin3740 posted...

Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.

<_<

And what recent comments? I've pointed to multiple posts where you contradict yourself and / or seem wishy washy.

Lopen "reminded you why you liked Johnbob", but at the start of the day you said Johnbob was "basically dead".

Here's what I think happened: You decided you were gonna bus Kanz, then Johnbob picked up steam.

You didn't want that because then you'd be hurting if you continued your bus.

You literally said "this is the best present ever" when the lynch jumped CRAZY fast to Kanz, because you defended Johnbob on Day 1, calling him "strong Townread" after he literally posted like twice and figured you two were in a good position.

You even made a big deal of "I like everyone on Kanz and hate everyone on Johnbob", and even after Johnbob got caught and flipped scum, your views didn't actually evolve.

Also I'm out of time, post more later

I'm not saying that Lopen pointed out things I already liked about you, Tony, I'm saying he actually showed me some things that I missed.

Wishy-washy and changing opinions after getting new information isn't the same thing. I don't think those examples were wishy-washiness.

And yes, saying Johnbob was dead does not have to do with my own reads. I would have said "Death is basically dead" going into today, but I've been trying to defend him. A lot of people wanted to kill johnbob right at the start of day 3, and I wasn't on board with killing him yet. That was my mistake
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I get that Menu, just had a bit of a rough day today (and I wanted to get at least a little P5 in)
expect more tomorrow
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.

benjamin3740 posted...

Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.

<_<

And what recent comments? I've pointed to multiple posts where you contradict yourself and / or seem wishy washy.

Lopen "reminded you why you liked Johnbob", but at the start of the day you said Johnbob was "basically dead".

Here's what I think happened: You decided you were gonna bus Kanz, then Johnbob picked up steam.

You didn't want that because then you'd be hurting if you continued your bus.

You literally said "this is the best present ever" when the lynch jumped CRAZY fast to Kanz, because you defended Johnbob on Day 1, calling him "strong Townread" after he literally posted like twice and figured you two were in a good position.

You even made a big deal of "I like everyone on Kanz and hate everyone on Johnbob", and even after Johnbob got caught and flipped scum, your views didn't actually evolve.

Also I'm out of time, post more later

Also, which views didn't evolve?
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MenuWars posted...

I backed off yesterday to see how things would develop in the game without my interaction, and to try and get a better read of Lopen, who seems to be doing work, but one thing I'm unsure of is why the claimed watcher doesn't say who he targeted night 1 or night 3.

He says that once he tracks, he has to wait 3 days before he can again
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also not a powerful theory
but did anyone think Chris might have been killed because a veteran player who knows him well is on the scumteam?
Johnbobb doesnt exactly fit that bill, Kanz maybe
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benjamin3740 posted...

MenuWars posted...

I backed off yesterday to see how things would develop in the game without my interaction, and to try and get a better read of Lopen, who seems to be doing work, but one thing I'm unsure of is why the claimed watcher doesn't say who he targeted night 1 or night 3.

He says that once he tracks, he has to wait 3 days before he can again

Really? How did I miss this... when was it said?
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benjamin3740 posted...

MenuWars posted...

I backed off yesterday to see how things would develop in the game without my interaction, and to try and get a better read of Lopen, who seems to be doing work, but one thing I'm unsure of is why the claimed watcher doesn't say who he targeted night 1 or night 3.

He says that once he tracks, he has to wait 3 days before he can again

if people werent so happy to call Johnbobb town day3
I would almost find this suspicious
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htaeD posted...

also not a powerful theory
but did anyone think Chris might have been killed because a veteran player who knows him well is on the scumteam?
Johnbobb doesnt exactly fit that bill, Kanz maybe

Chris AND VI. It's part of why I'm on oddity also. Note you also fit this bill too sonny boy.
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htaeD posted...

I get that Menu, just had a bit of a rough day today (and I wanted to get at least a little P5 in)
expect more tomorrow

Also I hate this post and I'm half tempted to kill you for it.
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MenuWars posted...

htaeD posted...

I get that Menu, just had a bit of a rough day today (and I wanted to get at least a little P5 in)
expect more tomorrow

Also I hate this post and I'm half tempted to kill you for it.

I'll send my doctor a notification

anyway
Kanz was tunneling John from the start, putting me aside, I do agree that it'd be weird if Kanz added bussing a second scumpartner to his repertoire, so thats in Tony's favor
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So wait... does ANYONE think Oddity is Town? >_>

why isn't he getting more pressure? I swear like everyone has called him scummy today and yet he's barely being talked about
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MenuWars posted...

htaeD posted...

also not a powerful theory
but did anyone think Chris might have been killed because a veteran player who knows him well is on the scumteam?
Johnbobb doesnt exactly fit that bill, Kanz maybe

Chris AND VI. It's part of why I'm on oddity also. Note you also fit this bill too sonny boy.

honestly I forgot Oddity was around for that long
also I dont suspect myself obviously
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MZero11 posted...

So wait... does ANYONE think Oddity is Town? >_>

why isn't he getting more pressure? I swear like everyone has called him scummy today and yet he's barely being talked about

he's like the blind spot in everyone's eye I feel
not liked or disliked
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htaeD posted...

MenuWars posted...

htaeD posted...

I get that Menu, just had a bit of a rough day today (and I wanted to get at least a little P5 in)
expect more tomorrow

Also I hate this post and I'm half tempted to kill you for it.

I'll send my doctor a notification

anyway
Kanz was tunneling John from the start, putting me aside, I do agree that it'd be weird if Kanz added bussing a second scumpartner to his repertoire, so thats in Tony's favor

Feeling rather jovial there eh death?
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In turn it would be funny if Mzero was scum and he started a third link in a scumbusline by voting Kanz early
but I dont think thats likely
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MenuWars posted...

Feeling rather jovial there eh death?

more like tired
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Lopen posted...

Supplemental questions:

Scare - What did you have to attend to at the end of day 2? Where did you go?

Eaed - Why didn't you vote at the end of day 2?

IGCD - Why did you feel Death would provide us the most information over Johnbobb.

MZero - Do you really think we had a 3 scum lynch day 2? Have you reread Kanz's or JB's posts and felt it made sense that Death would be scum? Would a scumteam that's behind continue to pursue lynching Death?

why do you have a question for everyone on ya scum list except Oddity? You eschew him in favour of your neutral read on MZero. Cor blimey gov'nor this is a strange un.
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htaeD posted...

MenuWars posted...

htaeD posted...

also not a powerful theory
but did anyone think Chris might have been killed because a veteran player who knows him well is on the scumteam?
Johnbobb doesnt exactly fit that bill, Kanz maybe

Chris AND VI. It's part of why I'm on oddity also. Note you also fit this bill too sonny boy.

honestly I forgot Oddity was around for that long
also I dont suspect myself obviously

who does that leave, besides Lopen?
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Scare
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still plenty of people
Chris didnt quit Mafia that long ago... I think

surely Tony and Scare should know him, and I could have sworn you and Menu did too
but again, not that strong a theory
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btw for the record
do either Kanz or John know a lot about Mercs?
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I wasn't in the game at that point, but you could definitely argue Shad yes. As for Tony I know he has experience with him but does he really have the FEAR?
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htaeD posted...

btw for the record
do either Kanz or John know a lot about Mercs?

Well considering Kanz is flavour in the fucking game what do you think?
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anyway literally almost passing out here, cya
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MenuWars posted...

htaeD posted...

btw for the record
do either Kanz or John know a lot about Mercs?

Well considering Kanz is flavour in the fucking game what do you think?

I forgot that
okay so that takes care of any 'could scum know pj as miller makes no sense' questions I had
the answer'd be yes
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There was nothing of value to ask Oddity. He wasn't there, and said he wasn't there beforehand.

And John and Kanz both know a lot about mercs
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MenuWars posted...

I wasn't in the game at that point, but you could definitely argue Shad yes. As for Tony I know he has experience with him but does he really have the FEAR?

ohright Shad
could have suggested to kill Chris before he left
but eh you seem on the level so far
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Lopen posted...

There was nothing of value to ask Oddity. He wasn't there, and said he wasn't there beforehand.

And John and Kanz both know a lot about mercs

could have asked why he wasnt there
unless he explained that
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Lopen posted...

There was nothing of value to ask Oddity. He wasn't there, and said he wasn't there beforehand.

And John and Kanz both know a lot about mercs

It's not like Eaed is ever here but you asked him a question too.
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Lopen posted...

IGCD - Why did you feel Death would provide us the most information over Johnbobb.

I figured it would give us the best indication of the alignments surrounding his attackers and defenders.
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IGCD explain please.

And I said Oddity was not there for the lynch, and said he was not going to be there, not that he's not here. Eaed was there and chose inaction.
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##Unvote Recent points brought have convinced me off of Tony. It's just process of elimination that brought me to him anyway, and because I couldn't remember anything I liked from him. Not too fond of his reactions to my vote, since it was not a countervote but he had to make it look like one. Although I can see that reaction from a town Tony who REALLY is convinced im scum, and he already said he was biased, so his attitude could add up
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Like, in particular, why there would be more indication of Death shedding light on alignments vs Johnbobb. What gave you that feeling.
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I have been busy and sick, I dont even remember what real day was day 2 on.

Even then doesnt matter, just wasnt here, if I could be around I would be around.
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Last Saturday.
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Lopen posted...

IGCD explain please.

And I said Oddity was not there for the lynch, and said he was not going to be there, not that he's not here. Eaed was there and chose inaction.

This makes more sense, in context I should've understood the first time, but all the questions pertained to day 2s lynch and nothing more.
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think saturday is when I started feeling sick

but like I said if I could have been around more I would. And really there is no answer that should change your opinion if Im town or not. Do you feel better about me if I say I was at church or something?
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Well it's particularly glaring in your case because you'd actually been there for hours beforehand then out of nowhere went radio silent and conveniently had their vote left on Death. Did you just pass out from sickness?

Contrast with Oddity who'd been gone most of the day, checked in late, said "can only be here 10 minutes, still feel good about Johnbobb" and then peaced out again.
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