Poll of the Day > The Punisher is probably the most out of place character in the marvel universe

(+) Yeah! (+)

think about it...Marvel Universe is filled with powered up super heroes and super villains

yet the punisher's just some dude with a crap ton of guns and ammo he mainly battles mobsters and crime lords in the very same new york that is usually the site of constant superhero versus super villain battles

yet typically he doesn't run into superheroes or supervillains as often as You'd think....he mainly deals with regular human beings
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huh

the only non-super-superhero doesn't see a whole lot of actual superheroes.

it's not like this isn't the exact same with every other series.

you don't see Dr. Strange fighting Venoms children, do you?

no, he fights magic creatures.

you don't see Ironman fighting Sentinels do you?

no, he fights other iron people

how come when spiderman is fighting hobgoblin, captain america doesn't show up and help?
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Marvel has plenty of powerless heroes and villains, as well as underpowered heroes and villains. In general, though, most heroes and villains are weak to being shot in the head. In that way, the Punisher's choice of weapons is very practical.

The biggest way in which the Punisher is out of place is that he's a murderous vigilante in a universe which not only looks down on that stuff, but frequently tries to bring it to justice. I mean, how many other "heroes" does Marvel really even have who aren't morally opposed to killing? You have Wolverine, but that might be the only other major exception.

NightMareBunny posted...

yet typically he doesn't run into superheroes or supervillains as often as You'd think....he mainly deals with regular human beings

He doesn't have much cause to interact with them, considering he focuses on organized crime. He does face supervillains like Kingpin, Bullseye, Jigsaw, and... well, a lot of guys also in Daredevil's rogues gallery. However, 99% of the time he's focused on the problems that major heroes don't touch. While they're busy saving the world, he cleans up the streets.
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man i remember when they tried to put punisher in the 90's spider-man cartoon and he had laser guns

that was a mistake to even put him in a kids cartoon
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Have you attended a public school? I know the question is out of place but I'm just trying to get some background info on why you type the way you do.

Does Kingpin have any superpowers?
Black Cat? Electra?
What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?
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NightMareBunny posted...

man i remember when they tried to put punisher in the 90's spider-man cartoon and he had laser guns

that was a mistake to even put him in a kids cartoon

A lot of other characters in the Marvel Animated Series also had laser guns. It's not really that out of place. Plus the Punisher was one of Marvel's more popular characters during the 90s and his comics were likely read by kids.

Cacciato posted...

Have you attended a public school? I know the question is out of place but I'm just trying to get some background info on why you type the way you do.

Oddly enough, he seems to type a lot like Helly where both don't use capitalization and frequently break their sentences into separate paragraphs.
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Foppe posted...

What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?

he has a future suit that can withstand a point blank nuke, and then explode the thing that shot the nuke with a blast stronger than 10 nukes.
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Zeus posted...

a lot like Helly

So are you going to start accusing him of being NMB, and Janway now?
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give him time and he'll notice than jen started posting like this, too

also shenti copies me almost exactly to a t

as well as nade, and sometimes kana
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Foppe posted...

Does Kingpin have any superpowers?
Black Cat? Electra?
What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?

Kingpin's a mob boss but he has had interactions with costumed supervillains(some superpowered)

Black Cat at one time had Bad Luck Powers but i don't think she has those anymore

Tony Stark still fits in because the iron man suit is his superhero costume and he fits in with all the other crazy superheroes and super villains with his tech

But the punisher? hell anyone could be punisher you just gotta have an unholy amount of guns that's it

The Punisher is more like the real world's idea of what a vigilante is....A Deranged Serial Killer going around taking justice into his own hands

in a world where Vigilantes are guys like Spider-Man Iron-Man And Thor

Some Dude who runs around shooting people in the head....seems a little out of place

that's what's odd about him he's just a remorseless killer going around murdering criminals without a second thought

in a world where there are so many heroes his ass would have been capped on day one when they started noticing the pile up of corpses on the streets
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Foppe posted...

Does Kingpin have any superpowers?
Black Cat? Electra?
What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?

Actually, Elektra *does* have powers. Black Cat has had powers depending on the continuity and whoever was handling her run. Granted, some continuities just don't bother disclosing whether or not she has powers, so I'm just assuming she doesn't in those cases.
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helIy posted...

Foppe posted...

What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?

he has a future suit that can withstand a point blank nuke, and then explode the thing that shot the nuke with a blast stronger than 10 nukes.

One that he built himself because he is rich and smart?
Batman built a couple of suits as well.
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NightMareBunny posted...

But the punisher? hell anyone could be punisher you just gotta have an unholy amount of guns that's it

Actually no. The Punisher is a highly trained, highly decorated soldier who tapped into his berserk button which gives him almost superhuman-like abilities. While he doesn't have actual powers, there are very few people with his capabilities.

NightMareBunny posted...

in a world where there are so many heroes his ass would have been capped on day one when they started noticing the pile up of corpses on the streets

Well, he's killing criminals. Heroes don't seem to react as strongly to violence perpetrated against lawbreakers when it doesn't hurt bystanders. His methods have gone head-to-head with a number of superheroes (because murder is highly illegal and he is wanted by the authorities), but usually they just back off in much the same way that he decided Spider-Man wasn't a bad guy and didn't kill him. Also keep in mind that he's not exactly an easy guy to track down. He's constantly on the move and strikes very quickly.
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yeah, but batman wears a cape and uses grappling hooks and throwing stars

tony flys and shoots lasers. he also doesn't have a cape.


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helIy posted...

give him time and he'll notice than jen started posting like this, too

also shenti copies me almost exactly to a t

as well as nade, and sometimes kana

i was posting like this before most of you even joined gfaqs.
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This is honestly the case for almost ALL of the connected series in both the Marvel and DC universes. All these totally separate instances of totally unrelated people getting super powers in totally unrelated ways in totally unrelated settings, most of the time in settings where superpowers are seen as something magically unbelievable rather than "that very rare trait some people have." It's even worse in the Marvel universe, where the entire premise of X-men forms a completely different Earth with its own culture and history, yet it supposedly coexists with other series where we see Earth much closer to reality.

I opt for the way of thinking of "it's only canon if it's happening right now" with regard to crossovers.
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No one copies you helly, definitely not advertently.

However you all type like fucking savages, this much is true.
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Zeus posted...

NightMareBunny posted...

But the punisher? hell anyone could be punisher you just gotta have an unholy amount of guns that's it

Actually no. The Punisher is a highly trained, highly decorated soldier who tapped into his berserk button which gives him almost superhuman-like abilities. While he doesn't have actual powers, there are very few people with his capabilities.

NightMareBunny posted...

in a world where there are so many heroes his ass would have been capped on day one when they started noticing the pile up of corpses on the streets

Well, he's killing criminals. Heroes don't seem to react as strongly to violence perpetrated against lawbreakers when it doesn't hurt bystanders. His methods have gone head-to-head with a number of superheroes (because murder is highly illegal and he is wanted by the authorities), but usually they just back off in much the same way that he decided Spider-Man wasn't a bad guy and didn't kill him. Also keep in mind that he's not exactly an easy guy to track down. He's constantly on the move and strikes very quickly.

but most do see him as a deranged psychopath and sooner or later innocent lives get caught in the crossfire
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I'd be interested in a comic/movie/series where all the shit in the Marvel universe is going on at the same time, and everything getting fucked up and worse because of it.

Punisher shooting lowlifes, Spiderman fighting his enemies, demi-gods fighting other demi-gods.

Like three months later the whole world is post-apocalyptic due to the loss of life and infrastructure. All the while the heroes are mostly oblivious to it all or figure that everything will be fixed when villains stop wrecking stuff.

Eventually heroes and villains start to kill each other off, humanity is just clinging to the rubble hoping it will stop, or a quick death will come for them.

At the end its just one hero left and a ruined world.
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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

I'd be interested in a comic/movie/series where all the shit in the Marvel universe is going on at the same time, and everything getting fucked up and worse because of it.

Punisher shooting lowlifes, Spiderman fighting his enemies, demi-gods fighting other demi-gods.

Like three months later the whole world is post-apocalyptic due to the loss of life and infrastructure. All the while the heroes are mostly oblivious to it all or figure that everything will be fixed when villains stop wrecking stuff.

Eventually heroes and villains start to kill each other off, humanity is just clinging to the rubble hoping it will stop, or a quick death will come for them.

At the end its just one hero left and a ruined world.

https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Image-82-600x774.jpg
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Zeus posted...

The biggest way in which the Punisher is out of place is that he's a murderous vigilante in a universe which not only looks down on that stuff, but frequently tries to bring it to justice. I mean, how many other "heroes" does Marvel really even have who aren't morally opposed to killing? You have Wolverine, but that might be the only other major exception.

Ironman, Thor, Black Widow, Captain America, Hulk, Sentry, Blade, Moon Knight, Cyclops, Prof X. It's a long list.
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EclairReturns posted...

Zeus posted...

a lot like Helly

So are you going to start accusing him of being NMB, and Janway now?

Clearly everybody I dislike is secretly Helly. >_>

Gamechamp3k posted...

This is honestly the case for almost ALL of the connected series in both the Marvel and DC universes. All these totally separate instances of totally unrelated people getting super powers in totally unrelated ways in totally unrelated settings, most of the time in settings where superpowers are seen as something magically unbelievable rather than "that very rare trait some people have." It's even worse in the Marvel universe, where the entire premise of X-men forms a completely different Earth with its own culture and history, yet it supposedly coexists with other series where we see Earth much closer to reality.

I opt for the way of thinking of "it's only canon if it's happening right now" with regard to crossovers.

Eh, it's not that *that* unlikely from another perspective. In the case of Marvel, you have the mutates principle -- or did, not sure if it's still going, you can ask PO -- which decreed that certain individuals are naturally prone to mutation under certain circumstances. So the fact that we have this universe where, on some level, all of the powers are somewhat related. The one major exception upon which I completely agree is that the X-Men make no sense in this universe in that a bias against mutants is farcical in a universe packed with strange and powerful beings.

Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

I'd be interested in a comic/movie/series where all the shit in the Marvel universe is going on at the same time, and everything getting fucked up and worse because of it.

Punisher shooting lowlifes, Spiderman fighting his enemies, demi-gods fighting other demi-gods.

Like three months later the whole world is post-apocalyptic due to the loss of life and infrastructure. All the while the heroes are mostly oblivious to it all or figure that everything will be fixed when villains stop wrecking stuff.

Eventually heroes and villains start to kill each other off, humanity is just clinging to the rubble hoping it will stop, or a quick death will come for them.

At the end its just one hero left and a ruined world.

Variations of heroes making things worse then fighting each other are done like every other year with Marvel. Although the world doesn't always end, it's a common enough occurrence.

EvilMegas posted...

Zeus posted...

The biggest way in which the Punisher is out of place is that he's a murderous vigilante in a universe which not only looks down on that stuff, but frequently tries to bring it to justice. I mean, how many other "heroes" does Marvel really even have who aren't morally opposed to killing? You have Wolverine, but that might be the only other major exception.

Ironman, Thor, Black Widow, Captain America, Hulk, Sentry, Blade, Moon Knight, Cyclops, Prof X. It's a long list.

Black Widow and Blade I'll give you (although YMMV with how "major" Blade is; yes, he's had films, but I can't recall him being one of the biggest), but Captain America is opposed (he doesn't even use a gun any more), Hulk was opposed (he accidentally killed another super in a fight and cried after), Professor X has an absurd number of rules, and I can't recall Iron Man really being supportive of it. Sentry *has* killed or attempted to kill multiple people, but he's not much of a hero.

Of course, the one big name I neglected was Ghost Rider, although he's a supernatural vigilante.
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Foppe posted...

Does Kingpin have any superpowers?
Black Cat? Electra?
What is Tony Starks superpowers? Being rich and smart? Like Batman?

black cat has an altered version of the super soldier serum.
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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

I'd be interested in a comic/movie/series where all the shit in the Marvel universe is going on at the same time, and everything getting fucked up and worse because of it.

Punisher shooting lowlifes, Spiderman fighting his enemies, demi-gods fighting other demi-gods.

Like three months later the whole world is post-apocalyptic due to the loss of life and infrastructure. All the while the heroes are mostly oblivious to it all or figure that everything will be fixed when villains stop wrecking stuff.

Eventually heroes and villains start to kill each other off, humanity is just clinging to the rubble hoping it will stop, or a quick death will come for them.

At the end its just one hero left and a ruined world.

Their are actually 2 plague inc mods for this exact scenario. One is for marvel and one is for DC.
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SooSober posted...

No one copies you helly, definitely not advertently.

However you all type like fucking savages, this much is true.

don't judge me.
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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

I'd be interested in a comic/movie/series where all the shit in the Marvel universe is going on at the same time, and everything getting fucked up and worse because of it.

Punisher shooting lowlifes, Spiderman fighting his enemies, demi-gods fighting other demi-gods.

Like three months later the whole world is post-apocalyptic due to the loss of life and infrastructure. All the while the heroes are mostly oblivious to it all or figure that everything will be fixed when villains stop wrecking stuff.

Eventually heroes and villains start to kill each other off, humanity is just clinging to the rubble hoping it will stop, or a quick death will come for them.

At the end its just one hero left and a ruined world.

Closest thing I remember is a series where (I think) Magneto wipes out most of Earths population and orchestrates the deaths of many of the worlds heroes. I think Wolverine, Thor, and Dr. Doom end up stopping him in the end, though at least Wolverine dies in the process and the world is still messed up beyond reason.

Old Man Logan had a future where the bad guys teamed up and attacked all the good guys at the same time, and then split USA between the most powerful badies.
Wolverine was one of a handful surviving heroes, and he got so devastated so he promised to never fight again. He is now a farmer with a wife and kid, and is forced to pay tax to the Banner Clan. The gamma radiation finally screwed up the Hulks brain, making him a crazy redneck that has been breeding tons of crazy green kids.
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Zeus posted...

Black Widow and Blade I'll give you (although YMMV with how "major" Blade is; yes, he's had films, but I can't recall him being one of the biggest), but Captain America is opposed (he doesn't even use a gun any more), Hulk was opposed (he accidentally killed another super in a fight and cried after), Professor X has an absurd number of rules, and I can't recall Iron Man really being supportive of it. Sentry *has* killed or attempted to kill multiple people, but he's not much of a hero.

Tony killed during the 1st Armor Wars, and he was on the side of Avengers who were okay with killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence during Operation: Galactic Storm. Captain America isn't opposed to killing, he's a former soldier who tries not to do it but will kill when necessary, such as when he punched the terrorist Al Tariq & snapped his neck on live TV. Professor X tried to kill his twin sister while still in the womb, and mindwiped everyone to just forget the 2nd X-Men team when they died/were thought dead(including Cyclops' brother) & just casually went about creating a 3rd team.

Then there's Mockingbird, who killed Phantom Rider. Moon Knight, who is both a mercenary and crazy. Solo, who is pretty much The Punisher just against terrorists. Thor, who is a warrior born who will kill on the battlefield. Silver Sable, who leads a team of mercs(funny how alot of Spider-Man allies are willing to kill). Cable, who is a ex-soldier & ex-mercenary. Domino who was on Cable's merc team. Elektra, who has operated as an assassin before. U.S. Agent, who savagely beat & killed the men who were responsible for his parent's death. Colossus, who tried to kill Proteus and did snap Riptide's neck during the Mutant Massacre. Ghost Rider, etc. Most heroes will kill when it's absolutely necessary.
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Gundammike posted...

Zeus posted...

Black Widow and Blade I'll give you (although YMMV with how "major" Blade is; yes, he's had films, but I can't recall him being one of the biggest), but Captain America is opposed (he doesn't even use a gun any more), Hulk was opposed (he accidentally killed another super in a fight and cried after), Professor X has an absurd number of rules, and I can't recall Iron Man really being supportive of it. Sentry *has* killed or attempted to kill multiple people, but he's not much of a hero.

Tony killed during the 1st Armor Wars, and he was on the side of Avengers who were okay with killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence during Operation: Galactic Storm. Captain America isn't opposed to killing, he's a former soldier who tries not to do it but will kill when necessary, such as when he punched the terrorist Al Tariq & snapped his neck on live TV. Professor X tried to kill his twin sister while still in the womb, and mindwiped everyone to just forget the 2nd X-Men team when they died/were thought dead(including Cyclops' brother) & just casually went about creating a 3rd team.

Then there's Mockingbird, who killed Phantom Rider. Moon Knight, who is both a mercenary and crazy. Solo, who is pretty much The Punisher just against terrorists. Thor, who is a warrior born who will kill on the battlefield. Silver Sable, who leads a team of mercs(funny how alot of Spider-Man allies are willing to kill). Cable, who is a ex-soldier & ex-mercenary. Domino who was on Cable's merc team. Elektra, who has operated as an assassin before. U.S. Agent, who savagely beat & killed the men who were responsible for his parent's death. Colossus, who tried to kill Proteus and did snap Riptide's neck during the Mutant Massacre. Ghost Rider, etc. Most heroes will kill when it's absolutely necessary.

Yeah, the only guy that is like flat out not about killing is Spider-Man I guess.
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Heh, that reminds me of a comic where Peters radioactive sperm gave Mary Jane cancer and killed her.
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Gundammike posted...

Tony killed during the 1st Armor Wars, and he was on the side of Avengers who were okay with killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence during Operation: Galactic Storm. Captain America isn't opposed to killing, he's a former soldier who tries not to do it but will kill when necessary, such as when he punched the terrorist Al Tariq & snapped his neck on live TV. Professor X tried to kill his twin sister while still in the womb, and mindwiped everyone to just forget the 2nd X-Men team when they died/were thought dead(including Cyclops' brother) & just casually went about creating a 3rd team.

There's a pretty big difference between killing in war and killing while just fighting crime. However, even during war scenarios, most heroes -- including Captain America -- try to disable rather than kill. Again, the old Cap used to carry and use a gun. Now he just has a shield.

As for mindwiping, that's not killing and it's also a much older continuity.

Gundammike posted...

Then there's Mockingbird, who killed Phantom Rider. Moon Knight, who is both a mercenary and crazy. Solo, who is pretty much The Punisher just against terrorists. Thor, who is a warrior born who will kill on the battlefield. Silver Sable, who leads a team of mercs(funny how alot of Spider-Man allies are willing to kill). Cable, who is a ex-soldier & ex-mercenary. Domino who was on Cable's merc team. Elektra, who has operated as an assassin before. U.S. Agent, who savagely beat & killed the men who were responsible for his parent's death. Colossus, who tried to kill Proteus and did snap Riptide's neck during the Mutant Massacre. Ghost Rider, etc. Most heroes will kill when it's absolutely necessary.

Mockingbird isn't a major hero. Thor seems to rarely kill outside of wars. Mockingbird and Solo aren't major heroes. Sure, I can see Cable killing and the less-notable Domino is probably likely to do it as well. However, with ALL of these examples, it's clearly different from the Punisher, Wolverine, and Ghost Rider who kill as a first resort rather than a last resort. That's their Plan A for stopping most bad guys, although even Wolverine has toned down on it.

EvilMegas posted...

Yeah, the only guy that is like flat out not about killing is Spider-Man I guess.

Apparently he has a killcount as well: (Bearing in mind that at least one example was an accidental death not murder)
http://whatculture.com/comics/10-times-spider-man-forced-kill

However, again, there's a difference between heroes who very rarely kill and a guy who tries to solve every problem with a bullet in the skull.
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What about Nick Fury?
He used to have his own comic.
And wasnt Grey Hulk a mob leader that got no problems with having people killed?
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Foppe posted...

What about Nick Fury?

Not really a superhero, he was a government agent.

Foppe posted...

And wasnt Grey Hulk a mob leader that got no problems with having people killed?

That doesn't sound like Joe Fix-It.
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Zeus posted...

Again, the old Cap used to carry and use a gun. Now he just has a shield.

there's a reason that shields fell out of vogue right around the time when gunpowder's usage became widespread, but not for Cap...

its half the reason i tend to find Cap's gimmick ridiculous.
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Heads will roll if The Punisher has his way.
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Punisher isn't just some guy with guns though. He's extremely well trained in much the same way Batman is.

Lil69Leo posted...

Punisher isn't just some guy with guns though. He's extremely well trained in much the same way Batman is.

but the marvel universe at large just sees him as "That Crazy Guy With Crap Loads Of Guns" most probably don't know his extensive history or care enough to learn about it

they just know he's bad news and a loose cannon
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The most out of place character in the Marvel Universe is Lady Stilt-Man, thank you.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Zeus posted...

Again, the old Cap used to carry and use a gun. Now he just has a shield.

there's a reason that shields fell out of vogue right around the time when gunpowder's usage became widespread, but not for Cap...

its half the reason i tend to find Cap's gimmick ridiculous.

The reason was that ordinary metal shields couldn't protect adequately against gunfire *but* that doesn't apply to a Vibranium shield which is strong enough to resist bullets and heavy weapons and can even block Adamantium.



NightMareBunny posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

Punisher isn't just some guy with guns though. He's extremely well trained in much the same way Batman is.

but the marvel universe at large just sees him as "That Crazy Guy With Crap Loads Of Guns" most probably don't know his extensive history or care enough to learn about it

they just know he's bad news and a loose cannon

Actually, he's one of the few heroes with a well-known backstory because he has no secret identity and makes it into the news often.
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Zeus posted...

The reason was that ordinary metal shields couldn't protect adequately against gunfire *but* that doesn't apply to a Vibranium shield which is strong enough to resist bullets and heavy weapons and can even block Adamantium.

i know full well what the deal with Cap's shield is. its still a stupid accessory/gimmick.
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This topic is terrible.
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The Punishers superpower isn't guns. It's vengeance.

This topic was okay until post 44.

Punisher got a gun that shoots swords.
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dedbus posted...

The Punishers superpower isn't guns. It's vengeance.

I laughed.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Zeus posted...

The reason was that ordinary metal shields couldn't protect adequately against gunfire *but* that doesn't apply to a Vibranium shield which is strong enough to resist bullets and heavy weapons and can even block Adamantium.

i know full well what the deal with Cap's shield is. its still a stupid accessory/gimmick.

I would argue that it's not, because it has a practical combat purpose. Keep in mind that shields *are* still used today, although a riot shield is less able to stop a bullet. If you could easily carry a shield which could stop a bullet, you'd be much better off than somebody who doesn't have one when running for cover since it'd reduce your likelihood of being host. And, in fact, if shields like those existed irl and could be affordably mass produced, we'd probably see cops equipped with them.
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Zeus posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

Zeus posted...

The reason was that ordinary metal shields couldn't protect adequately against gunfire *but* that doesn't apply to a Vibranium shield which is strong enough to resist bullets and heavy weapons and can even block Adamantium.

i know full well what the deal with Cap's shield is. its still a stupid accessory/gimmick.

I would argue that it's not, because it has a practical combat purpose. Keep in mind that shields *are* still used today, although a riot shield is less able to stop a bullet. If you could easily carry a shield which could stop a bullet, you'd be much better off than somebody who doesn't have one when running for cover since it'd reduce your likelihood of being host. And, in fact, if shields like those existed irl and could be affordably mass produced, we'd probably see cops equipped with them.

but realistically, how many bullets is Cap dealing with at this point while dealing with superhumans? how many super powered individuals actually use firearms?
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Cap doesn't *just* deal with superhumans, many of his enemies still use traditional weapons (including some superhumans). However, even the ones not using firearms, there's still an advantage when they have other guys of dangerous projectiles. A lot of supervillains attack with projectiles which can be deflected. Plus, as far as gear goes, it also has offensive capabilities between using it as a projectile or just hitting somebody with it.

While there are other weapons he could use, most lack the defensive capabilities plus he doesn't seem to want to kill people half the time. If he used a sword instead, most of his fights would end with somebody seriously injured or dead.
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At least Marvel doesnt have Arm-Fall-Off-Boy.
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