Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 78: Also to experience a 78% decrease in budget.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Peace___Frog posted...

Pardon?

Trump talks about Perlmutter at the start.
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Yeah, people saying "I have no empathy for those who voted for Trump" are missing the point entirely. You should be massively upset on their behalf, because you're supposed to actively care about your fellow Americans even if you disagree with them politically. It's one thing to mock the hardcore Trumpsters who can't be persuaded he's anything but a god, but those who were independents who felt desperate for help and that Hillary was another career politician who didn't care for them are the ones that you should feel actual sympathy for.

Also, the reason why "job" is more appealing that "relief" is because there are some people who actually prided themselves in that work and don't want to feel like they're just taking government relief because they live in coal country. You can be realistic with them about the chances coal recovers but at the same time you have to understand why they want those jobs beyond just "so I can feed my family."
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I don't care about fellow Americans who don't care about other fellow Americans. It's one thing to be a desperate coal miner. That hardly makes up all of Trump's voting base. There's plenty of people who aren't hardcore Trumpsters, who weren't in desperate need of aid, and who still looked at the guy talking about grabbing p****** and deporting people and went "yeah, seems legit". I don't really care if Trump f***s with them. I'd still fight on their behalf, but I think karma is fairly justified there.
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I'd rather be empathetic to all those who struggle even if they aren't actively empathetic to others. Whether it's a transgender woman experiencing discrimination or a former US factory worker struggling to support his family.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Also, the reason why "job" is more appealing that "relief" is because there are some people who actually prided themselves in that work and don't want to feel like they're just taking government relief because they live in coal country.

If the government has to make a job for you out of thin air, it's relief anyway. It's just not relief that will ever actually materialize.

This is why our generation says "cheaper college!" and "higher minimum wage!" instead of "six figure jobs herding unicorns!"


Pokewars posted...

That's all well and good, but someone calling half the country idiots because they voted differently than you is stupid. That's what I was responding to.

It's not cuz they voted "differently" it's cuz they voted "for Donald Trump".
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Do you feel empathy for Donald Trump? Or Paul Ryan?

Just curious.
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I think you're ascribing a lot of inherently sympathetic qualities to people that don't necessarily have them, as well as cross-referencing those qualities with politics. A transgender woman struggling with discrimination is sympathetic. However, I would be much less sympathetic towards that person if they turned around and went "but f*** the Jews, am I right?". Additionally, her struggles with discrimination have nothing to do with her political opinions. I could at the same time be sympathetic towards her LGBT plights and not care if she was a dumbass for voting for Trump.

And it's not like all Trump supporters are these tortured souls to begin with! Yeah, some people are desperate for economic change. That's understandable. However, a lot of them are just white people who don't care about minorities people being discriminated against and/or deported, and a lot of them are also men who don't care about women's rights. This is backed up directly by the fact that Trump did really well among white people and men specifically (not to say that all white and/or males were like that but there's a very obvious reason why he rocked those numbers). Those people are just jerks. I don't like jerks.

If you want to make those people look okay, the word to use wouldn't be sympathetic - it would be uneducated. As South Park said - and South Park is, of course, never wrong - 1/4 of the country is dumb. Some people are bigots, but some people also don't 'get' minorities simply because they have no experience with them, and would act much better if they just sat down for half an hour and talked to minorities about their struggles. AT THE SAME TIME, we live in an age where information is super easy to come by, so I'm still not too happy with them.
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I pretty much think Hilary is the biggest scumbucket the Democrats could have possibly spat out this past electon, but yeah, I feel perfectly comfortable calling anyone who happily ignored all of the vile crap Trump was spewing to pull a voting switch for him an idiot. I have harsher words for the other category, the 4chan Pepe edgelords who just think everyone suffering is funny, but I would be banned for posting them
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SupremeZero posted...

Do you feel empathy for Donald Trump? Or Paul Ryan?

Just curious.

I do, but in very different ways.
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Trump meeting Merkel today. Went about as well as you'd expect.

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/842777831629307904
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The Mana Sword posted...

Trump meeting Merkel today. Went about as well as you'd expect.

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/842777831629307904

Lmao he can't even look at her!
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"I'm supposed to treat a female well what is this?"
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Based on our experience with neoliberalism/Reaganomics, it can take 30 years for people to figure out they are being screwed over. Don't count on it happening with Trump anytime soon.
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"Empathy for those who are like you is trivial, weak, the kind of thing you teach a toddler. True compassion is for those you do not--cannot--understand."

seems relevant.
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I don't really care if Trump f***s with them. I'd still fight on their behalf, but I think karma is fairly justified there.

Do you know who else gets f***ed with? Their families. Their children who were too young to have a say in it themselves. Those in the community who didn't support Trump also get f***ed over. I didn't vote for Trump. I DID benefit from the coding program. And now, my friends and family who weren't lucky enough to get selected for the first round may not have a chance. Now, my own job may suffer as the region around us collapses even more and such a job may be deemed unnecessary in such a place. I get to watch good people, many who didn't support Trump, get f***ed over.

But it's okay because many people here voted for him, right?

Frankly, I think those who go "f*** you, you voted for Trump" are just as bad as Trumpists.
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And to clear some things up, the "teach miners/others to code" thing was bipartisan. It had support from both sides. Bevin has actually been a pretty decent part in supporting it. There wasn't really voting "against" it by voting Republican or anything, so it's not like people were voting coal OVER it.

Trump's administration wanting to cut it wasn't really a foretold thing.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't care about fellow Americans who don't care about other fellow Americans.

So you're saying you don't care about Americans who don't care about Trump supporting Americans?
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mnkboy907 posted...

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't care about fellow Americans who don't care about other fellow Americans.

So you're saying you don't care about Americans who don't care about Trump supporting Americans?

Which would mean he shouldn't expect people to care about him
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StealThisSheen posted...

And to clear some things up, the "teach miners/others to code" thing was bipartisan. It had support from both sides. Bevin has actually been a pretty decent part in supporting it. There wasn't really voting "against" it by voting Republican or anything, so it's not like people were voting coal OVER it.

Trump's administration wanting to cut it wasn't really a foretold thing.

Right. Trump ran by appealing to the people he is f***ing hardest. The Democrats need to shout this over and over again for the next two years.
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I have a hard time feeling bad for "all people" like you're saying when that's been liberals policy for years and these same people have laughed in our face and called us special snowflakes. And then we tell them Trump is bad. Exactly what he will do. That he won't help them. And they vote him anyway. Now they want to be coddled about it, when they were the very worst before? It's a little much.

StealThisSheen posted...

Do you know who else gets f***ed with? Their families. Their children who were too young to have a say in it themselves.

Didn't have a say in it. Sympathetic.

Those in the community who didn't support Trump also get f***ed over.

Obviously sympathetic. Stated many times.

But it's okay because many people here voted for him, right?

Obviously not. Never said that. You have put an incredible number of words in my mouth, all directly against things I have already clearly stated.


Like, I get that you're upset that your community is in trouble, but I already said I feel for people who didn't support Trump AND that even though I don't feel for a lot of people who did, I would still fight on their behalf. Not sure what more you want from me.


mnkboy907 posted...

So you're saying you don't care about Americans who don't care about Trump supporting Americans?

I'm fine with people being unempathetic towards s***ty people. I wouldn't expect people to be sympathetic towards people who wants immigrants - illegal or otherwise - to get deported, no.
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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I have a hard time feeling bad for "all people" like you're saying when that's been liberals policy for years and these same people have laughed in our face and called us special snowflakes. And then we tell them Trump is bad. Exactly what he will do. That he won't help them. And they vote him anyway. Now they want to be coddled about it, when they were the very worst before? It's a little much.

So now you're laughing in their face and doing the exact same thing. How is that any better? Is the policy "Take the high road until it's a little difficult, then be a jackass as well?"

It's one thing not to feel bad about people like Ulti. But most people aren't Ulti.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Obviously not. Never said that. You have put an incredible number of words in my mouth, all directly against things I have already clearly stated.

So you don't see anything wrong with going "They deserve to lose the program, I don't feel bad" to certain people, but then go "Oh, but these others didn't?"

It can't really go both ways. You want to spite one type of people, but doing so spites all.

I mean, you flat out said "I don't care if Trump f***s with them" in response to it.

But he can't f*** with them without f***ing with the others. Therefore, you don't actually care about them, either.
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When Kentucky goes for Trump by 30 points you can see how some liberals would write the whole state off but yeah the state still has a third of its votes go for clinton its not like uniform

But....those people are short sighted and dont see that the road to a majority starts right here and now in Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.
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Uuuuuh no. I don't want to spite certain people for the sake of f***ing over everyone. a.k.a. I already said I'd fight on the behalf of people I didn't find sympathetic. I still don't have to find those people sympathetic while doing it.
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I totally understand a lack of empathy for those who essentially made their own mess. I understand not feeling sorry for people who were foolish enough to fall for the obvious con. But here's the thing....



That sick enjoyment you get from seeing people get "what they deserve"? That smug satisfaction you get when their "god emperor" takes the money and leaves his supporters with the bill? That's the side of you that you shouldn't listen to you. "I told you so" doesn't help the country. It may make you feel better for a while, and trust me I'm a petty petty person who would love to be there when it all comes crumbling down, but it doesn't help anyone. If your goal is to make the country a better place, we can't afford to lose our empathy.



There are some people who don't deserve any empathy, but I reserve that for murderers, rapists, people who intentionally bring harm to other people for their own personal amusement/gain. Not people who were tricked by a conman.
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I'm not laughing tho. I'm worn down, tired, and apathetic to the point of giving up by now.

Eddv posted...

When Kentucky goes for Trump by 30 points you can see how some liberals would write the whole state off but yeah the state still has a third of its votes go for clinton its not like uniform

But....those people are short sighted and dont see that the road to a majority starts right here and now in Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

This is the issue.

These people are the turning point. They're getting f***ed over hard.

Democrats are NOT going to win them over by going "That's what you deserve. f*** you."
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StealThisSheen posted...

Eddv posted...

When Kentucky goes for Trump by 30 points you can see how some liberals would write the whole state off but yeah the state still has a third of its votes go for clinton its not like uniform

But....those people are short sighted and dont see that the road to a majority starts right here and now in Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

This is the issue.

These people are the turning point. They're getting f***ed over hard.

Democrats are NOT going to win them over by going "That's what you deserve. f*** you."

BINGO!
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I'll paraphrase a friend: "Yes, be mad! ...and then do the right thing."

Feel how you feel, just don't let it keep you from doing something you may think is both moral and advantageous.
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https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/842746373187473414

https://twitter.com/R_A_Bell/status/842748999543218176

On what the budget does to students and grants.
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http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/trump-supporter-credits-trumpcare-which-hasnt-taken-effect-for-dramatically-lower-health-costs/

You want us to empathize with dumbasses like this?

I feel for the kids, but people like this who are so so so so uniformed they willfully choose things that hurt the country can f*** off.
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Stupidity is not a crime.

And if stupid people were never given a second chance in life, where would any of us be?


Especially if we ourselves were taught by stupid people...
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Dark Young Link posted...

Stupidity is not a crime.

And if stupid people were never given a second chance in life, where would any of us be?


Especially if we ourselves were taught by stupid people...

So if someone is so dumb they accidentally shoot someone, is that a crime?

My point is, being stupid isn't the thing I don't like them for, it's when they're aggressively stupid and for example, actively working against the health of children.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You want us to empathize with dumbasses like this?

If you have to do it by pitying them, then yes, I want you to empathize with dumbasses like that.

I used to be a dumbass like that - from childhood through my teenage years, I was taught by church and home to be a good Republican Christian Boy. It was indoctrination.

Thankfully, both me and my mother woke up and realized that the Republicans weren't even practicing what they preached - in fact, they were practicing what they were accusing the Democrats of doing. So we started educating ourselves and came to the conclusion that the Democrats weren't even half as evil as the Republicans believed them to be (while the Republicans weren't even half the saints they believed themselves to be) and changed accordingly.

Not everyone had that opportunity. So yes, I empathize with them because they're voting against their own self interests and they're too indoctrinated to see otherwise. Just look at the Republican attacks on every fact checking website that disproves their lies - even when said fact checking websites also disprove Democratic lies. They hate the truth. But they've got people convinced that reality is liberal propaganda, and that conservative propaganda is reality.

And as spiteful as you wanna be, hateful rhetoric is only going to further convince the dumbasses that they're right and you're wrong.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/trump-supporter-credits-trumpcare-which-hasnt-taken-effect-for-dramatically-lower-health-costs/

You want us to empathize with dumbasses like this?

Mmhmm

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

So if someone is so dumb they accidentally shoot someone, is that a crime?

>_>

That would be manslaughter.


And yes I'm utterly against people acting against the health of children, but there is a difference between the people too dumb to realize the harm they're doing... and the people who don't care about the harm they know they're doing. Those are the people your anger is best directed at. The people who intentionally deflect the truth. The people who intentionally do things that can only have a negative outcome.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/trump-supporter-credits-trumpcare-which-hasnt-taken-effect-for-dramatically-lower-health-costs/

You want us to empathize with dumbasses like this?

I feel for the kids, but people like this who are so so so so uniformed they willfully choose things that hurt the country can f*** off.

You don't have to personally empathize with the dumbest of the dumb, but outright telling them to "f*** off" makes you no better than them, and all it's going to do is convince them that they're right and that Democrats are a******s.

Again, not everybody is an Ulti. Some people are just dumb, not purposely dishonest and ignorant.
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I hate this idea of how their side can cuss and belittle our side and tell off to **** ourselves for years and s*** themselves before rubbing it all over themselves but when it comes to our side we have to be perfect angels 100% or everything we've ever said is just bulls*** apparently.

Did Ulti get a job a in the WH press room? https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/03/17/how-the-white-house-made-me-real-news/
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I still empathize with the dumbest of the dumb because they truly don't know better and even faced with facts they never will. But outside of people like rapists, child molesters, and murders I can feel empathy for any person.
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I emphasize a good bit more with dumb people than people who know and just don't care, I think. But good god that is still an alarming level of stupidity.
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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I hate this idea of how their side can cuss and belittle our side and tell off to **** ourselves for years and s*** themselves before rubbing it all over themselves but when it comes to our side we have to be perfect angels 100% or everything we've ever said is just bulls*** apparently.

I also hate the idea that when the other side does something, it's bad, but when our side does something, it's justified.
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BowserCuffs posted...

PerfectChaosZ posted...

I hate this idea of how their side can cuss and belittle our side and tell off to **** ourselves for years and s*** themselves before rubbing it all over themselves but when it comes to our side we have to be perfect angels 100% or everything we've ever said is just bulls*** apparently.

I also hate the idea that when the other side does something, it's bad, but when our side does something, it's justified.

False equivalency.

I don't want anything taken away from them, or them to face any punishment.

I just think they're pieces of s***.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

PerfectChaosZ posted...

I hate this idea of how their side can cuss and belittle our side and tell off to **** ourselves for years and s*** themselves before rubbing it all over themselves but when it comes to our side we have to be perfect angels 100% or everything we've ever said is just bulls*** apparently.

I also hate the idea that when the other side does something, it's bad, but when our side does something, it's justified.

False equivalency.

I don't want anything taken away from them, or them to face any punishment.

I just think they're pieces of s***.

Republicans: Screw those poor, they deserve what they get for being lazy
Democrats: Screw those poor, they deserve it for voting for Trump

????
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I'd rather worry about doing right by people rather than whether or not they think I'm a delicate little snowflake cuck.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I'd rather worry about doing right by people rather than whether or not they think I'm a delicate little snowflake cuck.

This.
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BowserCuffs posted...

Republicans: Screw those poor, they deserve what they get for being lazy
Democrats: Screw those poor, they deserve it for voting for Trump

Another false equivalency.

One of those is false (poor people are poor because they're lazy).
One of those is LITERALLY TRUE (poor people who voted Trump voted against their own interests).
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Somebody being an a****** to you doesn't mean you have to be an a****** to them

The second you are, you lose ANY right to get on any f***ing high horse

Either you be the better person, or you admit you're a jackass, too. It can't be both.

If you feel like it's your right to be an a****** back... You're right, it is and you can.

But don't then EVER pull the holier than thou s***, because you're not.
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The hivemind here is so strong that no one is even questioning that maybe cutting social welfare programs won't actually hurt the poor. Welfare reform in the 90s certainly did not put more people in poverty.
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