Board 8 > The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Topic #2: Thirsty for Link Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

I dunno when I think of the windwaker sailing theme, that one never got old or repetitive to me and it was tailor made for just wandering around without much to do in any direction
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Yes. And it fit well when you consider the entire ocean was essentially one setpiece.

Pulling off the same with this game would require at least ten sailing themes, from what little I've played so far. And that's not even mentioning transitions, cues, etc
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I'm saying pure silence would be more bold. What are you even talking about?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Pulling off the same with this game would require at least ten sailing themes, from what little I've played so far. And that's not even mentioning transitions, cues, etc

They LITERALLY did this! There's lots of music and some of the best night/day transitions ever, plus lots of cues for events, and ambiance of animals and such. That's why the towns and the castle are so awesome to hang around and explore. The soundtrack has all this stuff and it's amazing.

Just when you're out in the field, there's not enough ambiance from nature, and the random jingles don't fit well. Lots of open world games have minimal soundtracks that focus on ambiance, this one just doesn't feel right. Makes me want to go somewhere more interesting.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

cheesy kid adventure game

oh now this game is a serious mature survival adventure huh? not that childish junk that Zelda used to be

Like fine, you love everything about this game and it's flawless. Just stop s***ting all over all the previous Zeldas (and parts of this game too). It's so unnecessary.
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On my computer so I can speak more accurately instead of being on s***ty mobile GameFAQs.


Boldness is completely unimportant. It would be pretty bold to make Link super obese, have bright pink hair, and spend half the game sucking on peoples' toes. Doesn't mean it's important at all, or has anything to do with good design decision.


When I speak of sailing themes, I mean ones giving the same general grandeur of adventure. The sailing theme is just the traditional overworld theme presented in a new manner that fits very well, and serves as that concrete central track to bring the whole world together.

With the size and variety of this world, that would be pointless. It would be dumb to have one general track for most of the open world exploration. Even OoT's Hyrule Field, which is one of my favorites and has tons of material wouldn't have enough for that. So you would need multiple tracks serving this purpose, which becomes more resource intensive and harder to pull off. Not to mention it completely kills the whole tone of the game.


Tone is pretty much the key point in this discussion anyway. Earlier on, and maybe from others' posts, it seemed like the argument was needing more full musical tracks, especially for the vast majority of the world. It's an empty dead world. When that emptiness disappears (villages, mini-boss fights, guardians, riding a horse, certain other situations) then music happens, and it sells the game. Music in villages is worthless without the silence of the world. The difference between "you're out in the wild on your own" and "hey, a bastion of civilization!" is incredibly important in a game like this.

The "random jingles" serve to add to the ambience - a little bit at a time, giving a bit to the mood of the world without being overbearing or leaving it completely desolate.


And I never said I love everything about this game and it's flawless! Don't put words in my mouth, that makes for a poor discussion :P


The sound design in this game is great. The music tracks when they play are great too. It fits very well. The first alternative that comes to mind would be some of the music used in Skyrim, but then once again you're trying to apply a definition to this Hyrule that simply isn't correct.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Makes me want to go somewhere more interesting.

This literally makes my point for me as well.

It's that much more important/noticeable/whatever when you find a village, a guardian, a mini-boss, ride a horse, etc...

Running around in the fields isn't the most exciting thing and I don't need music to try to convince me otherwise. Riding a horse around those fields is more exciting. Finding an escape from the desolace to a village is exciting. Finding a shrine and exploring it is exciting. Walking around the quiet fields then bam a Stone Talus pops out of the ground?

etc
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Aaaaand flooding posts but moving on from necluda with:

17 shrines
109 seeds
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foolm0r0n posted...

oh now this game is a serious mature survival adventure huh? not that childish junk that Zelda used to be

Like fine, you love everything about this game and it's flawless. Just stop s***ting all over all the previous Zeldas (and parts of this game too). It's so unnecessary.

Outside of the cartoon and CD-i, it's never aimed to be particularly childish or cheesy, at least outside of small moments. I'd say it has a fairly serious main plot and by extension didn't really have much humor in the early days, but that's arguably more of a limitation especially for the NES titles. And not being childish doesn't make it mature either. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I guess blood moons are pretty glitched? They definitely aren't supposed to be occurring that frequently.

I tried cooking during one last night and confirmed that food heals more. I didn't noticed a change in affects (like how long you get an attack bonus from a mighty food).

And I know we're all overpowered in this topic and don't need it, but I'm pretty sure the best food combo in the game is Durian + any meat. Durians are super plentiful in Faron, and a single Durian with one piece of beef/bird meat (regardless of quality), is an automatic Full Heal +4. Unless you're facing enemies that can one-shot you, you never even need to bother with defense boosting foods.

You can get the same thing by just cooking a durian by itself! They're easy to farm north of the Faron tower, too; they're basically my exclusive healing source.
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Oh oops didn't realize there was another page and that had already been mentioned!
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kevwaffles posted...

Outside of the cartoon and CD-i, it's never aimed to be particularly childish or cheesy, at least outside of small moments.

I agree. I'm not the one calling previous Zeldas cheesy kids games. This is one of the cheesiest ones and it's great when it embraces that.
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The humor in this game kills me. I thought Zelda's had pretty fanciful humor since LttP.
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We need that CD-i remake

https://i.imgur.com/FYuzCdO.jpg
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I can't put my finger on why, but Kass is one of the coolest looking characters I've seen in a while. They did a great job drawing him up.
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foolm0r0n posted...

kevwaffles posted...

Outside of the cartoon and CD-i, it's never aimed to be particularly childish or cheesy, at least outside of small moments.

I agree. I'm not the one calling previous Zeldas cheesy kids games. This is one of the cheesiest ones and it's great when it embraces that.

Obviously, we're talking about completely different things here.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Boldness is completely unimportant. It would be pretty bold to make Link super obese, have bright pink hair, and spend half the game sucking on peoples' toes. Doesn't mean it's important at all, or has anything to do with good design decision.

Boldness is an emotion that you can design for, if you want. It's not always appropriate, sure, but you need it for a certain feeling.

I think for a feeling of adventure, you need boldness, because it creates surprise and discomfort, which you can then overcome and feel the sense of adventure. It's no coincidence that one of the greatest features that people are raving about is one of the boldest: the lack of any map icons when climbing a tower, forcing you to look around to place markers. More of that is absolutely necessary. I think if you boil down all my criticisms of this game, it comes to this one thing: the game is severely lacking that bold feeling of adventure. That tower thing just doesn't cut it alone (especially since the feeling is highly weakened by the giant orange glowing locations).

HanOfTheNekos posted...

The "random jingles" serve to add to the ambience - a little bit at a time, giving a bit to the mood of the world without being overbearing or leaving it completely desolate.

No they don't, that's my whole argument. They're random and not cohesive with each other (for being too far apart) and not cohesive with the world (for being too sharp and jarring). If these were implemented better, I wouldn't be complaining about lack of music. I'm not asking for god damn hyrule field playing on repeat everywhere you go. Though yes, it would be an improvement from what is there.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's an empty dead world.

This is the main problem though. It's NOT empty and dead. Maybe central hyrule towards the castle is - and the silence there works great, especially when the sharp sounds of the guardians pierce the silence to evoke true danger. But the rest of the world has lots of grass and life and stuff in it. Isn't that what everyone is raving about the game for? Having so much stuff in every inch of the map?

So then why is it good that I feel bored and uninterested in a large portion of the map? I know there's great stuff out there, but if I just stick to the towns and such, I'll miss it all. That's straight up bad, and not at all what the developers wanted. I shouldn't want to go to a town because I'm BORED, I should want to go because I'm excited about what's there.

But no, the world isn't empty and dead, I don't think anyone would agree with that, and you would call them a dirty Zelda hater if they did. It is, however, anemic and sparse. A couple trees here and there. A couple mushrooms. A couple random piano notes. It all comes together to form a really underwhelming open world experience, especially compared to others.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's that much more important/noticeable/whatever when you find a village, a guardian, a mini-boss, ride a horse, etc...

Sure. And the horse riding music IS great and achieves that ambiance they are going for. But exciting music will be exciting no matter what. I think using silence as a break from music is WAY stronger. One of the greatest feelings is in Assassin's Creed when you're climbing a tall building and it's all loud and bustling and as you get higher it fades out and it's just the wind, you truly feel the height. I never got that feeling from BOTW when climbing, since it's just all the same. Not a huge deal really, but AC came out 10 years ago...
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Sorry fool, but your opinion doesn't matter because you're a dirty zelda hater
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o no
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Progress:

105 shrines
450 seeds (halfway there! Also maxed out inventory finally)
3 dungeons
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See, I and most other people disagree with almost everything you said foolmo. You don't find that odd?
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Waluigi1 posted...

See, I and most other people disagree with almost everything you said foolmo. You don't find that odd?

"Fool, do you find it odd that you don't share the opinion of everyone else in the world? Don't you know all gamers have a hivemind opinion that you're not allowed to differ from?"
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Terastodon posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

See, I and most other people disagree with almost everything you said foolmo. You don't find that odd?

"Fool, do you find it odd that you don't share the opinion of everyone else in the world? Don't you know all gamers have a hivemind opinion that you're not allowed to differ from?"

Yeah cause that's exactly what I said.
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Huh, one of my friends complained about the escort mission in this game, but if they're talking about the one on Death Mountain, that was actually really easy? Plus even if you screw up the consequence are like...a heart of damage? Plus you can just destroy all the enemies if you don't want to use stealth. It wasn't as good as the other Divine Beast approaches, but I had way more problems with the stealth mission in the Korok Forest than this...
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It was so easy that you can get to the end and not have progressed the divine beast at all. It was mostly just annoying.
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Oh huh, yeah I could see that happening. I do love Yunobo just bouncing right back if you miss with the cannon though.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

I had way more problems with the stealth mission in the Korok Forest than this...

My least favorite quest of the game so far.

Anyway, been a while since my last update

72/120
79/900
5/12 (gotta start working on these)
1/4

I've made progress toward entering all three other dungeons, but I haven't picked one to commit to. I've also been farming Lynels to upgrade the Barbarian armor. Speaking of which... are Lynel parts required for anything else?
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I just met Yunobo. I'm a little upset that I didn't realize you could move the cannons until the end. I used ice arrows but it would have been way more fun to do it the other way.
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Waluigi1 posted...

See, I and most other people disagree with almost everything you said foolmo. You don't find that odd?

Not really. Most people disagree just by saying "yeah well I don't mind it" which is fine, but isn't a reason for me to change my mind at all.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

See, I and most other people disagree with almost everything you said foolmo. You don't find that odd?

Not really. Most people disagree just by saying "yeah well I don't mind it" which is fine, but isn't a reason for me to change my mind at all.

And nobody argues it by saying you're a dirty zelda hater who doesn't love the game they worship like a God, but that doesn't stop you from pretending that's what they do!
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I'm a dirty Zelda hater. I have liked literally zero 3D Zelda games that aren't Hyrule Warriors.
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No way Rock, you're totally a respectable zelda hater!
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o_________________O
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Nah I just don't enjoy the 3D Zelda formula. BotW is the only game I'm really into because it largely abandons what made a 3D Zelda a 3D Zelda.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Mac Arrowny posted...

I had way more problems with the stealth mission in the Korok Forest than this...

My least favorite quest of the game so far.

Anyway, been a while since my last update

72/120
79/900
5/12 (gotta start working on these)
1/4

I've made progress toward entering all three other dungeons, but I haven't picked one to commit to. I've also been farming Lynels to upgrade the Barbarian armor. Speaking of which... are Lynel parts required for anything else?

the plate mail needs some
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

And nobody argues it by saying you're a dirty zelda hater who doesn't love the game they worship like a God

A lot have, irl too

But often I get the even worse argument - it's just not my kind of game. No, the Witcher 3 is not my kind of game. This one is just super flawed. Or, I'm just playing it wrong. Because it's the best game ever made where you can get do anything you want, except for what I'm doing.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Nah I just don't enjoy the 3D Zelda formula. BotW is the only game I'm really into because it largely abandons what made a 3D Zelda a 3D Zelda.

Yeah I've had a lot of people say I'm a Zelda hater because I don't like BOTW but I do love SS, MM, WW, OOT, LTTP, ALBW, etc. I ask then which Zeldas they like and they say they played a few hours of WW and that's it, but they really like BOTW. I guess that's what it means to be a Zelda fan now.
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foolm0r0n posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

And nobody argues it by saying you're a dirty zelda hater who doesn't love the game they worship like a God

A lot have, irl too

But often I get the even worse argument - it's just not my kind of game. No, the Witcher 3 is not my kind of game. This one is just super flawed. Or, I'm just playing it wrong. Because it's the best game ever made where you can get do anything you want, except for what I'm doing.

I mean, if you find a bunch of flaws with the game that don't bother other people, isn't that kinda saying that it's just not your kind of game?
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No, unless my kind of game is "game without a ton of critical flaws", which I guess it is. But the flaws have nothing to do with opinion or whether I or anyone enjoyed it.

Besides, the "no one else agrees" argument is by far the weakest possible thing since it's trivial to find other people who agree with me. But basing your opinion on what other people think is why people send death threats when the 98 turns into a 97. So I'm gonna avoid that.
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What are all the critical flaws?
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Which flaws have nothing to do with opinion?

Because if they're flaws that a lot of people don't agree are flaws, or don't mind them, then it's kinda hard to call them "critical flaws" and say people are just... Wrong about them.
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Do you want me to copy/paste the thousands of words I have posted in this topic?
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I don't see how you're any more "absolutely correct" than anyone who thinks linearity is game design's greatest sin as the main argument for why every 3D Zelda before this sucked.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Because if they're flaws that a lot of people don't agree are flaws, or don't mind them, then it's kinda hard to call them "critical flaws" and say people are just... Wrong about them.

Yeah a lot of people see a flaw as something they don't like, but that's a bad definition. It's just something that fails the design goals, nothing opinionated about it. I guess there could be an opinion on what the design goals actually are though, like Han thinking they wanted an empty and dead world, but I think they wanted it full of life and nature.
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foolm0r0n posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Because if they're flaws that a lot of people don't agree are flaws, or don't mind them, then it's kinda hard to call them "critical flaws" and say people are just... Wrong about them.

Yeah a lot of people see a flaw as something they don't like, but that's a bad definition. It's just something that fails the design goals, nothing opinionated about it. I guess there could be an opinion on what the design goals actually are though, like Han thinking they wanted an empty and dead world, but I think they wanted it full of life and nature.

Aaah, yeah. That makes sense.

I took it as somebody saying there were a ton of indisputable flaws, not "flaws are things you shouldn't be able to dispute." I agree with that.
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kevwaffles posted...

I don't see how you're any more "absolutely correct" than anyone who thinks linearity is game design's greatest sin as the main argument for why every 3D Zelda before this sucked.

Because they just don't like linearity, it's not their kind of game. If they argued that the linearity prevented the game from having a true sense of adventure, then that's a fine argument, like the one I'm making. But there are plenty of arguments for why linearity helped the sense of adventure in previous Zeldas and other games, just like there are arguments for why BOTW's implementation of open world dulled the sense of adventure, despite open world typically being associated with adventure.
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Thinking about it, I may agree with Han a bit more on what kind of world it's supposed to be, for the fact that people seem to kinda be in encampments of some sort a lot, and a lot of people traveling or walking about speak of how dangerous it is to do so.

To me, that makes it feel like... The world is supposed to be kinda dead, save for monsters, and as the one traveling through all of it, you/Link are the one that's supposed to find any beauty/life in said world.
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foolm0r0n posted...

like Han thinking they wanted an empty and dead world, but I think they wanted it full of life and nature.

It is both!

The more I play, the more Hylians I find wandering around which dulls the idea, but still. You awake on the great plateau with one person there, surrounded by nature and ruins. You leave, and you continue to find ruins, ruined guardians, monsters, sprawling land and nature.

There are bastions of civilization, but for the most part, the world is largely devoid of human effect. My use of the word "dead" in this sense is more the difference between being in the middle of the woods vs the middle of a bustling city. Maybe not the best word choice, but not too hard to understand my meaning unless you're looking to argue against it I suppose.

foolm0r0n posted...

Do you want me to copy/paste the thousands of words I have posted in this topic?

Yes
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I see the intent being that the world lost, and hard 100 years ago. It's not dead, per say, but it's still recovering. There are things in the world that are exciting and beautiful, but it's not a world full of adventure, it's a world full of pockets of life that are trying to gain a footing.

The map in BotW feels like what we were expecting from TP Hyrule Field and in that regard it's excellent, but TP had more than just Hyrule Field.
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Beat the game last night. Hyrule Castle was fantastic, ending was good enough. I did get all the memories, so I'm not sure how much worse the ending is without them.

I try to reserve games I consider a 10/10 for those I find few flaws in that are just truly amazing in almost every way. I don't think that really applies to Breath of the Wild, because there were a few too many frustrating/boring segments with only decent combat and one or two bizarre design decisions. But what it does right, it does better, and got me hooked harder, than any other game I've ever played. It had been 15 years since I'd stayed up all night to play a game because I just didn't want to put it down. I'll have to let it sit just a bit to see what I think later, but for now, I'm going to say somewhere in the 9.5/10 range.
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All 4 dungeons finished update

130 hours
100 shrines
395 korok seeds

still quite a bit of world map for me to explore and I'm sure the final 20 shrines are there so I'll be doing those before I head for Ganon
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Beat the game last night. Hyrule Castle was fantastic, ending was good enough. I did get all the memories, so I'm not sure how much worse the ending is without them.

I try to reserve games I consider a 10/10 for those I find few flaws in that are just truly amazing in almost every way. I don't think that really applies to Breath of the Wild, because there were a few too many frustrating/boring segments with only decent combat and one or two bizarre design decisions. But what it does right, it does better, and got me hooked harder, than any other game I've ever played. It had been 15 years since I'd stayed up all night to play a game because I just didn't want to put it down. I'll have to let it sit just a bit to see what I think later, but for now, I'm going to say somewhere in the 9.5/10 range.

Oh man I thought the combat was incredible. Using bows along with swords was a blast. Usually I would just go in and blast the melee button but in this game there was a lot of advantage to using both. Critical hits to the head to stun, then go in and shuck and jive. Not to mention using the slate that adds sooo much more to it.

As for the ending, I beat it first with 2 memories left then went back and finished it again after getting those memories. Without all of the memories the ending ends when Zelda asks if Link truly remembers her so you miss that last scene with the silent princess and all that.

Edit: also, on the combat, it was so much fun before I had gear to take on guardians properly. Run in, stasis, chop off legs and hope I didn't miss. It was a thrill
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