Board 8 > So, I finally got Virtue's Last Reward! [playthrough] [rabbits]

(+) Yeah! (+)

DeathChicken posted...

And suddenly all of the women being skeeved out by Sigma's flirting (besides Luna) takes a different meaning

haha christ, so it does. I like that this series has turned both of their principled, moral main characters into creepy old men. hurray for Japan.
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Have you collected all of the Gold files? Beaten every puzzle room under Hard?
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I had to change history. We could save the world.

I jump, for possibly the final time, to April 13th 2029, the day of the Radical-6 outbreak. we open with the sounds of screams and industrial clanging, and witness a newscaster - friends, family and co-workers dead - blow out her brains on live TV.

we stare stunned at the screen, and turn around to find Akane, looking beautiful and tragic in her Zero garb, standing behind us. she explains our setting: we are about to depart for the moon, alongside three treatment pods bearing frozen Alice, Clover and Phi - a volunteer esper. they will still look young in 45 years, but Sigma cannot; he must spend the time mastering genetic engineering, and planning the Nonary Game that will save the world. when he finishes the preparations, his younger consciousness will push him out of his body and into that of his younger self, whereupon he can proceed to save the world.

Sigma then asks how to do so, and Akane can only tell him to infiltrate the test site where Radical-6 broke out. she can't help me any more than that. it will be perilous, without question - Old Sigma told her that it was full of traps, and that he lost his arms and an eye in the process.

Sigma looks down in panic and disbelief at his crippled cybernetic body (actually, should it be crippled at this point? I get lost in these timelines), but a low rumble cuts off his crisis and fills the room. Sigma looks out of the window to see a mushroom cloud erupting in the distance.

he could change history. he had to.

END... or BEGINNING?
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Have you collected all of the Gold files? Beaten every puzzle room under Hard?

was vaguely aware that this might be important, so I tidied up the last one (the very first AB room, somehow) before I started. did that give me any new ending scenes or something?

and, uh, wow. not sure where to even start with this! any questions?
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There is one last story segment to see but I can't recall what the unlock condition for it is

I think you just need all of the Gold files. Beating every puzzle room on Hard might be necessary as well. The new scene option should just appear on the flow chart.
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Yeah, I think it's just clearing all of the rooms on Hard (which if you've cleared them already can be done by just going in, setting it to Hard and putting in the safe password you already have). Then something new should pop up under Phi's ending
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So a lot of things make sense all of a sudden. Remember how Junpei saw the hologram with Zero and then very suddenly turned on Sigma, betraying him so he could leave with Quark, stating that he was making sure the bastard behind all this got what was coming to him and how you were really upset that he would do something like that?
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Your Zero rankings amused me. Whenever someone guesses these in VLR, I basically give them credit according to the following:

Gold: Sigma. You win!
Silver: Akane/"someone else". Not incorrect, but not the "best" answer.
Bronze: Luna or K. Both conspirators, Luna has full access to the facility and is hooked up to the same mainframe as Zero III, so it's technically right - K is Akane in some timelines, so also technically right.

You originally had Sigma at 7 (hey, could have been worse), "someone else" at 3, Luna at 10 and K at 6. Nice! You did key into Luna, K, and the old woman being involved later (before it was revealed) and never quite ruled out Sigma (especially heading into the end), so not terrible.

5. Who is that old woman?
uh, search me. my initial crackpot theory was that she is Akane, and we've heard nothing to support or deny that since. so, hey, why not!

Nice! (Seems like you clued in that Tenmyouji is Junpei pretty early too)

2. Where are we? [answered]
I know this one! We're in a hole in the middle of the desert. In a facility that was almost certainly used to rear an army of clones.

"Answered" (this was probably the line that made me giggle the most in the whole topic)

I'm trying to remember other funny/on-point stuff you said

The world will be reshaped into the one you imagine!

I jump for a final final time into Another Time, where I awaken in the infirmary as Kyle with Luna standing over me. Kyle rushes to the mirror, verifies his identity, then surprises Luna with his knowledge, which should have been suppressed by the amnesia. he looks down to find Dio still handcuffed at the sink, and Luna explains that we are after Akane's garden explanation and crisis induction. Sigma's consciousness is now age-appropriate again, and the others have been treated for their Radical-6.

Kyle wanders to the PEC where he finds Tenmyouji and Quark, who tell him of their plans to return to Earth. Tenmyouji laments the lack of consideration given to his own life in the wake of Sigma's time-turning efforts, and mourns the death of the soul of the woman he loved.

Alice and Clover discuss their strange fate as unwilling but understanding puppets of a greater scheme - stuck in a dark timeline for the rest of their existence. they claim that Akane has found a way for them to return to their lives, but leave it elliptically there.

I find Phi in the Director's Office. she turns on a hologram, where Dr. Klim says that Phi knows everything and can answer everyone's questions. everyone, of course, except Kyle. Kyle then goes on to theorize about Phi's identity, a line of questioning which culminates in a conversation with Akane where it transpires that the consciousness of the player has entered Kyle's mind, and Kyle has returned to 2028 to help Sigma and Phi save the world.

Akane entrusts us, alongside Sigma and Phi, to do just that. maybe in another topic, hmm?

END... or BEGINNING?
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MrSmartGuy posted...

So a lot of things make sense all of a sudden. Remember how Junpei saw the hologram with Zero and then very suddenly turned on Sigma, betraying him so he could leave with Quark, stating that he was making sure the bastard behind all this got what was coming to him and how you were really upset that he would do something like that?

ha, cool. I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff like this. who else was in the room when the Zero hologram activated?

Paratroopa1 posted...

Your Zero rankings amused me. Whenever someone guesses these in VLR, I basically give them credit according to the following:

Gold: Sigma. You win!
Silver: Akane/"someone else". Not incorrect, but not the "best" answer.
Bronze: Luna or K. Both conspirators, Luna has full access to the facility and is hooked up to the same mainframe as Zero III, so it's technically right - K is Akane in some timelines, so also technically right.

You originally had Sigma at 7 (hey, could have been worse), "someone else" at 3, Luna at 10 and K at 6. Nice! You did key into Luna, K, and the old woman being involved later (before it was revealed) and never quite ruled out Sigma (especially heading into the end), so not terrible.

5. Who is that old woman?
uh, search me. my initial crackpot theory was that she is Akane, and we've heard nothing to support or deny that since. so, hey, why not!

Nice! (Seems like you clued in that Tenmyouji is Junpei pretty early too)

2. Where are we? [answered]
I know this one! We're in a hole in the middle of the desert. In a facility that was almost certainly used to rear an army of clones.

"Answered" (this was probably the line that made me giggle the most in the whole topic)

I'm trying to remember other funny/on-point stuff you said

haha, this is pretty fair! I think I did alright overall - definitely proud of my Akane deduction, though my secondary conclusion that Tenmyouji was Aoi didn't quite work out. my biggest issue in the endgame was assuming that "Zero Sr." didn't really matter once Akane was revealed; I think if I'd really logically thought it through at that stage (as TRE tried to push me to), I could probably have nailed Sigma. but yeah, lots of missteps along the way. I imagine that's pretty standard!

might post some retrospective thoughts tomorrow after sleeping on all this. if anyone has any questions or topics they'd like me to answer / discuss, then suggest away!
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There are so many little hints hiding out in plain sight. For instance, there's one time where Tenmyouji pulls Clover aside to have a chat, and after that, Clover is just like "I totally trust Tenmyouji, we have to ally with him" and it's just like, what's up with that? It's not the only weird moment he has with her either.

Also, the game FREQUENTLY makes reference to Sigma's age or appearance. In the Quark end Dio literally just calls Sigma a 'senile old fuck.' It's great how easily a line like that slips past you.

Giggsalot posted...

Sigma also learns that Luna placed Quark in the pod and Quark's bracelet by simply using aluminium foil to interfere with the electrical impulses of his heart. but it's only when he asks her about the very nature of the project that she breaks down. she blames herself for all the deaths, claiming she could have stopped them if only she had disobeyed her orders, but Sigma emphatically blames the old woman and Zero, absolving her of responsibility. she hugs Sigma, and reveals one final thing - that she was not in fact revived by Zero but hacked into the system herself, meaning her time is limited. her hair starts falling out, her skin starts to peel, and she thanks Sigma tearfully as she breathes her final robot breaths in his arms. The doctor's arms.

I chuckled a bit at this part, since it was more true than you probably intended. I was tempted to ask a question about it, but ultimately didn't want to draw attention to it.
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Also there's this illustration of Sigma with white hair and weird green flash on his right eye.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-KSGHU1KBe0/maxresdefault.jpg
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Paratroopa1 posted...

There are so many little hints hiding out in plain sight. For instance, there's one time where Tenmyouji pulls Clover aside to have a chat, and after that, Clover is just like "I totally trust Tenmyouji, we have to ally with him" and it's just like, what's up with that? It's not the only weird moment he has with her either.

Also, the game FREQUENTLY makes reference to Sigma's age or appearance. In the Quark end Dio literally just calls Sigma a 'senile old fuck.' It's great how easily a line like that slips past you.

I noticed all the Tenmyouji clues in retrospect, but it was only after reading this morning that I really caught the Sigma foreshadowing. it really is exceptionally cleverly done, even if I have slightly mixed feelings about the plot point itself.

which brings me, I suppose, to my overall thoughts!

at the risk of starting on a negative note, the plot resolution didn't capture me to the same extent 999's did. I loved the reveal of Sigma as Zero (I remember saying even from the start of this topic that it would be a cool premise), and it certainly deepened his character, but my instinct feels that it might have deepened it in a way that was to the detriment of his relationships with the other characters. Akane and Aoi still felt and acted like human beings (albeit weird ones) in 999, but by the end of VLR most of the main players felt like emotionally detached demigods. Sigma's relationship with characters like Luna and Phi, for example, completely turned on its head with the final reveal, which was in one sense cool but also kinda undermined what the game had built up to that point. I also find it off-putting that all the old men in this game are in some fashion totally creepy, regardless of their underlying moral character. maybe it's a Japanese thing, who knows.

the massive expansion of the scope of the plot kinda fell flat for me too - the homespun, low key motives for Akane and Aoi's 999 Nonary Game felt strikingly original and hit a bittersweet chord with me, so the incorporation in VLR of time-travelling superheroes and nuclear winters and saving the entirety of humankind through Nonary Games made it feel kind of impersonal and cliched. I'm also not a fan of when time travel gets too convoluted, so everything surrounding the diagram and the crazy timelines at the end left me fairly unmoved.
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*phew*

all that said, I think there were some stunningly rendered plot moments in the game, even on the seemingly minor paths. every major character, even those who retain a certain mystery, felt exceptionally well developed, and on that front the game arguably surpasses 999. on the other hand, I felt like the more minor characters suffered from a slight shift in storytelling format; VLR seemed to feature significantly less escape room banter than 999, which resulted in a higher proportion of plot mythology coming out in big isolated dumps. this didn't work badly, but it restricted the minor characters to more specific roles: Alice undoubtedly contributed more to her game's overall narrative than Lotus did, for example, but Lotus felt much more like a real person because she chatted about stuff outside of her prescribed role too. it's also bizarre to me that we've spent two full games with Clover, and she's lived an outrageous life, but we have almost no idea how she feels about any of it.

gameplay-wise, VLR was pretty obviously a massive step up from 999 - I don't think the gameplay will ever be the draw for these games, but this really was a joy to play. the flowchart was a god-send, and I largely liked the way they incorporated it into the plot (though the stuff at the end was a bit handwavey). the puzzles also seemed like a step up from 999 overall, though all the dice-based puzzles and anything involving tilting can go straight to hell.

overall, despite my negativity, I really liked this game! definite 8/10 stuff. I'd probably give 999 the edge because its overall story was more to my taste, but this was a worthy sequel that improved on it in many important ways. in some ways, this must have been nearly an impossible game to make, too - when you've made a game with a sting-in-the-tail plot, and reveal everything at the end, how do you then make a sequel with the same surprise factor? it's a pretty thankless task, and the coherence and thematic consistency of VLR is an impressive achievement regardless of my thoughts.

I was thinking of doing more retrospective stuff here, like character and/or ending rankings, but I think that might be more fun to do for the series as a whole once I complete the trilogy. any objections to that?

finally, huge thanks to everyone who followed this topic. it's been a fantastic experience documenting everything here, and the degree of interaction and fun probing questions has been brilliant. I will most likely tackle ZTD sometime this summer, and I'll definitely try to do it in the same way. look out for a topic!

...'til then, have a nice trap!
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Thanks for doing the topic. It was a really good read.
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Yeah, I really enjoyed this topic. Thanks for it!
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Great topic
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I enjoyed reading this topic and look forward to the sequel!
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Yeah, thanks for the topic!

Also, I wouldn't be opposed to a quick character ranking here (i.e. no write up) before a more comprehensive one later.
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