Board 8 > B8UCA Discussion Topic X-65: clever rumble/mania hype title

(+) Yeah! (+)

So it wasn't merely self-interest. It was "hey here's a cool Mania match and it makes no sense for Raven to keep the titles anyway". But hey if Tom wants to think that this is absolutely identical to the purely self-interested plundering that was WotR's 2012 reign then here. We disqualified ourselves. The userbase and their idiotic decision wins. Your little f***ing "I think he'd be better off with TEW at this point" post was so offensive to me you have no idea. I played that game and found it boring. It was beyond patronising to suggest that maybe TEW would be better because I didn't want Raven to be challenging for the Heavyweight Title while still defending as tag champ. It's f***ing ugly booking by any measure. That does not mean I need to control every aspect of the card. There is a difference between those two things and you utterly failed to thoughtfully consider any shades of grey there. I make f***ing suggestions and requests. People have always been free to nix an idea I have.

And I'm sorry, I know you aren't idiots, but that doesn't mean you're incapable of making idiotic decisions and voting eddv/Raven was one of those. I'm looking at @Apollo_Phoenix, @Strife2, even @Maniac64 here for making a decision I find almost unjustifiable. I'll excuse eaed and Sultan because of the obvious reasons. And Strife actually spending literal - literal - years b****ing about Tom winning the title from Korayashi on a random Combat and then being in favour of such awful booking was exceptionally rich.

Finally I'm generally unhappy with a lethargic userbase that never sets up non-title feuds, never goes after the IM title, rarely goes after the MELEE, and isn't forming new tag-teams (if these things have happened this year it is far far too rare so don't come at me with minute specific examples). I'm forcing it too much and for too long too much of the userbase has been content to let that happen. When I do see promos I find them aimless - what is your bottom line? Who are you feuding with? What's your endgame here? Is there one? Or is it to just cut another worked shoot because you're so cool, Sultan (for example)?

The one I blame here most of all is firstly myself for thinking my 2015 resignation was a good idea, for thinking @Solioxrz362, or anyone could succeed me. I knew after Epop 7 if was time to go. I knew eventually I'd grow to see UCA as a weekly chore rather than an enjoyable pasttime and I wanted to leave my responsibilities while still really liking the time I spent as boss. But I couldn't. I made myself too open to Solio, I was too weak to tell him "no, you committed to this - finish the job" and took back power when he buckled. And now we're at that exact point I didn't want to get to where I resent UCA, resent another Epopmania, and resent the users themselves.

I'd quit but I am terrified the edwards brothers would take over and while eddv would do a decent enough job but would eventually alienate everyone even more than I have, the other two would run it into the ground so deep that its remains would melt in the earth's fiery core. Solio was the only true successor and he let me down.

Tl;Dr- I care way too much about UCA, to the point that last year before Mania I got 1 hour of sleep before work and fell asleep because of it, went into work this past weekend just to get Rumble stuff because my laptop is broken, and to the point that I delayed a holiday to Thailand so I could run the Rumble last year. It's a responsibility I now resent, rather than relish.

Tl;Dr of the tl;dr: I won the title by tricking you all into believing I was Rad Link 5, suck it people who were legitimate worked by that awesome s***.
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kill the uca

XIII_rocks posted...

I was irritated by his very, very ignorant suggestion that I haven't changed in four years. WotR's record reign in 2012 was founded on the back of multiple rallies solely because we wanted the record. That was it. We wanted it and took it, through cheating, then lost the titles in a satisfactory angle. But mostly it was self-interest and wonton abuse of power for personal gain.

Then my mistake was overestimating your 2012 self. In both cases, I read the situation as a HHH-y kinda "this is best for UCA but golly wouldn't you know it somehow worked best to also benefit me." Even so, the point stands that your philosophy is more "this needs to be a logical card where there aren't any dumb booking issues" and mine is more "this needs to be a semi-legitimate competition where the voters have power and the contestants have agency." I would have absolutely let them be double-booked in that scenario. I'm not even saying one way is better than the other- there are users that like a tighter script, and there are users that like to have more control themselves.

XIII_rocks posted...

I played that game and found it boring.

which is why I also made several other suggestions

XIII_rocks posted...

I make f***ing suggestions and requests. People have always been free to nix an idea I have.

No point of this has been a suggestion or request. You threw a tantrum, cheated, and then went back on it while insisting it's not because people got annoyed. Like eaed pointed out, there are ways to try to avoid that scenario without just cheapening the competition. Have them defend every show. Slant the match descriptions. Give them some sort of choice. If everybody insists on going against smart booking after all that, well then goofy booking must be what they want. I haven't been back long enough to really get to know the userbase but if you're just gonna have a hissy fit and strip titles when things don't go your way it's not hard to imagine an unmotivated user base as a result.
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If I had won the Rumble I was going to give up the titles anyway - this is why despite being the one who got screwed I was okay with it. I felt pretty sure I was going to win.

And even still i was kinda okay with giving them up for the reasons XIII suggested.

Therefore i would like to propose a solution

Lets hold up the tag titles.

Raven cant defend them at epopmania and XIII screwed with the match so badly that no legitimate winner could be found anyway. You could do the Empire thing, and maybe toss in Apollo/Strife and me all by myself trying to retain yhe titles with no partner.
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Tom I've won the tag titles 10 f***ing times and overtaken Boko. I'm not motivated by seeing the f***ing italics next to my name anymore. The fact that you think I am is the whole problem.

Absolutely zero chance of an apology for your flagrant, offensive ignorance which only made things worse then? Fair enough, that's your call, but I did expect better. Disagree with what I did all you want but the ignorance in presuming you know me and "what I would prefer" when my tenure as admin here far outstrips yours was honestly surprisingly condescending and I'm even more surprised you haven't considered that and instead gone on the attack.
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Eddv posted...

If I had won the Rumble I was going to give up the titles anyway - this is why despite being the one who got screwed I was okay with it. I felt pretty sure I was going to win.

And even still i was kinda okay with giving them up for the reasons XIII suggested.

Therefore i would like to propose a solution

Lets hold up the tag titles.

Raven cant defend them at epopmania and XIII screwed with the match so badly that no legitimate winner could be found anyway. You could do the Empire thing, and maybe toss in Apollo/Strife and me all by myself trying to retain the titles with no partner.

Young Eddvard brings up a reasonable solution. While the two of us worked hard to become the tag team champions, I have no problem passing my title to someone else, someone who is willing to prepare for a new Broken Era when I achieve my destiny at the Most E-Popular of Manias!

(Or do whatever is fitting and helps everyone win in the long run)

I get what you were going for XIII, but in the end this is a project based around user votes deciding matches. If those users want double-booking over good storylines then that is what they will get. There have been plenty of times I have been annoyed that match results hurt storylines or didn't follow the storyline but that is the way it goes. I personally would rather see double booked Epop that was what was voted in then matches forced in by the people running it against the wishes of the voters.

As for why I voted the way I did? I assure you I thought about the double booking thing(and I am seldom a fan of it). But to me WotR is so overplayed that I would rather the storyline be that the Flock may be overextending themselves then "Look, WotR is back and still the best tag team!". Yes the storyline you had with Empire was better than that, but I couldn't be sure that wasn't what it would be and I am still kind of tired of WotR. My honest thought when I saw you had a mystery partner was "please don't let it just be a WotR reunion". I'm sure this won't make my decision better in your eyes but that is how I saw it.

So yeah, I totally get why you did it but I don't think it was the right way to go about it. I also wish you had just continued with your Empire storyline following the DQ loss (it could even work well in the storyline) but it seems like you are going to just abort it now.

Yeah, users are largely doing less. Its unfortunate but it happens. The whole board is doing less imo. I know I certainly am doing less though I still try doing stuff when I can or when I have an idea. Eaed and I still need some more tag matches since our tag team formed and then basically never got booked.

Finally, you definitely care to much about UCA. Don't let this take over your life to that extent. You already know it just ruins your enjoyment of the project and life outside of it. Its better to walk away and let it potentially die imo. I'm honestly surprised it has gone on this long.
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if we're being real, I'm sorry the UCA is causing you this much stress and trouble. Its tough to have to make something a priority or almost priority when you know it can't be everybody else's. For me, it very much has become just a fun thing on the side that I neglect when things get busy (recently they've gotten busier and busier), but I admit I didn't think about how that makes things harder for you when it comes to putting things together (I probably would have been much less casual about my mania plans if I did consider that).

as for my vote, honestly, I didn't think about the long-term storyline, I just thought it was another hokey "whiskey on the rocks is so great and awesome we can be champs whenever" XIII storyline and passed on it. Maybe others felt similarly?

Strife and I were discussing mania plans earlier today though (where my "midcard" match will be the true main event, so no need to worry about lack of star power quality).
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And anyway the key point you're missing here is that I backed down and let the people have their dumb result at the cost of those precious italics and my Mania angle.

I had to really consider whether I had changed because you boiled it down so simply to "you're rigging a match to win the tag titles". But the circumstances are different. And there's also stuff like how much I hated the rallying (until I got impatient) whereas back then I saw no problem with it at all. So I feel like I have quite a bit. You ignorantly saying I'm still the same guy as in 2012 really rubbed me the wrong way too, and then there was that TEW garbage
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I have no problem with whatever plan you wanted. My issue was "Hey, WOTR came back, isn't that awesome?"

Here's what you didn't understand. You (the character and the person) don't need the titles anymore. You have every record. You are doing this for the fun of it now. What you assumed was "Hey. Nick and I are better than everyone. Isn't that great guys?" The storyline you proposed is a "character feud." You do not need the tag titles to sell that feud. The latter half of the David situation is proof you don't need that. I'm not criticizing your abilities as a performer or booker. Despite my MANY personal grudges, you are very good. I'm criticizing your methods to get there.

Basically, I'm with Maniac. You and Nick can say and do whatever the hell you want. You guys don't need to piss over Eddv and Raven's title reign to do it.

Everyone also knows that I cannot live down that Hardcore match situation. However, I have never done anything like that since. I have maintained since that day that I have and will pull my own weight. So much so that I beat every single opponent the right way, leading up to my last match. Find anyone who had a better win-loss record than me in 2014 during my crazy run towards Survivor Series. That was as organic a push as you'll find. One I hoped would do something to salve my previous reputation. I am very irritable and emotional, but I did everything I could to f***ing win voters over.

So my stance is to do everything legit, even if it makes no goddamn sense booking wise, even if it doesn't help me or Apollo. Mostly because this IS a competition. That competition piece is what drives me nuts. But I stand by voting decisions.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Absolutely zero chance of an apology for your flagrant, offensive ignorance which only made things worse then?

I don't think I have done much of anything wrong, and the mistakes I do recognize, I'm not inclined to apologize for while you're still being a jerk.

XIII_rocks posted...

presuming you know me and "what I would prefer"

I mean, we collaborated for several years, and you actively demonstrated "what you'd prefer." Maybe your motivations have changed (again, this is as much an issue with me having previously overestimated you as with my currently underestimating you) but the actions you had taken at that point were textbook XIII. At every point I've worked with you, you've had more plans and scripts than I did. (or would have) I'll grant that maybe your personality and motivations changed while I was gone, but the only evidence I've seen of that is your word, and the obvious burnout.

XIII_rocks posted...

my tenure as admin here far outstrips yours

I backed away before I got to the point where I was publically chewing out my helpers and userbase.

XIII_rocks posted...

surprisingly condescending

is this a card you really wanna play after complaining about the voters being idiots and wrong so you have to save them from themselves

XIII_rocks posted...

gone on the attack.

well if you think I was on the attack that's our first issue. I thought about pasting the discord convo originally, but decided nothing good would come of it and resolved to let it die if I could. The screenshots came up, and I tried to steer the convo towards "I can see where he's coming from" rather than "that egomaniac rigged himself to win more titles again" which I thought was going to be a much more common reaction. I saw it as an opportunity to discuss the philosophy of running the thing before riots occurred. I understood where you were coming from, and tried to communicate that. NOW I'm getting heated though.

Also, pretty much everything Maniac said. This is very obviously not fun for you anymore, and it's not going to be fun for anybody else at this rate. I don't know what would happen if you stepped away, but it seems like it'd be best for you to do so, whether or not it's best for UCA.
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also for the record since it keeps coming up for some reason: I would not have booked that title match if I thought I'd had a snowball's chance of winning. It was a joke match that played into my character at the time.
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I mean lets be real I dont NEED the titles either at this point but the bubbling feud with eaed and maniac made them decent props until maniac stopped posting as much and Raven won Ultimatum (and even if he hadnt i probably would have, I gave it up to give us a shot at what i still feel was the best possible mania main event given the current state of the fed)
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The "Tom title match" thing is something I get ragged on, so here's my point. Tom SHOULDN'T be champion from a "logic" standpoint. That was until he beat Sultan and proved he belonged. Shut my mouth really quickly. I know you're talking about the Kora match too, but I'm also bringing the recent match into this discussion.

I would prefer a half/half system. Rankings matter. Pushes matter. DP SHOULD be champion, because he's been killing people left and right. His next challenger SHOULD be Raven, because he made it through Ultimatum. I wanted desperately for Apollo to have those spots, but it didn't happen. So whatever. We do other things. If a guy is on a good run, great. Make him a contender. If you have a story or a character that is catching fire, use it. But just giving matches away to random winners for the "lolz" is just weird. The Rumble was great, because I had no issue with Eddv or DP winning at all. They were guys who have been on rolls.

Sure, the "win out of nowhere" could work, but only if a person really uses it to their advantage. Changes their persona, gets a fire lit under their ass, whatever. That's my concern. This should be story driven. If you aren't story driven, then you shouldn't be winning, no matter how cool you are. But votes are votes, provided that's how competition is gonna be.

That said, more often than not, people DO give votes to the characters in most cases. Just not always.
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Ah, as for this shot, I wouldn't have taken it if I hadn't felt I belonged. I put myself in a match or two against top guys and my performance there pretty much made my decision- if I got beat like the career midcarder I am, I would've been content to stay LW champ.

Then I reverted to my usual power level in the actual title shot
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I don't want the job of running this. That's why I tried to support Solio, even when everyone was hard on him because whoever replaces XIII, if it ever happens, has gigantic shoes to fill. Not to mention over the past couple of months that my own interest is fading because sometimes I just don't have the time to get on the computer or forget to post all together. Not to say I haven't. I really wanted to get the fun vs the broken angle going but Maniac and I would never get booked together.

I'm not against admitting my faults, I should have stopped when Tom told me to stop on Sunday but I just wanted to make sure that everyone got a fair shake. Ever since that stupid hardcore match I just want everyone to get their fair shake, even if it isn't best for the company. So I apologize for that whole investigation thing.

Finally, Steiner said kill the UCA, and he may have been kidding or serious, it doesn't matter. There might be time soon where maybe we should consider closing up shop. My father once told me to not do anything half-assed or half-hearted. If we cannot improve then maybe it is time. I personally will not allow board life to effect me out here. I have too many people counting on me.
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But that's probably more about DP than you specifically. The LW title run was very long, and it translated to a lot of people thinking you should be a HW contender. I didn't think that was true, until it actually happened.

The issue I have is this competition is always down to insane luck. You cannot predict anything. You cannot book anything, and just have to hope you get what you want and plan multiple scenarios.

I mean, if you wanted it to be wrestling, the competitive component would not be here. It's a wrestling/UFC hybrid. Both real, but not real. However, we shouldn't forget that we aren't trying to actively f*** people over while trying to be the best.
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Tom's title victory vs. Kora gave me my first title shot so I was a-okay with it in the end!
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I really wanted to get the fun vs the broken angle going but Maniac and I would never get booked together.

I booked you guys on UCA Underground to try and jumpstart something.
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like at no point have I doubted you had UCA's best interests in mind. (apparently I should've in 2012?) A lot of the times back in the day, UCA's interests would conveniently align with your own, but they were always legitimately good ideas. Me seeing 2012 XIII (while you are actively rigging for a WotR title win which would be Best For Business) isn't supposed to be some sort of accusation or insult, because I don't have any beef with 2012 XIII other than creative differences and some unresolved rallying allegations. And while I did not like the decision to rig the title match here, it was not a personal issue with you either for me.

I just have always perceived you as someone with a very different approach to it than I have, and I don't think I'm wrong about that and I don't mean it as some sort of condescending value judgment. I let stuff happen. You like to steer towards interesting stuff. That's always been a difference between us, and one that we had been able to work through in the past without real issue.

Your approach did better for UCA when you first took over than mine did, but I felt (and still do) that if you're going that far towards the controlling end of the spectrum that maybe you'd be happier in a setting where you wouldn't have as many obstacles between you and your plans. That's all I was trying to say with the TEW bit. You have cool plans, but get frustrated when they are foiled, and there are other creative wrestling-related outlets where that is not nearly as much of an issue as it is here.
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As both the newest and most under-qualified person to be speaking here, I'll say that for the most part, 90% of my votes are what I believe would be the better storyline victory, other than my own matches.

I also tend to vote for people who participate more, both because I feel like they should be rewarded for participating and usually because they tend to deserve the win more, and I realize that sometimes that clashes with the first point I made.

In terms of the tag match, I totally forgot about the potential double booking down the line, and so my reasoning for not voting for WotR was a combination of my first two points, and also because for me Eddv/Raven was a more credible team. Again, because I'm newer than everyone else my views on who I think is more credible at any time is different from others because any time someone who has a storied history shows up I can't really gauge it because I wasn't here during their time.

As far as XIII's other point about kind of just cutting generic promos and not going for anything, I'll be the first to admit that my character has gotten super stale, but at this point in the season it doesn't make sense to change things up until after Mania. As for the second point, I feel like I don't really have enough tenure or credibility to kind of call my own shots and seek out my own title feuds, which is kind of why I can get pretty generic until something like that is set up for me, however I do like to think that anytime I have been in a meaningful feud I've done enough to make it personal.

I am committed here, though. I don't plan on being anything but super involved in the UCA in the future.
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*Forgot something, and can't edit another post...f****

XIII, I'm shocked you even added me in that rant. When have I not voted against you? I swear it's been maybe 2-3 times in 4 years. Once over Luster recently, but before that, f*** if I know.
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I really like you and your outlook, David.
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Eddv posted...

maniac stopped posting as much

Sorry about that. I really was enjoying the Flood vs Fun feud, wish I could have done more and that it had gone somewhere.

Hopefully after Epop.
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david is good people
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I have sat back just sitting reading things people have to say.

It sounds like you know what 13 wants people who actually try like me to quit. yeah I made you some generic promos from time to time but that's f****** wrestling dumbass people do that to build characters and how do you build a character promo.

Not all promos are gold or whatever but who cares I have won the Undisputed Championship twice in the last year I've had some pretty fun fueds with people that have talked to me like Maniac when he was Luchador black with really fun. out of the hole turning zero signal into Raven thing I was a part of just name two things that are really enjoyed over the past year.

I'm not sure what 13 has against me but I try I have fun and that's all that matters at least that's what I thought it should have been and I feel like some people have enjoyed me being here and that's why they vote for me and that's why they wanted to start angles with me.

So here it is people

Sultan leaves- of you don't want me in the UCA anymore vote Sultan leaves

Sultan Stays- you want me to stay votes Sultan Stays
Easy vote form

Sultan leaves vs Sultan stays
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I really wanted to get the fun vs the broken angle going but Maniac and I would never get booked together.

And this is another thing that bothers me. Who against? What's the angle? What exactly do you want? And do I prioritise your team, or Maniac's MELEE thing/whatever angle you're running?

I apologise if you didn't get booked enough as a team because that is on me, but I don't know what's in your head. I need specifics. Gravy did this once too - complained about not being booked in this match or that match but he didn't make any clear inclinations that he wanted it. Challenge people to matches. Create content for me beyond promos. I'd love it if Ruin had no "random" matches and that they all flowed logically from the week before or the show before but that's really only possible the first show after a PPV.

I'm just saying these complaints go both ways. It's what I was talking about with aimless promos kinda. Like look WWE might not have good writing but at least when they have an opening promo to start Raw, there's some kind of development - a PPV match is changed or the main event of the night is made. Give me something clear to go on is what I'm saying. Otherwise I'll pretty much just book what's in front of me.

Also there's a PM system if you can't find a way to make your request work in kayfabe. Literally ask me for a match on Ruin and I'll probably put it in, unless it severely conflicts with like BFW or something. That's been missing for a while - people create textual content but more often than not it lacks any kind of a knock-on effect. Maniac's MELEE counter has been excellent in this regard.

I just feel like the attitude for a while now has been "we'll promo and you handle the bottom line" and yeah bottom line is my job, but in a project that involves creativity, it's not exactly ideal because I don't live inside your head.
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We were just building Maniac and I were proFun. Eddv and Raven the broken down weirdos were antiFun. We had promo'd against each other. I even think Maniac did request that the two of use be put in a couple more tag matches.

It's not all on management though because Maniac and I had real world conflicts that would prevent us from promoting on occasion.

A think it was a few weeks ago where I even said, damn it I missed a card. Not because I wanted to miss the card but because I was actually too busy to see that show was up.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

I just have always perceived you as someone with a very different approach to it than I have, and I don't think I'm wrong about that and I don't mean it as some sort of condescending value judgment. I let stuff happen. You like to steer towards interesting stuff. That's always been a difference between us, and one that we had been able to work through in the past without real issue.

Your approach did better for UCA when you first took over than mine did, but I felt (and still do) that if you're going that far towards the controlling end of the spectrum that maybe you'd be happier in a setting where you wouldn't have as many obstacles between you and your plans. That's all I was trying to say with the TEW bit. You have cool plans, but get frustrated when they are foiled, and there are other creative wrestling-related outlets where that is not nearly as much of an issue as it is here.

Yes we do see things differently and I see the validity of your approach.

But the idea that I hadn't at some point considered TEW or whatever annoys me. There are over 500 UCA matches a year and I felt it necessary to control the outcome of, um, one? I think? That's what my problem here is. You see my need to guide a couple of things as a need to guide everything and wildly inflate that tendency - especially now - to the point you seem to think I'm some kind of control freak where every aspect of it is under my control and there's no creativity from anyone else. Where we don't have someone completely organically coming up with a time travel gimmick or an 80s gimmick or a feud with a Bear oe a Sheik gimmick or a GTM gimmick. Where those characters aren't extensively developed over several months.

And you make the mistake of thinking it's all my script and only that script matters. You think if Maniac came to me with some Mania idea or eddv did or you did, I would reject it in favour of my own? I might create a hypothetical Mania card but whatever idea I have will always be just a suggestion because it's that person's angle. If they go against my thoughts then they're free to pursue an alternative. Just let me know what it is so I can book towards it. Pre-Rumble I only had two possible matches for Mania in my head, one of which was the unavoidable main event and the other of which was my own, and they were on the verge of clashing with each other.

That's the issue. Completely lacking in any complexity - "you're different to me so you must be the exact opposite extreme."
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ooooooooooWOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooWOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO

fun!
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In serious response to XIII, here I go.

The reason I stopped was because of many reasons - first, very few people took me seriously as administrator, so it was difficult to get things going good. Second, membership was dwindling, no one new ever comes to the board to fix that, and everyone else already has seen the UCA and refused to come back or make a serious try at a run. Third, this time of my life is so, so important and I'm doing amazing things, but I need the time to be able to do that. As you said, UCA gets to the point where you sacrifice other parts of your life to efficiently run it. I can not be a successful student like I want to be, produce and write music, and be a good UCA administration all at the same time. I don't know if anyone could. It starts making your life harder because you can't please everyone and you end up spending too much time on something that has no real life benefit for you.

That said, I totally understand your frustration with everything because I went through it too. It is crazy. Why should this be so ridiculously hard? It's meant for fun and some people will make it too serious and personal and then you can't make everything seem worth it. Your issue with certain belts being irrelevant at times and no one doing non title feuds? I. Completely. Understand. When I was admin, I tried to find ways to fix it to make certain things work better. But the solution obviously is not very easy to find. The LW Title was worthless, so I force booked that, and then 10 people had claims to the HW Title, so I tried rebalancing the divisions regularly to fix that, and then people complained about not being in the right division, and then our membership was low so I tried advertising in Discord here and there and people called me annoying and prof occasionally trash talked me to totally kill any effort I put forward of getting higher votals, etc.

You know what I think the solution is at this point? Scale UCA back. When a government set up for 1000 people only rules over 100, it is a broken system. When our UCA was meant for 50 people and we only have 20-30 regular people with only 10-20 of those being active, our UCA is broken. It may mean an overhaul of our titles and divisions, but it'll make it easier on you to run this and it'll open up our user base to pursue better things.

As for everyone else, we just need to come to the common understanding that UCA is for fun. Like, stop taking it so seriously. You guys remember when me and XIII had our big feud? I legit got upset with him over some of the choices he made during that feud but it could not have ended up better. It was such a great feud. Sometimes it helps to just act it out regardless of if the other person takes it a different way than what you thought. Take UCA like this: imagine UCA is WWE, but better and a little smaller. Now you can control one superstar. Have fun with it. In fact, use the #1 rule of improv: wherever the story goes, find a way to keep it going and don't shut down ideas from others. Then we can have healthy feuds and competition while still having a good time.

So yeah, XIII cheats, and that's kind of his go to thing and even I'll admit it gets old after a while, but just go with it! See where it takes you. It's fine to sometimes do your cry of rallying, acting like you framed XIII once again and it's a big new scandal, but maybe he's putting together an amazing story. So why not put together an amazing story with him? It took me a long time to figure that out myself but I think it would help if we all did that more often.

I guess that's all I have to say? Go UCA! It's fun, and that's why I came back. When people are here just putting together good whimsical stories, it ends up being a great time.
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but yeah, main thing is when you have only 10-20 truly active posting members, but you have 4 singles belts and a tag division... it's hard to have people doing non title things and still have all the belts be valued and sought after. So maybe kill one of the divisional belts? Maybe kill divisions as well? They're pretty non existent right now anyways. Just a couple of ideas, not saying that we should do exactly that. I'm just saying, we killed off Eruption for a relatively similar reason.
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Been thinking of dropping IM for a while actually or unifying it with MELEE MAYHEM at least.
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Well, looks like we might agree then!

Personally, I'd be sad to see any belt die because I've basically done something historical with all of them at some point (even tag - quickest to win tag belts - and I will be doing historical things with LW!), but whatever is best for business is best for business. Gotta keep this place fun for everyone somehow!
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I feel like the IM title and the MELEE MAYHEM title are significant in the opposite way in which I assumed they would be, at least for as long as I've been here.

My observations with each title go a little like this:

The LW title being worthless seems like an issue because there are only ever 1-2 people who are consistently competing for it, with everyone who doesn't show up or hasn't been here in a long time lumped into the division just so that the 1 or 2 people who actually care about it have something to do. It's obviously tough with this title because its definitely a "refresher" or "stepping stone" title and you can't really expect established users to want to go back to it, if only because its tough to have a meaningful feud involving it.

The MELEE MAYHEM title seems like the true midcard title, where those not in the main event scene can actually have relevant feuds.

The IM title has seemingly been in a weird spot since I started here. It seems like the title is given to established, veteran users who do show up to vote every card but who don't really promo, and so most of the matches involving it end up being a situation where a veteran, established user who isn't super active is given an opportunity, which only seems to continue the cycle of the title just existing without any actual storyline around it.

The HW division seems extremely crowded, conversely, as it contains every established user who wants to participate and promo, which is understandable, because if you've been here awhile and seek to put the effort in, you should be put in the same situation as others.

After proof-reading this post I've realized that I've said a whole lot of nothing, but I guess what I was trying to say is that overall things seem top heavy, and because of that, the midcard is not only lacking users, but also story and excitement, because anyone willing to get super involved in the promo and entertainment aspect is either at the top of the card, or is a new/returning user and at the bottom of the card.

I didn't mention the tag titles because, for the most part, there always seems to be something interesting involving them.
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I have put a lot of work into keeping the tag teams interesting whenever I am active, so thanks for the compliment david.

Speaking personally, I view the IM title as sort of a trap. If you go on a tear you end up winning the thing but then you're saddled with the title when you could be competing for the main title. This had gotten especially bad in the endless Zero/Sultan/DP merry go round at the top.

MM is different because when pursuing it you sort of take yourself out of the main title pictures to have a different purpose. The actual thing that sort of killed my interest in the fed briefly though was DP nearly achieving his attempt to hold all titles since it ground the entire promotion to a crawl because everyone wanted a piece of DP by necessity and there was only so much DP to go around, so XIII does have a point
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XIII_rocks posted...

That's the issue. Completely lacking in any complexity - "you're different to me so you must be the exact opposite extreme."

I realize it's one match, but blatant rigging and openly yelling at your userbase that they are wrong seems to me like the opposite extreme regardless.

and sorry for trying to help I guess? You're clearly miserable running this so I tried to come up with ways you would be less miserable. If it was a bad idea or one you've already thoroughly pursued, that's one thing, but I don't understand why you are actively upset about it.
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XIII_rocks posted...

And you make the mistake of thinking it's all my script and only that script matters

That is slightly different from what I'm saying, or at least what I'm meaning. I know you're open to working with folks, but you get frustrated at random hiccups like that one. Logical booking is a priority for you.
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I think a feeder system back and forth between the HW and IM titles may solve the problem a little. Take Smackdown for instance. Ambrose was WWE champion for three months. After his feud with Styles, it was clear he wasn't getting it so, BAM! 2-time champion. It's pretty funny how Smackdown has still booked both he and Miz as main eventers on most shows. Instead of thinking of it as a downgrade, Ambrose and Miz have made the most of the situation (unlike Raw, which ran into the Reigns trap of not caring). No one thinks of Ambrose any less. He beat Orton after all. It just means Cena/Styles was the priority for this stretch.

Rebalance the division might work, but what may also be useful is saying, "We have our HW title program first. You're out. I know you want to promo about it on end, but you lost your chance for now. Want the IM or MM title shot instead? Prove it and we'll give you a match for it." That might ease the tension a little bit. After all, Wigs has certainly shown he's not a pushover. It's not like a HW would get the IM title just because. They'd still have to earn it.

I'm just saying a softer stance on "divisions" in some instances may make for interesting matchups and title feuds, rather than solely doing HW/IM/LW all the time to keep them intact.
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MW seems about the ideal spot for me so I can go for that if it's an issue we're having. Give me something to do too because I've never been great at initiating feuds.
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At the very least, this XIII rallying fiasco has opened up the door for some good, engaging discussion about improving the UCA and perhaps easing the load on XIII. It's encouraging me to do better with personal feuds rather than just fluffing myself up. It was Rumble season, so admittedly I've been trying to avoid making enemies that would end up targeting me. I was truly okay with either outcome, but now that I did win, I'm feeling super satisfied and can open myself up to things beyond title chases. Of course, I am still the champ, but I've got an opponent lined up for Epopmania, so for now I have that to build. It's always been a friendly, respectful rivalry between me and Raven, maybe that needs to change.

Oh yeah, so here's a post-Rumble match for you, although maybe you would've gone there anyway: Dp/Wigs vs Raven/Eddv. Boom.
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I like the IM title. I think that it should be booked maube a little bit stronger. Maybe get rid or Melee Mayhem it doesnt really work its kind of a chore.

IM WOULD be more focused on with one less title and i think its more prestigious. I liked when i was in IM beacuse it make it easy for me to get some people involved when i was IM champion some of my best stuff came from that. And like i said before the Maniac as Luchador Black and zero to raven.. i had some good stuff qith Dp in Undisputed but id say people more remember me for my IM Stuff
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I don't know, Sultan. MELEE and Taybles are staples that make UCA different. Heck, Maniac returned to form because of that title. I forget if he made it, but I'm hard pressed to find anyone else who is defined by it. I think those symbolize the chaos that can be cathartic, since anyone can win those at any time. It doesn't have the stigma the current IM title does (maybe due to the randomness). We also come up with new matches all the time. You'll never not have potential for insane match stipulations. Also, take my constant character shifts. You'd be hard pressed to find a title that would "fit" me more than MELEE given my paths as a walking manifestation of dark insanity and shoes, a anime-chick weirdo, Iron Man, myself as a CM Punk wannabe, a DDPBo-Liever, an assassin, and "assumed" serial killer. I mean, I've held tag titles more than anything, but seriously...I've had a weird ass career arc.

Besides, get good at Taybles, and you can make a run out of it. I remember once wanted to go for the title a couple years ago, cause I seemed to get tayblings every other week. I forget what I was doing at the time to ignore it, but the thought was there. I think I remember. Wasn't Zazi like the King of Taybles matches? Both Eds are too.
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Well i mean i see where you are coming from.

But i do agree one less title could do UCA some good i meancmaybe make a completely new middle title. And it be more like a tv title be defended alot and in random as stipulations and stuff idk.

I dont have much say in anything beacuse apparently im not wanted here by 13 "beacuse i will run this place to the ground with my random promos"but just a thought.
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If we do a new title . I say we should start it at EPOPMANIA and it be in an elimination chamber match! Or something else cool like that and id like to enter it!
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Trust me, you don't know how hard it is to want to come back when you get pissed off and leave. I think what we forget is most of us are friends (or at least try to be). This is a fun thing FOR us. Personal issues with XIII aside, I never took his opinion lightly, and he only ever wanted me gone if I needed the break. I'm happy to even be welcomed back at all.

Did XIII ever say that to you personally? If he hasn't, and it's all been in-topic nonsense, then he probably doesn't mean it. You've been around as long (if not a little longer) than me, and are way more important and successful. You should only leave if you feel you need to, not because anyone says you should.
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I think this may go along a lot with what Strife said a couple posts back, and maybe someone others have suggested too. There's obviously not enough going on in the middle and bottom tier for this three-tier system to work. Rather that eliminate a title, maybe elevate the titles a bit so the IM is more on par with the HW title (or at least in the same tier) while the LW covers a broader spectrum (and can still be achieved by newbies).

The IM title doesn't have to take away from the prestige of the HW title, but people in that "HW tier" who are not in the HW title match picture should be encouraged to go for the IM title. It doesn't have to be settling or "below their tier." The HW title match is often pretty organic. There are often tournaments or other special events that determine who is the #1 contender, and established feuds develop for when that isn't the case. The IM title can be kind of more invitational. Is the HW title match tied up and you're looking for something to do? Cut a good promo, start a feud, and challenge for the IM title. Hell, we could even encourage more things like triple threats/fatal four-ways with the IM title match if there are enough people pushing for the title. Rather than restrict the IM title to the "middle tier," it can be more of an open battlefield.
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Maybe get rid or Melee Mayhem it doesnt really work its kind of a chore.

BOO THIS MAN
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BOO LEAVE THE UCA

(don't leave the UCA)
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Yes. That's exactly it. I recall Aubrey Sitterson (The Straight Shoot Podcast guy) always saying, "A title feels important when there are multiple people gunning for it at the same time." It's always going to be true for the HW title. I mean, it is the #1 spot. But saying you want something adds prestige to it. Miz and Ziggler made the IM title mean something, because they had career stipulation matches, high-level quality matches, and whatever, instead of, "Miz v. Apollo Crews..." They made it about being better than the other guy, instead of treating it like a prop. Miz/Cesaro/Zayn/Owens was awesome, because you could buy in to all of them winning and it meaning different things.

In the end, winning that title still means, "you're better than your opponent." There's a level of pride there. What did Jericho say? "I hear all the time that I only come back to put people over. f*** that. If it were up to me, I'd win every match."
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