Board 8 > SeabassDebeste finishes Buffy the Vampire Slayer and its spinoff [spoilers]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previously on SDFBTVSAIS[S]...

'As for Connor x Cordy, I won't talk about it if you don't.'

'Why is Felicia Day an extra?'

'Cordelia was whispering into Angelus's head... I figured it out smugly because I'm not Angelus and referring to him in the third person makes it more palatable for viewers to continue to root for me.'

'Angelus > Spike.'

'Firefly ended very badly, so we gave its failed actors some charitable offerings.'

'assimilate assimilate assimilate'

'SOMEBODY SET US UP THE BOMB!'

*runs the opening credits*

ANGEL - Season 4, Episode 19

Running unintentionally note-free on this one, and operating without consulting the transcript. CAN'T BE STOPPED BABY!!!

Recap: Fred is on the run, but Jasmine has some hivemind shit going down. So Fred is forced out of hiding, where she pulls a gambit: shooting Angel through Jasmine. Jasmine's blood allows Angel to see Jasmine's face. He and Fred use Cordelia's blood - as she was the one who gave birth to Jasmine - to raise Wesley and Gunn's awareness. But Connor is unaffected.

An episode that's almost aggressively unspectacular. Plenty of 'don't think too much about it' moments in the main plot - from why Fred would hide in the sewer of all places (the one place where you're least safe from Angel!) to how she managed to arrange for her, Jasmine, and Angel to be perfectly collinear, to having Angel and Fred drop in on Cordy's window almost inexplicably, since the hotel is swarming with Jasmine worshippers.

But anyway, if we don't think about those too hard, it's not bad. Pieces move quite nicely, and Fred-as-protagonist lasts just about the right length with just the right amount of breathing time for those odd, colorful characters - the lowly demon who accidentally blurts out about who left those 'tasty' hands there, the conspiracy theorist bookstore owner who finds incredible satisfaction and even bliss when Jasmine informs him that Oswald was the only JFK shooter.

Connor being a point of conflict is fairly easy to see, but the show takes such obvious relish in extending the reveal (those agonizing closeups as they cut him and press Cordy's blood on him) that it works awesome all the same.

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* Weird tease of Fred kissing Angel. 'Do you think it fooled them?' she asks Angel, who responds that he was fooled. A nice light moment to go with some of the truly awful love triangles this show has recently produced.
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tag

nobody ever wants to go to the sewer
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Tag
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Why Cordy's blood didn't work on breaking the illusion on Connor makes pretty obvious sense when you think about it.
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Yeah, I mean, Connor literally is the father of Jasmine. He basically already 'has' Jasmine's blood and it doesn't work for him. But I still appreciated the agony they made us go through to get there, haha.

(edit)

Consulting my notes, the one great moment that I missed from last episode: Connor and Angel singing together. LOL.

(edit 2)

It also seems that Jasmine can be hurt while she's in hivemaster mode. Seems like a pretty important weakness.
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So yeah, I think we're far enough into Jasmine stuff to clarify something.

I'm pretty sure the reason they do the episodes in the order they do up to this point because Sunnydale being effectively cut off from the rest of the world is the only reasonable way to keep them from getting sucked into this plotline.

Jasmine OP, pls nerf.
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Well hello there new topic.
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kevwaffles posted...

So yeah, I think we're far enough into Jasmine stuff to clarify something.

I'm pretty sure the reason they do the episodes in the order they do up to this point because Sunnydale being effectively cut off from the rest of the world is the only reasonable way to keep them from getting sucked into this plotline.

Jasmine OP, pls nerf.

Ah, yeah, makes sense. I did think it was funny earlier when no one in Sunnydale heard that like two hours away, the biggest city in Southern California was having a case of fire and brimstone and no sun for months on end.
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Oh I should catch up on the last topic before it purges...
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SeabassDebeste posted...

kevwaffles posted...

So yeah, I think we're far enough into Jasmine stuff to clarify something.

I'm pretty sure the reason they do the episodes in the order they do up to this point because Sunnydale being effectively cut off from the rest of the world is the only reasonable way to keep them from getting sucked into this plotline.

Jasmine OP, pls nerf.

Ah, yeah, makes sense. I did think it was funny earlier when no one in Sunnydale heard that like two hours away, the biggest city in Southern California was having a case of fire and brimstone and no sun for months on end.

That part of it is more LA getting cut off from the world mixed with absurd levels of denial, I guess? Yeah, it's pretty weird that doesn't come up, but once Jasmine shows up no one's denying anything anymore.
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Jasmine's not taking over the whole world yet at least
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh I should catch up on the last topic before it purges...

this morning i woke up and was freaking out when i saw i'd lost 480 posts of avatar

turns out i did indeed archive it

and now i've archived the previous buffy topic too!
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ANGEL - Season 4, Episode 20

Recap: Angel Inc takes to the sewers, where they run into some uninfected humans who hunt monsters but are currently being beleaguered by a clackity demon. It captures Wesley and, before Angel kills it, reveals that Jasmine's true name - held by priests in a different dimension - is her weakness. As Connor closes in, Angel alone goes into that world.

End of an even season - time for a different dimension!

Plot-wise, it's a sensibly timed episode - the heroes' lowest point, as they're forced into hiding underground, waiting to be captured like animals. Emotionally, it's also an important time. Angel desperately tries to bury sentiment; as his team around him voices concerns about Cordelia, he tells them that they have to forget about her - and that feelings are a liability. Gunn and Fred struggle with this, and ultimately decide to go after rescuing the thirteen-year-old kid who might have become a liability. And indeed, they wind up leading Connor right to them.

But are they wrong? Times of desperation breed desperate measures. What's the point of being the hero if you can't try to save a kid? It's through this understanding that Gunn and Fred finally truly reconcile. (This is actually a compelling subplot for Gunn and Fred; it's the love triangle cancer with Wesley that was the issue.) And it's not like they just senselessly become softies who lose their reasoning: Fred is still hardened enough to remind Angel not to worry about his friends and to hop into that portal.

Despite that Angel is now the #1 action star again (and that Wesley is the one who figures out Jasmine's weakness), I think Fred is pretty damn heroic here. In the previous episode, Angel told Fred that there was nothing about her that suggested she wasn't a champion- and it's telling that with all the crew in the car together, Fred is the one driving.

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* I've heard Angel Season 5 is good, and everyone hates Connor. This episode, he bought into what Jasmine was selling. Is there a chance that he is the 'Sacrifice' at the end of the season?

* Relatedly, these are some hilariously uninspired episode titles - 4x20 is 'Sacrifice,' while 4x22 is titled 'Home.'

* Gotta stop losing my notes...
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SeabassDebeste posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh I should catch up on the last topic before it purges...

this morning i woke up and was freaking out when i saw i'd lost 480 posts of avatar

turns out i did indeed archive it

and now i've archived the previous buffy topic too!

good
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give me your pain
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connor just killed jasmine before the season finale.

THE HYPE IS REAL LET'S DO THIS.
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Angel S5 so good.

Buffy finale so good.

Hype so hype.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

connor just killed jasmine before the season finale.

THE HYPE IS REAL LET'S DO THIS.

Season 4 finales are never what you expect in the Whedonverse!
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ANGEL - Season 4, Episodes 21-22

Recap: Jasmine decides not to kill Angel's friends. (Okay.) Angel retrieves Jasmine's name and uses it to take away her spells. An irate Jasmine tries to kill Angel in revenge, but she's killed by Connor - who feels pure emptiness. Reanimated Lilah appears, congratulating Angel on the behalf of Wolfram and Hart on his prevention of World Peace - and offering him management of the rebuilt Los Angeles branch. Angel accepts her offer in a bid to prevent Connor from going full Columbine on a sporting goods store... and finally wiping his existence from everyone's mind and letting him grow up to become Pete Campbell.

Jasmine joins Adam and Warren in that wonderful tradition of the ignominious penultimate episode exit. It's a shame for anyone who enjoys unspeaking men with rippling bare naked torsos, as that concludes her diet of those background hunks of man-meat. Stripping her of her glamor also brings Gina Torres into full Gina Torres mode from 24 and The Shield, a wronged, insane, vindictive woman lashing out haplessly.

Once again, it's brilliant the way that the show builds up to it - more and more of what are ostensibly Jasmine scenes focus more on the reaction of Connor, the emptiness in his eyes. Why is it that he's able to resist Jasmine's spell without becoming 'de-glamored'? Because he was never fooled by her glamor at all, and just went along with it. It's a surprisingly strong reveal for an otherwise almost irredeemably shitty character. With Cordelia becoming an obvious non-factor for the finale, the length of time during which we dwell on Connor's talk of illusions indicates pretty clearly that he's no longer on board with Jasmine. And since Jasmine explains that her parents tether her to this world... by the time Angel obliterates her power and Connor finishes Jasmine off, her premature demise is almost a foregone conclusion.

Which still doesn't make it any less awesome in practice. We shift gears entirely for 4x22, and while it's nowhere near as delightfully weird as the corresponding Buffy episode, it's enjoyably discordant on its own. The efficiency with which Wolfram and Hart's office has been rebuilt is hilariously unrealistic, and the idea that they'd hand over an office to Angel is preposterous. The characters all realize this, with the claim that they're being rewarded logical (they did), but insufficient (because any business focuses on future results, not past... and Angel Inc is obviously more interested in doing good for the future).

But you know what? Screw it. The best surreal moment of the Wolfram pitch: two dozen people in suits crossing paths, each of whom greets Angel by name with a creepy corporate smile. The biggest minor letdown moment: Angel having no intent of getting involved with Slayerdale. The best surprisingly emotional moment: Wesley breaking into the archives not for a prophecy... but to attempt to burn Lilah's contract. ('You've suffered enough.' / 'Flames wouldn't be eternal if they consumed anything... but it means something that you tried.') The most wild-speculation-inducing moment: WHAT THE FUCK DID THAT PANTHER MEAN FOR GUNN?
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Honestly, Angel vs Connor at the climax is really good - Season 4 is (I was gonna say 'for better or for worse,' but let's be real - it's for worse) Connor's coming of age season. His stint in Season 3 is as a bitchy, hateful, punchable child. In Season 4 he gets shot down and hated and punched in the face a lot (especially by Dad). He loses his virginity and falls in love. He tries his hardest to belong. And he never does. It's never going to work out for him. It's impossible to heal the psychic wounds left by a childhood in Quortoth under the guidance of a man who plotted to pit Connor against his biological father. The Connor that enters 4x22 is a bitchy, hateful, punchable man.

And the thing is, I kind of admire the showrunners - not for creating, but for sticking with such a disgusting character. Despite that he should never have been in the show, this is the only way that it could ever have 'worked' for Connor from a storytelling perspective. And that final scene in his new home, with as punchable a face as always... it's a phenomenal bookend to a season that began with Angel's deluded fantasy of a dinner with his makeshift family.

In conclusion: Fuck Connor.

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* Angel's sojourn in the insect-ish world is truly uninspired, but visually at least it's unusual.

* Angel's meeting with Jasmine in the streets, as equals, actually works pretty damn well.

* I'd forgotten all about the hype of 'guest starring Stephanie Romanov' until the end of 4x21. Nice!

* CHEKOV'S BATMAN SLEEVE-GRAPPLNG-HOOK YA GO MY WYNDAM-PRYCE.

* 'There is no Council.'

* Just realized I have half a dozen moments related to Lilah, so...

* 'It's a lie.' / '- Lah. It's a Li-lah.'

* 'It's alright, lover. I never felt a thing.' / 'I'm sure that's true.'

* 'Because this is... the offer of a lifetime.' (dramatic swell of the music, camera zooms up on Lilah's face... a beat...) '... Just not, you know, mine.'

* That long, awkward silence after the credits when everyone stares at Lilah - so good. Made all the more anxious by the camera's insistence on cutting between them all, seeing who's gonna crack first.

* Gunn: 'You wanna give us your evil law firm? We're not lawyers!' / Fred: 'Or evil.'

* Love the silly scene with everyone slowly gathering at the limo - topped by Lorne already being in it.

* 'Just because we've tried to kill or corrupt every one of you at some point or the other... doesn't mean we can't be trusted.'

* 'Watch the head - comes off easy.'

* 'Goodbye Mr. Sunshine, Helloooo Gloomy Avenger!'

Glad we got to appreciate Stephanie Romanov a little in death after her unceremonious demise.
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The reveal that Connor was never fooled is the best moment he gets, I have to agree.

Dead Lilah is best Lilah!

SeabassDebeste posted...

Jasmine decides not to kill Angel's friends. (Okay.)

Presumably they could have come in handy as hostages if things hadn't transpired as quickly as they did. She probably didn't expect Angel to hop back into this dimension right in the hotel right at that moment.

Actually, wait, did they even explain how he ended up so close when he came back? Because that was certainly damn convenient. More lol S4, I guess.
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Aww yeah Angel S5 it's so good it's soooo good.


And Buffy S7 end is pretty cool too!
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Lilah got pretty repetitive over all with her constant ineffective scheming and Angel always intimitating and threatening her, but fundamentally she was pretty solid, and that appearance utilizes her in all her best ways. Good use of the character.




Good riddance A4, now get hype for A5!


Though first we get to finish Buffy finally!
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kevwaffles posted...

Presumably they could have come in handy as hostages if things hadn't transpired as quickly as they did. She probably didn't expect Angel to hop back into this dimension right in the hotel right at that moment.

Actually, wait, did they even explain how he ended up so close when he came back? Because that was certainly damn convenient. More lol S4, I guess.

The whole Angel-going-into-the-other-dimension thing was pretty silly, so I'm hardly going to nitpick that detail. Made it way more dramatic, and it didn't waste our time with any other possible distractions! And yeah I guess Jasmine forgot she had the hostages, because she doesn't kill them after Angel decided to go no-negotiation on her.

The reveal that Connor was never fooled is the best moment he gets, I have to agree.

Yup, and the thing is, you can tell that they built toward this pretty much all season. It's frustrating that it's a good moment, because acknowledging its decency seems to justify Connor's S4 arc. It doesn't.

RyoCaliente posted...

Aww yeah Angel S5 it's so good it's soooo good.


And Buffy S7 end is pretty cool too!

now here's some hype i can get behind

ClyTheCool posted...

Lilah got pretty repetitive over all with her constant ineffective scheming and Angel always intimitating and threatening her, but fundamentally she was pretty solid, and that appearance utilizes her in all her best ways. Good use of the character.

Lilah was subordinate to Lindsey and never seemed to become a credible threat after Lindsey left. (Either that or she would be WAY too powerful not to have contained Angel 100%. It was a silly situation.) The show tried to build her up a bit, but it didn't work that well, since building Lilah up only meant tearing down no-namers like Woodson (or whatever her superior was) and Gavin (ugh).
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Oh, I don't think I mentioned it outside of spoiler tags, but the Lorne narration at the end of Spin the Bottle (4x6) actually spells out that the moment Cordelia gets her memories back is the moment the Beast actually wakes up. (Not when he rises from the ground, just that his eyes open up the same time hers do.) Naturally you're likely attribute it to visions since it's Cordy, but it's really and actually pretty blatantly telling us that she's the villain.

SeabassDebeste posted...

And yeah I guess Jasmine forgot she had the hostages, because she doesn't kill them after Angel decided to go no-negotiation on her.

She did sort of have a lot going on at that point. She was still desperately trying to cling to what she had before devolving into petty vengeance.

SeabassDebeste posted...

Yup, and the thing is, you can tell that they built toward this pretty much all season. It's frustrating that it's a good moment, because acknowledging its decency seems to justify Connor's S4 arc. It doesn't.

I don't know, it actually kind of feels like a natural conclusion to the way they approached the character and how he'd handle being in that situation when it occurred to them that both parents should probably be immune. But the moment Jasmine is born, he drops to his knees at the same time Angel does before Angel even says "You're beautiful!" That's pretty quick on the uptake given that he was trying to kill him just before that to protect her!

Oh, and just because it's decent doesn't make me feel like it justifies Connor's existence. However, I will admit that I actually like pretty much all of his scenes after this point better than anything he was involved with up to that point, so at worst they made the best of a bad situation finally.
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No, Connor handling Jasmine was correct... the problem is that it involved subjecting us to a season of an almost unwatchable character. Just because it ties together nicely doesn't mean it's a story that was worth telling, IMO. But that said, it's the story we got.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

No, Connor handling Jasmine was correct... the problem is that it involved subjecting us to a season of an almost unwatchable character. Just because it ties together nicely doesn't mean it's a story that was worth telling, IMO. But that said, it's the story we got.

I'm just saying I think it would have made more sense for Connor to stand there confused for a bit, instead of just instantly doing exactly what Angel does. Meh.
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kevwaffles posted...

Oh, and just because it's decent doesn't make me feel like it justifies Connor's existence. However, I will admit that I actually like pretty much all of his scenes after this point better than anything he was involved with up to that point, so at worst they made the best of a bad situation finally.

Just saw your edit, and yeah, agreed there. It looks to me like your previous paragraph was justifying his existence!

kevwaffles posted...

I'm just saying I think it would have made more sense for Connor to stand there confused for a bit, instead of just instantly doing exactly what Angel does. Meh.

Makes sense.

Let's try not to think too hard about Angel S4's logistics.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Just saw your edit, and yeah, agreed there. It looks to me like your previous paragraph was justifying his existence!

Whoops, I can see the confusion there. Probably should have just quoted your first sentence.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Let's try not to think too hard about Angel S4's logistics.

Honestly, it's probably why I hated it even more the second time I watched it. And that's despite knowing the justification for all of Cordy's early bullshit behavior.

Angel S4 is like the anti-Breaking Bad in that respect! (Except for Spin the Bottle.)
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So you've been lamenting how bad Cordy has been all season...I don't know if it helps much, but Cordy has actually not been in the season. Its just been Jasmine controlling her the whole time! Remember Cordelia Chase fondly as you knew her before this shitty season!
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At last, the worst is behind. Well, there's some stuff my wife really hates still to come, but I think it works (or would have, barring other circumstances).
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ClyTheCool posted...

So you've been lamenting how bad Cordy has been all season...I don't know if it helps much, but Cordy has actually not been in the season. Its just been Jasmine controlling her the whole time! Remember Cordelia Chase fondly as you knew her before this shitty season!

That's a really desperate silver lining, but yeah, I'll take it for the show going forward.

It actually makes Cordelia in Season 4 even worse, though. The writers didn't even try to give us real Cordy. What exactly makes them think that it's acceptable to turn your show's #2-billed character into garbage for an entire season?!

(LOST SPOILERS) I have a lot of issues with S5 of LOST, but one thing I thought was executed really well - the MIB/Locke switch. It's crushing to know that Locke is gone for real, but Terry O'Quinn plays a fantastic Smokey, who's a really fun character in his own right.

kevwaffles posted...

Whoops, I can see the confusion there. Probably should have just quoted your first sentence.

i think you might at this point be the person with the most misunderstood posts in this series!

JonThePenguin posted...

At last, the worst is behind. Well, there's some stuff my wife really hates still to come, but I think it works (or would have, barring other circumstances).

hype...?
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SeabassDebeste posted...

i think you might at this point be the person with the most misunderstood posts in this series!

Sounds about right!

ClyTheCool posted...

So you've been lamenting how bad Cordy has been all season...I don't know if it helps much, but Cordy has actually not been in the season. Its just been Jasmine controlling her the whole time! Remember Cordelia Chase fondly as you knew her before this shitty season!

Technically not quite correct. Before the end of Spin The Bottle, it is legitimately Cordy. Just a Cordy that doesn't remember anything about herself or the people around her, but imo her personality is at least somewhat more consistent with what we'd expect from Cordy than what follows.

It's never really specified for certain, but the amnesia was thought to be a way to keep Jasmine from waking up, probably by the PtBs. Had they never done the spell to get rid of that, in theory she probably could have lived out her whole life without Jasmine ever manifesting.
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Probably gonna watch the finale tonight, too - but I want to stop and recap this moment. The finale writeup will be tomorrow.

Season 7, Episode 21

Recap: The named Potentials (including sadly, Kennedy) survive the blast, but Faith is now bedridden. Buffy escapes Caleb with her new WMD. Everyone prepares for the end - an emotional Buffy-Spike conversation, Willow chatting with Giles about magic, a game of wheelchair-fighting at the hospital for Andrew and Tanya, Xander driving Dawn out to the middle of nowhere, Angel showing up to distract Caleb and allow Buffy to kill him. He's rewarded with a kiss - something Spike takes note of.

This episode has numerous obvious weak spots, beginning with the fact that Amanda and Kennedy survive the episode, and that Buffy immediately returns to her former position. But Willow and Giles's search is truly boilerplate material, Xander and Buffy's conversation feels like it's happened a million times before, and Buffy and Spike's recapitulation of the previous night is almost unwatchable.

But you know what? There's plenty of fun, too. Despite the overwhelmingly grim mood, a fair amount of banter still shines through. Caleb is wary upon seeing that Buffy has discovered the Scythe, but at least it's not all over yet - 'I guess now the question is can you pry it from solid rock before -' (Buffy pulls it out0 '-darn...' Andrew's raids of grocery stores make him seem dorky, but his efforts do not go unappreciated, especially by Giles, who's quite excited about the Jaffa cakes. He and Anya then proceed to drink the antiseptic fairly nonchalantly and rob a hospital - 'Sutures, if you wanna get stitchy with it.' Spike drops a reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, calling the Scythe a 'Holy Hand Grenade.' Buffy tells Spike, 'I am tired of mixed signals and weird defensiveness and I have Faith for that!' And Angel brings his lighter disposition from his own show.

Dramatically, well... I guess I should've seen this coming, right? I heaped praise upon previous seasons for killing off their Big Bad-esque figures in the penultimate episodes. Caleb's a scary opponent, but he hasn't screamed 'endgame villain.' Here, Buffy doesn't even think about Spike and the best night of his existence, dead or alive, ensouled or soulless. Because Angel is a quantity she knows, and because he's there. The instant Buffy kisses Angel, I know that Spike is going to see it.

So why is it a shock to me that he's being presented like he's going to be the catspaw of the Big Bad of the next episode? We've been told over and over that Spike is going to play into the endgame here. The First still has plans for Spike; Buffy's worked far too hard to keep him alive to give him a non-critical role in the finale. He's just exposed himself to his lowest point ever since he put himself back together. And now, all the pieces have fallen into place for something truly memorable.

HYPE.

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* Buffy slaying three Ubervamps with no trouble is a great way to show off the efficacy of the Scythe.

* The Guardian woman who shows up right before the final Caleb fight makes me glad for my TVTropes vocabulary. If that isn't a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment then I don't know what is. Like... what?

* Despite the bomb's ineffectiveness, I am very happy to see Faith alive... for now. The next (and final) episode is called 'Chosen.' I'm worried.

* 'I'll get Kennedy to watch the girls. She's tough! Imminent death won't bother her!'

* I don't know how I got tricked into thinking Angel wouldn't show up to help out! DAMN YOU ANGEL. 'God I miss watching this.'
(edit)
* Truest statement ever: 'The good guys are not traditionally known for their communications skills.'
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SeabassDebeste posted...

* I don't know how I got tricked into thinking Angel wouldn't show up to help out! DAMN YOU ANGEL. 'God I miss watching this.'

So much this. Like, in what world does Angel not show up for the end of Buffy as a show? Pshaw.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Andrew's raids of grocery stores make him seem dorky, but his efforts do not go unappreciated, especially by Giles, who's quite excited about the Jaffa cakes.

This was one that I'm looking forward to next time I rewatch. It went over my head before but since then my wife and I honeymooned in Ireland and were introduced to Jaffa cakes while there. (By a B8 person, no less!) I now fully understand Giles's excitement. =P
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Season 7, Episode 22

Recap: Buffy sends Angel away, having chosen Spike for now, in a way. After being visited by the First, Buffy hatches a plan - to use Willow to activate every Slayer out there. The Potentials descend directly into the Hellmouth, with the regulars manning the exits, and start killing Turok-Hans with their newfound power. Spike uses a trinket from Angel to channel sunlight through his body onto every Ubervamp, obliterating them and the Hellmouth itself. Sunnydale becomes Sunny Valley.

Wasn't it funny when I said that the end of 7x21 was subverting expectations? 7x22 doubles down on everything conventional about the season - Angel going away, Spike being the key to ending the First's machinations, reduction of Ubervamps to basically normal vamps, big battle.

In many ways, Buffy the Vampire Slayer's grand finale is an affirmation of what it thinks the series should be about, and what it thinks were its strongest aspects. It's a reminder that the season itself has been shamelessly nostalgic and at the same time acutely aware that you can never go back. And very clearly, the season finale that is most strongly evoked by the series finale is that of Season 3 - you now have a sisterhood army instead of a high school, and Anya and Spike have replaced Cordelia as 'girl and vampire never to be seen again.' But having a MASTER PLAN, the communal empowerment, the all-out assault, the massive collateral damage, and the giant cast of characters - it's straight out of Graduation's playbook.

While there are messy parts to it, the formulation and payoff at highest stakes are incredibly elegant. Slayer Lore and Willow Magic unite magnificently. The reason we've been dragging this 'army' around becomes clear. (I'm reminded of the end of the Mistborn trilogy, where the atium-burning Allomancers get their moment.) And what makes Buffy's solution so series-unitingly satisfying is that it addresses the core struggle of the character throughout her tenure as the Slayer: the sense of isolation despite being surrounded by loved ones. We'll never know how Buffy handles no longer being the sole 'Chosen,' but she'll get a fair chance.

There's no point here in complaining about the stupidity of the tactics (setting two flimsy humsn to guard each exit? I'm shocked Robin and Anya were the only ones to take wounds). And yeah, some of the relationship writing is still weak (Robin x Faith is terrible, and Kennedy x Willow hasn't really improved beyond getting hotter). But the series is what it is, and it has been for coming on twenty years now.

I'm disappointed that Spike didn't become the primary bad guy this episode. However, we got a great spoonful of awesome shade thrown between Angel and Spike. 'He wears lifts, you know,' Spike informs Buffy - who suggests that perhaps the two of them wrassle... with oil. Meanwhile, Angel is upset about Spike having a soul. 'Well... That's great. Everyone's got a soul now... You know, I started it. Having a soul? Before it was all the cool new thing!' Insecure Angel is the best, though Buffy doesn't love it: 'Are you just gonna go all Dawson on me every time you come here and I have a new boyfriend? What was the highlight of our relationship? When you broke up with me or when I killed you?' Oh, and Spike doesn't really think this sentence through: 'Most people don't use their tongues to say hello... well I guess they do, but...'
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* Two more from 7x21:

---- 'I guess it's true. Scythe matters.' (Sold best by the grin that Willow gives to Buffy over Giles's disgust.)

---- Xander tells Buffy 'I didn't say you were gonna die! I implied you were gonna die.'

* Buffy killing Caleb a second time is pretty amazing - interrupting him when he seems like he's about to claim she has no balls... with an axe to the groin. 'He had to split.'

* 'I have my pride, you know!' / 'I understand.' / 'Clearly you don't because the whole having my pride pride thing was just a smokescreen!'


* I like the shot to end the 'night before' - Buffy comes down the stairs into the basement, and she and Spike stand on opposite sides of the room. Just a very pretty framing.

* Andrew tries to do a big thank you speech... starting with his brother, the guy who was actually in S3's Prom episode.

* White-haired Willow definitely seems like she's enjoying all the tingly sensations of having magic go through her.

* Got pretty excited about Amanda dying. Bad editing made it look like Rona did, too. Alas.

* Faith survives healthily, though! Yay!

* 'You know Buffy. Sweet girl, not that bright.'

* Nice little scene with the original trio plus Giles talking about what to do the next day - with a tracking shot that sees Giles split, then Willow, and then Xander, until it's just Buffy walking into the Hellmouth. Again, a finale to a series this epic necessarily echoes its origins.

* What an incredible series. Full thoughts have to wait for a bit - not sure if they need to come after finishing Angel, though.
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From what I remember (someone else can correct me if I'm wrong) try to skip the opening credits of 5x01 if you can. It spoils something.

You're good to watch it after, or in 5x02.
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fufufufufu
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Terastodon posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

* I don't know how I got tricked into thinking Angel wouldn't show up to help out! DAMN YOU ANGEL. 'God I miss watching this.'

So much this. Like, in what world does Angel not show up for the end of Buffy as a show? Pshaw.

The one without shrimp?
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SeabassDebeste posted...

* Nice little scene with the original trio plus Giles talking about what to do the next day - with a tracking shot that sees Giles split, then Willow, and then Xander, until it's just Buffy walking into the Hellmouth. Again, a finale to a series this epic necessarily echoes its origins.

This was epic. Love when the end can boil down it's cast to the first principles again, if just for a shot.

It's too bad there couldn't have been more seasons. Status Quo being destroyed needs to happen more often. Of course the ending wouldn't have happened the way it did if they didn't think it was the end, so it's a catch-22.
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Anya ;_;
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I thought that was unnecessarily grim or harsh
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That was a full out war on the Hellmouth. People were always going to die, Anya had a great character arc and her dying for other people was a great way for it to end.
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I mean just the way it happened or how it was depicted. Really cold
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SeabassDebeste posted...

We'll never know how Buffy handles no longer being the sole 'Chosen,' but she'll get a fair chance.

Well, there are comics. (But you don't need to worry about those.)
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Are the comics no good?
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