Board 8 > ~~~Game Of Thrones Discussion Topic~~~ Sundays at 9 (Spoilers as occur on TV)

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Achromatic
04/09/12 2:52:00 AM
#151:


I loved the episode, and that dwarf is so going to win best leading actor.

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 3:42:00 AM
#152:


Also, the way they portray Stannis is just... ugh. He's supposed to be the most honorable man in Westeros, but here we have him dropping his pants after like 8 minutes of screen time. Yes, he does have sex with Melisandre in the books, but that's never described and only hinted at, and you could easily miss the implication.

In the books he's honorable because his sex with Melisandre isn't shown, but in the show he's not because it is shown! Uh what?

And like with Renly/Loras, they had to show it because so many people missed it in the book even though GRRM thought it was obvious.

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Solfadore
04/09/12 3:45:00 AM
#153:


Just saw the episode. All in all on par with the first one, perhaps just a *tad* worse, but still pretty good. I'll put that on the book starting a bit slow and some scenes being hard to adapt (the Tyrion scenes, especially, are heavily dependent on his thought process, which we can't access in the adaptation).

The good:
+ Arya scenes were excellent. The chemistry between Arya and Gendry was just perfect and the banter was cleverly written. Minor detail: Hot Pie was really good with the "because he's got armour on" lines. I have no idea where they get their child actors, but they never cease to amaze me!
+ Theon scenes were quite alright as well. I was a bit afraid that they'd muck things up, but they did it pretty well. Yara's not my cup of tea, but that's fine. Balon was really well done, though, and Alfie Allen's doing a very good job all around (nothing incredible, but a very good job - these scenes on Pyke weren't very easy to nail). Pyke looks magnificent (DAT CASTLE).
+ Tyrion/Cersei scene at the end was good.
+ Tyrion/Varys was nice, but I'm sure some of it might have been lost on non-book readers. Or maybe not. Conleth Hill's doing great, though. Very obsequious, yet still threatening.
+ I like Davos and Stannis.

The bad:
- They should've cut Dany's scene. Didn't really serve anything. As I said in my last review, I think they should cut down on the minor plotlines and try to have more focus. That said, it's still better than last episode (no Bran, no Robb - I like Robb, but trying to keep the focus on Tyrion/Theon/Arya was a smart decision).
- Littlefinger scene was awkward. This might seem like a rant to people who didn't read the book, but they're just not getting LF's character right. He's not a pimp who bullies his girls and threatens to do unspeakable things should they not conform to his expectations. He's a charmer - he would still have threatened her, of course, but much more subtly, and much more gleefully. It would have sounded like a joke or a quip. Not an actual 'in-your-face' threat. That scene was more the writer's fault than Gillen's though, who really didn't do anything wrong here. And they seriously need to cut down on "Screentime stealer" Ros.
- Tyrion's early scene with Slynt seemed a bit crude. "Yo, I don't like you, let me send you to the Wall and just appoint my main bodyguard in your stead. Kthxbye." I think they needed a bit more time here (aka the Dany scene) to really convey the subtlety of the whole thing. Have him working Slynt over a bit more subtly. This was too quick.
- Didn't like the whole Stannis/Melisandre scene. I think it would've been better to simply imply it. Like cut it as soon as she says "You'll have to give all of it" (and before she strips"). Yes, I'm sure they did have sex in the book, but you don't need to show everything that was implied. Loras/Renly was good, this was unnecessary.

Not much to say on Jon/Sam. Not the best scenes, but they didn't have much to work with, and they did a plenty good job with what they had.

What they need to do:
- More of the same with Theon and Arya. Also Joffrey and Robb, but we didn't see them this episode, so heh.
- If it's a political ploy with Tyrion in King's Landing, spend more time to really convey the subtleties. The "game of thrones" is a complex game. It has to be portrayed as such, I feel. They're doing really well with the serious and the funny scenes, though.
- Cut the useless minor scenes and spend more time on the important ones.
- Have Littlefinger speak with Tyrion or Varys. That should get his character back on track a bit. He's really not at his best right now. Stop the weasel. Embrace the mockingbird!

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 3:49:00 AM
#154:


Littlefinger is a top 4 book character for me but I accept that he's portrayed differently in the show. For some reason I'm more accepting of him than Cersei.

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Achromatic
04/09/12 3:51:00 AM
#155:


I haven't read the books but I thought I understood Tyrion's thought process fairly well in his scenes. His face said it all.

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Solfadore
04/09/12 3:54:00 AM
#156:


It's the other way around for me. I like that Cersei is portrayed differently (I liked her character in the books too, but even though she's different, I liked what they did with her in the show). Still on the fence with Shae and Yara, guess I'll see where they take it from there, but nothing too bad.

Littlefinger, though, is very disappointing. It's like they cut out big chunks of what made his character original and endearing, and simply had him act as a clichéd, snivelling advisor.

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Solfadore
04/09/12 4:01:00 AM
#157:


From: Achromatic | #155
I haven't read the books but I thought I understood Tyrion's thought process fairly well in his scenes. His face said it all.


It's more that they have to be a bit more blunt than in the books. In the source material, you could have some very, very, very covert threats being brought forward and Tyrion would be like "Oh, what they're actually saying here is XYZ." If the other character just says XYZ right off the bat, they come off as a bit less dangerous and devilishly smart than they really are. For instance, the scene with Slynt in the books is very carefully laid out: starts out all fun and games, and then slowly, very slowly, painfully, nastily, you realize that something is going amiss... and then the tables are turned and awesomeness ensues.

Given the time constraints and the fact that we can't get into other characters' heads, they have to convey things more quickly and more bluntly. It's a really, really hard thing to do, and I have to hand it to them for doing an amazing job given the sheer difficulty of adapting this series in ten hours format. At times, though, such as the political scenes, I feel like we lose quite a lot of the undercurrents.

Maybe that's just me, though.

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Achromatic
04/09/12 4:17:00 AM
#158:


Again, I haven't read the books but as a person who watches a great many excellent TV shows I found about the same message was conveyed. Started out good and then went for the throat. Scenes can only last so long as you say, I find nothing wrong with the execution, it is just the difference in the mediums I think.

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kevwaffles
04/09/12 5:36:00 AM
#159:


tag

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xp1337
04/09/12 5:38:00 AM
#160:


My problem with the Stannis scene wasn't that it was shown, not implied (that it does happen was fairly obvious to me), but that I feel Stannis changed his mind way too quickly and easily here. On one hand, I realize they have to work with time constraints and such. On the other, it really felt like Melisandre talked him into going against his "honor" in about two minutes which felt a bit... jarring, to me.

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Achromatic
04/09/12 5:59:00 AM
#161:


He wanted an heir so that if a boar kicked his ass there wouldn't be another war for his throne tbh.

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saveus_Maria
04/09/12 6:18:00 AM
#162:


as if the one true king of westeros could get his ass kicked by a boar

besides, the lord of light does not fear boars

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SemiFinal vs Belarus
04/09/12 9:02:00 AM
#163:


the night is dark and full of boars

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Achromatic
04/09/12 9:05:00 AM
#164:


I don't know boar kicked the last one true king in the ass.

In fact by right of succession that boar was king for a brief while. Robert was dead, he just didn't know it.

Did whoever killed the Boar die too if so we need to have a boar succession line.

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 9:08:00 AM
#165:


The night is dark and full of Tarly.

~5 years ago there was an awesome thread on Westeros full of Ranyll Tarly facts. Wish it still existed. The only thread I can find now is a bunch of generic Chuck Norris/Vin Diesel facts with Tarly's name inserted.

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 9:08:00 AM
#166:


Did whoever killed the Boar die too if so we need to have a boar succession line.

Robert killed the boar unforunately.

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Achromatic
04/09/12 9:09:00 AM
#167:


From: Theon_Greyjoy | #166
Did whoever killed the Boar die too if so we need to have a boar succession line.

Robert killed the boar unforunately.


Damnit I was hoping I remembered that wrong.

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Solfadore
04/09/12 9:10:00 AM
#168:


The boar paid the iron price for its crown.

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saveus_Maria
04/09/12 9:24:00 AM
#169:


what is dead may never die, though

the boar will clearly come back as the rightful claimant to the throne

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 10:23:00 AM
#170:


Where did Tysha go?

Wherever boars go

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CoolCly
04/09/12 1:57:00 PM
#171:


I thought Littlefinger was portrayed perfectly last season, exactly as he should be and the actor is spot on.


This year though his scenes have been a bit off. The Cersei scene and the scene with the whore crying didn't really feel right.

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TheConductorSix
04/09/12 3:41:00 PM
#172:


Theon Greyjoy is a BAWWWWWWS.

Thoughts and stuff coming soon.

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AlecTrevelyan006
04/09/12 6:11:00 PM
#173:


Theon Greyjoy has daddy issues like whoa.

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Theon_Greyjoy
04/09/12 6:19:00 PM
#174:


All the best cowboys do.

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TheConductorSix
04/09/12 7:13:00 PM
#175:


then he tried to bone his sister and ruined it all :(

his sister letting him do it was even more :((((((((((((((((((((((((

I'm still gathering thoughts.

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Solfadore
04/10/12 12:48:00 AM
#176:


Theon is such a good character. Not necessarily likeable, but a damn good character.

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TheConductorSix
04/10/12 1:41:00 AM
#177:


"Ruling is lying on a bed of weeds and pulling them out by the root one by one before they strangle you in your sleep"

Jesus. Christ. She's going to get the quote every week. Everytime her facade breaks and you get to understanding WHY she's such a cold-hearted, spiteful, unwavering creature and you start to pity instead of hate. She, like Joffrey, was forced into this life. Her father loved ruling indirectly so he sent her to marry Robert. Jaime never wanted the crown and preferred to life the easy life. Tyrion was...Tyrion. Cersei had to be this.

I'll post the rest of my thoughts tomorrow but once again Cersei had the best scene.

Also: NO JOFFREY AND ONE DANY SCENE WHAT THE HELL

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kevwaffles
04/10/12 5:55:00 AM
#178:


Cersei was no more forced into her life than any other highborn lady in Westeros. And it's not like she doesn't enjoy or crave power.

From: TheConductorSix | #177
Jaime never wanted the crown and preferred to life the easy life.


Live the easy life? Huh?

Also, I'll just say you're making some assumptions on order of events that you have no reason to assume are correct at this point.

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TheConductorSix
04/10/12 12:55:00 PM
#179:


"I am not Ned Stark. I know how this game is played".-Tyrion.

"Ned Stark was an honorable man."-Varys

"And I am not."-Tyrion.

"If I asked you to murder an infant girl still at her mothers breast would you do it without question?

No, I would ask how much?"


Tyrion has brought so much to the table this season that it's going to be redundant discussing it. His conversation with Varys was the firm reminder that He is not Ned Stark; he knows the tricks and doesn't deal with them politically. Need proof?

Deuces to the Captain of the Guard. Why? It was a dual mix of distrust and discomfort. If that guy is willin to murder babies then Tyrion would be easily dispatched. The conversation with his bodyguard was the most telling part:

Tyrion seems genuinely bothered by the ruthlessness of everyone around him. Such a complex character that Dinklage works wonders with.

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TheConductorSix
04/10/12 1:04:00 PM
#180:


"Sometimes it is those with the most power with the least grace."

This quote, while not as reaching or grandiose as Cersei's, did the best job of defining the episode.

Everyone with any semblance of power lacked any and all tact. He'll, the man who delivered the quote himself used his power to threaten a whore With letting a man torture and abuse her.

We saw Cersei refuse to give back Neds body. We saw Tyrion use his power to grant him safety but butchering relationships along the way. The King's Guard threatened the men headed to the wall and the captain returning the favor.

There was one Khal dissecting Dany's rider, the man in the wild showing Jon Snow exactly what happens to sons, and all the awesomeness of Stannis Baratheon and The Iron Isles which will be in the next post.

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TheConductorSix
04/10/12 1:10:00 PM
#181:


Bro, this is the television chat. We discuss what we've seen on the show. Most high class women aren't forced to marry a cheating, abusing King because their father wants to rule Everything and your brother has been shown to be disinterested.

We can only assume based on what we've been shown. The book readers need to stop being pretentious prats who ruin the show for us. You've read the book, congrats, you're a better person than all if us. Can you please stop talking now?

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kevwaffles
04/10/12 1:27:00 PM
#182:


I didn't say you were wrong. I said you had no reason to assume what you did. Trust me, I'm limiting my discussion to what I know from the show. And in the books, I didn't assume the order you did (or any other hypothetical order) if/until I was told otherwise. You're jumping to conclusions that aren't there.

From: TheConductorSix | #181
Most high class women aren't forced to marry a cheating, abusing King because their father wants to rule Everything and your brother has been shown to be disinterested.


Almost every high class woman is forced to marry, whether they want to marry the man they end up marrying or not. He also obviously wasn't cheating or abusing before her (though he was a womanizer). And it's not like Jaime could have been King without Tywin starting their own rebellion without any justification or allies, disinterested or not.

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CoolCly
04/10/12 1:32:00 PM
#183:


You can't honestly be saying Cersei has been forced into all the cruel things she does. She wasn't forced into having tons of sex with Jaime and have not one. but three children with him and then also forced to murder everyone that starts figuring it out.

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TheConductorSix
04/10/12 1:36:00 PM
#184:


You dont get it. This has nothing to do with ancient times and women forcedto marry.

What makes Game of Thrones so good is how relateable it is to modern times. Cersei is another women forced to take on the male role in a family. It's why she's so cold hearted and ruthless. We've all worked with women like this. It makes Cersei endlessly entertaining because you get her.

Season 1 she was a woman stuck in a bad marriage for the sake of her kids. Season 2 she's a woman with enough power to have to make all the hard decisions but not enough power to control her son.

As for Jaime, he's shown nothing but disinterest in doing anything but having sex with his sister. He's completely aloof towards being Hand, he shows no ambition towards anything and seems almost apathetic and fatalistic towards his capture. This what we've seen so far.

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Solfadore
04/10/12 7:58:00 PM
#185:


It's now official: GoT has been renewed for a third season! It will be glorious.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/game-of-thrones-season-3-renewed_n_1400121.html

(As usual, I would avoid looking at comments. I didn't see anything glaring in there, but you never know.)

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Jeff Zero
04/11/12 10:45:00 AM
#186:


It's also official that the third season will cover only the first half of the third book, which was discussed but never confirmed until now. And ratings will have to plummet tremendously to stop a fourth from happening.

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Jeff Zero
04/11/12 10:51:00 AM
#187:


There were many plays on being watched in "The Night Lands". From the obvious such as Littlefinger peering in on a man being 'serviced' who in turn savored peering in on a couple getting it on and Arya turning almost-but-not-quite to the viewer in the opening scene... to the more subtle machinations of Varys peering in on Tyrion by conversing with Shae and the bluntness of Jon Snow peering in on Craster's baby drama and then getting bonked upside the head as an episode finisher.

Power in Westeros (and abroad) is about who has the largest view of the playing field. And sometimes alleged power falls silent, such as Theon's homecoming. He sees the smallness of the docks -- there isn't much to peer in on. Already the mood is set. And he can see all the broads coming from a mile away but he can't see that the one he's groping is his sister. And he can see the history of the Iron Islands and their might but he stumbles when his father just about disowns him altogether upon his arrival.

Davos on the other hand sees the field for what it is. He's forging alliances and ignoring all the gods but the man he follows, Stannis. Perhaps elevating a man to godhood has its own share of issues and I look forward to seeing where things go in that regard, but it's something of a metaphor, not an absolute.

And then we have Melisandre, so confident that she sees all that what does she do after promising Stannis a son in a seductive moment? She totals the playing field altogether, shoving aside all those pieces in their shared passion. She's eradicating Stannis' view of the 'field' and replacing it with her own. Fiendish woman.

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saveus_Maria
04/12/12 12:09:00 AM
#188:


DEEP

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Menji76
04/12/12 12:14:00 AM
#189:


great read

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AlecTrevelyan006
04/12/12 8:09:00 PM
#190:


Only one thing is certain. The Alec is always right eventually...

Sunday is Coming.

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AlecTrevelyan006
04/14/12 11:43:00 AM
#191:


One day more.

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Solfadore
04/14/12 12:20:00 PM
#192:


Ours is the Sunday.

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TheConductorSix
04/14/12 1:00:00 PM
#193:


More Dany Targ. More King Joff!

More Ser Kingslayer Jaime

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TimJab
04/14/12 1:02:00 PM
#194:


i like dany but i don't want anymore of her wandering through the desert unless she chooses to do so naked

just have her reappear in a few episodes when she gets out of there

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TimJab
04/14/12 1:07:00 PM
#195:


oh and a few quick questions about jaime

he was a guard for the king robert overthrew (who was daenary's father?) correct? and when robert's forces closed in, he betrayed the king and killed him right? and robert retained him in the same position? and not only that, he married his sister? i understand he owed him one, but why would he trust a man who just betrayed the last king? given that the lannisters eventually did him in too, it seems like an egregious oversight

edit: oh, and tywin lannister was hand of the king for the previous king right? why did he get demoted if the rest of the lannisters were rewarded?

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saveus_Maria
04/14/12 1:13:00 PM
#196:


it sounds like you have the gist of it correct. the situation is a bit more complicated than it seems at first glance, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to discuss considering I don't remember what exactly has been revealed on the show (and what stuff they even plan to reveal at all). so far it sort of seems like they're kind of glossing over the stuff that happened in the past, where in the books you sort of have more history behind the world being revealed as the events move forward.

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Solfadore
04/14/12 1:29:00 PM
#197:


he was a guard for the king robert overthrew (who was daenary's father?) correct? and when robert's forces closed in, he betrayed the king and killed him right?
That is correct. Jaime was a member of the Kingsguard under Aerys, the Mad King, whom he killed, earning him the moniker 'Kingslayer'.

and robert retained him in the same position? and not only that, he married his sister? i understand he owed him one, but why would he trust a man who just betrayed the last king? given that the lannisters eventually did him in too, it seems like an egregious oversight
I don't recall it being ever spelled out explicitly in the books. I think the gist of it is that Robert needed the Lannisters to hold the throne securely. I won't go in any more detail, given that the show might decide to flesh things out a bit more (it might not, but we'll see in time).

edit: oh, and tywin lannister was hand of the king for the previous king right? why did he get demoted if the rest of the lannisters were rewarded?
He was Hand of the King under Aerys - that much is true. It's hard to go in further detail, though, given that the show might try to outline things a bit further. Or it might not, but again, who knows?

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AlecTrevelyan006
04/14/12 1:45:00 PM
#198:


From: TimJab | #195
oh and a few quick questions about jaime

he was a guard for the king robert overthrew (who was daenary's father?) correct? and when robert's forces closed in, he betrayed the king and killed him right? and robert retained him in the same position? and not only that, he married his sister? i understand he owed him one, but why would he trust a man who just betrayed the last king? given that the lannisters eventually did him in too, it seems like an egregious oversight

edit: oh, and tywin lannister was hand of the king for the previous king right? why did he get demoted if the rest of the lannisters were rewarded?


I posted an explanation that only explains stuff from early in the first book. There are any spoilers, and I left out a lot of stuff that will probably be developed later.

If you want to stay completely away from the book, don't click.

If you're okay with book 1 spoilers, click message details on this post to read them.

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TimJab
04/15/12 8:08:00 AM
#199:


Huh didn't know any of that. Asked some questions in the message detail, but they're mostly rhetorical.

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AlecTrevelyan006
04/15/12 8:21:00 AM
#200:


You basically have it right Tim. Short answers in message detail.

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