I haven't seen the Star Wars saga and want to watch them. I read I should watch them in a IV, V, II, III, VI pattern in order to achieve the best storytelling. But I've also read that the new releases have a whole bunch of CRAP added to them (like Hayden Christensen being added to the end of the 6th film and the Sarlacc having a beak). However, there are also some nice additions, like the Ewoks blinking. My question is, are there any edits that both include the good changes while discarding the crap ones?
Though I honestly can't tell if Scorpio has actually seen any Star Wars at all before with how he mentions stuff. He said he hasn't, but if knows what the Sarlacc and Ewoks are.... >_>
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and it made me really want to watch the series and it sounds like that method is the best. Even without seeing the films, I can easily see that the first three episodes are clearly the worst, but the Machete Order makes it all cohesive so there really isn't a "worst or best" three.
and it made me really want to watch the series and it sounds like that method is the best. Even without seeing the films, I can easily see that the first three episodes are clearly the worst, but the Machete Order makes it all cohesive so there really isn't a "worst or best" three.
Looks like you spoiled the whole durn thing already!
That article about why Episode I is irrelevant was exactly what I thought when the movies were coming out. A lot of the problems Episodes II and III had were a result of poor pacing; they had to cram three movies into two because they dicked around doing nothing in the first one.
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It always blows my mind when I hear about someone who hasn't seen the Star Wars movie.
Really, there's not really a good reason to watch them in any order other than IV, V, VI and then if you really feel the need to watch the prequels, continue with I, II, III.
Keep in mind, the prequels feel very much different and that George Lucas had already lost his mind by that point.
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From: Dauntless Hunter | #010 That article about why Episode I is irrelevant was exactly what I thought when the movies were coming out. A lot of the problems Episodes II and III had were a result of poor pacing; they had to cram three movies into two because they dicked around doing nothing in the first one.
And yet somehow Episode 2 still feels like nothing happens for the first 90% of the movie. Honestly, if you're going to say nothing happens in Episode 1 you can say pretty much the same about Episode 2.
Viewing order should be 4, 5, 6. If you really like the trilogy a ton then watch 1, 2 ,3. If you just enjoyed it a "normal amount" watch 3. And obviously if you didn't like them stop because it doesn't get better with the prequels.
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That viewing order kind of makes sense. An interesting article, if plagued by typical Star Wars fan douchebaggery.
But honestly most of the changes to the original trilogy are completely benign and won't change your viewing experience.
But you know you should really just watch these films for yourself rather than listening to Star Wars fans whining on the internet. One of the most needlessly aggressive groups out there.
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I thought of Machete order before I saw this, except for the part where you exclude Episode I entirely.
I'm a sucker for backstory preceding the conclusion. I always felt watching three movies of backstory was a bit too much for three movies of "core" story, so this removing I thing seems perfect.
This made me really excited. I want to watch them in 4-5-2-3-6 order now. It's been a while since I last saw the films (and I've never actually seen Episode 2).
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From: EndOfDiscOne | #016 The internet blows the suckage of the prequels way out of proportion. They're enjoyable films. Good action and great music.
No, the movies are legitimately bad when it comes to storytelling, acting and writing. It's really a Michael Bay scifi trilogy come to think about it. They're dumb action/sci fi movies, which I do love too sometimes so it's not a bad thing, but in this case it is because well.. It builds on a universe that many people cherish and love and of course people were having high expectations. Don't expect anything like the original trilogy, which you should definitely watch first.
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unusual but I'm agreeing with EODO here, I-III are dumb sci-fi/action movies and there's nothing wrong with that. you still get light saber fights and john williams being john ****ing williams
The acting and writing are good enough to get you immersed into the universe though
Mark Hamill for example made me believe that he was a naive 19 year old boy with hopes and dreams. He was written simply, but straight to the point and convincing.
Hayden Christensen's lines and delivery for example are so off that it makes me cringe, he does not make me believe at all that he really loves Natalie Portman's character, who also falls flat by the way.
Not to mention that the dynamic and quotes between the three main characters (Luke, Han and Leia) in the original trilogy are way better and memorable than the dynamic and quotes between Anakin/Padme/Obiwan
From: Liquid Wiind | #020 unusual but I'm agreeing with EODO here, I-III are dumb sci-fi/action movies and there's nothing wrong with that. you still get light saber fights and john williams being john ****ing williams
don't be hatin!
But there's no good SPACE BATTLES! I could not give less of a **** about lightsabers and the Jedi who swing them. I came to see awesome starfighter dogfighting like only Star Wars can give you, and I got bupkis.
The really ****ty thing is that Episodes I and III have scenes that take place WITHIN awesome space battles, but instead of focusing on the battle we spend our time watching Anakin do boring crap.
-- SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion... But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!
The internet blows the suckage of the prequels way out of proportion.
No, it doesn't. The prequels are not on a Plan 9 from Outer Space level or anything, but they're still unbelievably bad. But if you expect movies solely to be visually pleasing and completely disregard story, dialogue and acting, then yeah, I guess you can make the case for them being enjoyable movies.
From: Dauntless Hunter | #023 But there's no good SPACE BATTLES! I could not give less of a **** about lightsabers and the Jedi who swing them. I came to see awesome starfighter dogfighting like only Star Wars can give you, and I got bupkis.
The really ****ty thing is that Episodes I and III have scenes that take place WITHIN awesome space battles, but instead of focusing on the battle we spend our time watching Anakin do boring crap.
This is a valid point that I never really gave much thought to.
(spoilers to follow)
Episode 4 = Awesome death star battle. Porkins and Biggs dying is ;_; but a lot of **** goes down in a great battle to blow up the death star.
Episode 5 = Battle against the AT-ATs on Hoth. Not quite an "outer space dogfight" but it still captures the desperate battle feeling you get in episode 4.
Episode 6 = Many bothans died to retrieve the plans that led to this awesome space fight that took place INSIDE of the unfinished superstructure of the second death star.
and then in Episode 1 all you get is close ups of anakin talking to artoo saying cute things like "oops!" when he messes up. I guess the movie gets partial credit for pod racing? But still nothing like the original trilogy.
Maybe this is why I love the Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron books so much..
From: Forceful_Dragon | #025 Episode 5 = Battle against the AT-ATs on Hoth. Not quite an "outer space dogfight" but it still captures the desperate battle feeling you get in episode 4.
Don't forget the ASTEROID FIELD!!
Not quite the same thing as Battles of Yavin and Endor, but it was pretty cool and given that we also got Battle of Hoth in the same movie, I call it good enough.
-- SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion... But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!
I was thinking about this earlier, and honestly, there's no real difference in quality between Episode III, at least, and Episode VI. Arguably Episode IV, but that one's kind of a different issue so I'll focus on VI.
Both have problems with acting and writing, and III arguably has the lesser issues there. III is better paced for sure, and while the Luke/Vader conclusion was outright excellent, VI sidelined the development of the rest of its cast while III dealt with a more complex narrative and cast and did it mostly pretty well. There were painful lines in both films, and really good ones. Both films did action really well but you have to give III the nod when comparing the two. Portman definitely gave the worst performance of either movie, but Fisher wasn't exactly a star in VI, because drugs will do that to you. Overall, both films were compelling if occasionally very silly sci-fi movies that had good plots and excellent action. Flawed, but with stuff to recommend for both.
So yeah I suppose what I'm saying is I just called a prequel equal to an original and there's nothing you can do about it.
And honestly, I and II weren't horrible either, though I will say that I was pretty much nothing like Star Wars. Definitely the oddball of the series on reflection. But yeah, they were mediocre at worst.
Edit: Battle of Coruscant was great, even if the focus wasn't on the whole battle. But that was kind of the point, it was supposed to be a POV scene. Also II had an asteroid field chase as well. That was okay.
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The Episode II asteroid chase was okay, but it was only two ships and neither one got BLOWED UP. It was a different kind of space battle, and it would have been acceptable if the Battles of Naboo and Coruscant had been given the kind of treatment Yavin and Endor got. But we never really got a big space battle that was given focus, and instead we got weighed down with lightsaber duel after lightsaber duel after lightsaber duel.
Seriously, I think III had more duels than the entire rest of the series combined.
-- SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion... But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!
I guess you could maybe make the case for VI being equal to III. III is by far the best of the PT, and VI by far the weakest of the OT - I really don't care much for it. Still, there's nothing in III as good as the Emperor/Vader/Luke finale.
As far as the epic space battles go, I'd rank them: IV > VI > I > III. The battle in III is ruined by horrible Obi-Wan/Anakin dialogue.
The Tatooine portions of VI (albeit convulted) were quite good.
And the battles at the end (destroying the 2nd death star and the Luke/Vader/Emp battle) were great as well.
But it really loses focus a bit in the middle I think. The whole fight with the ewoks and the ewok riding the speeder and all of that... It just feels a bit fan-servicy or something. It's high points are definitely on par with the other films though.
RotJ is my favorite. I think the throne room stuff is as good as SW ever got, and I have a hard time considering the Ewok stuff as bad as everyone else does since I loved it as a kid.
EndOfDiscOne posted... I have a hard time considering the Ewok stuff as bad as everyone else does since I loved it as a kid.
I was indoctrinated into Star Wars fandom from a very young age (Thanks, Dad!) but even so after all these years it's hard not to see some scenes objectively. And objectively speaking certain scenes just aren't as good. After so many viewings it gets harder and harder to sit through the badly constructed parts.
But on topic I don't think there are any "partial" changed versions unless you have a VHS/DVD version from a period after certain changes were made and before more recent (aka the worst) changes got made.
You'd have to find a timeline of changes and try and Identify/locate the least objectionable version. But then it will still be missing some of the few good recent changes.
No seriously, if all you care about is lightsaber dances and very clean environments ala green screen, then sure, the prequels are enjoyable. When I first saw them I was the appropriate age to enjoy all the special effects that the movies were made for. But after growing up and actually developing some standards, I see the special effects for what they are. And that's fake. It's all fake. There is no hint of realism to anything happening in these travesty ass movies. Unlike the originals, which had REAL special effects (I know that doesn't actually make sense, but it's true). Of course I mean, back when George Lucas actually cared, he made for real efforts to make his movies seem real. And oddly enough all those trick shots and camera movements made the movies seem way more real than any computer generated effects could.
Then you have the lightsaber battles. Which at first seem really good. Then you watch them a few times and you just... you SEE all the stupid crap. You see a thousand useless attacks. You see them aim for the lightsaber and not the actual person they're supposed to be attacking. In the OT you actually get the feeling that Luke and Vader are trying to attack each other but are effectively being blocked.
It's just too f***ing fake. And then you get all the boring crap in between all the stupid special effects. I honestly wish George Lucas had taken more of a Michael Bay approach. More explosions. More over the top action. Less dialogue. Much much less dialogue.
And the reason most Star Wars fans hate the prequels to begin with is because the reason we loved Star Wars in the first place was because of the god damn STORY. Yeah the special effects and space battles and lightsaber fights were cool, but there was still a really great story to be told. The prequel trilogy also has a great story to be told, but it was done inconceivably wrong in every possible way.
I swear that is the main bottom of the line reason that we f***ing hate the prequels. Immense potential squandered by a sell-out who used to believe that special effects were just a means of telling a story, and now believes that a story is how you tell special effects.
-- ~Halo You're not the brightest. http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/907/bandfinisher.jpg
Alright now that I got that s*** out of the way, I can help you out Scorpio.
Obviously no, there is no perfect cut of the films. But most of the edits and alterations that have occurred really aren't that bad. Yeah there are some that make me want to pull my hair out (Darth Vader saying no being the absolute worst oh my god I'm still just oh my F***ING GOD GEORGE LUCAS I'M HAVING TROUBLE TYPING BECAUSE I'M STILL SO MAD)
Ahem. Other than that, you have some other stupid things like Hayden Christensen. But the Sarlacc beak was one of the original edits, and I find those were mostly good.
-- ~Halo There is no Crane, only Scarecrow! http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3739/scarecrowq.jpg
The prequels look kinda cool, but you're always aware you're looking at a bunch of people walking in front of green screens. This is why, say, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is so much better, SFX-wise. Peter Jackson actually cares about making the environment in his movies look real.
From: Forceful_Dragon | #033 I was indoctrinated into Star Wars fandom from a very young age (Thanks, Dad!)
Oh hey, same here! My dad grew up when the originals were being released. And then of course he took me to see them when they were re-released (I was 7 or 8) and they were the best thing ever. Since then Star Wars has been one of the absolute biggest parts of my life. It's always meant so much to me. As it's always been one of the biggest bonding aspects between me and my father.
Overall the entire Star Wars universe is spectacular. I'm glad it's been stretched out so far with all the EU and stuff. And it comforts me to know that it should be around forever, or at least until long after I'm gone.
-- ~Halo You're not the brightest. http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/907/bandfinisher.jpg
From: Mr Lasastryke | #041 The prequels look kinda cool, but you're always aware you're looking at a bunch of people walking in front of green screens. This is why, say, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is so much better, SFX-wise. Peter Jackson actually cares about making the environment in his movies look real.
Yes good example. Green screen can definitely be good when done right. But again, that's just the whole point of the prequels and why they're bad in the first place. Everything is there to make some great movies. It's just that it was all done incredibly wrong.
-- ~Halo Now you learn the mistake of challenging me. http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2734/hieis.jpg
I was going to totally mock the idea of watching them in IV > V > II > III > VI order (with my suggestion being to watch IV > V > VI and then strongly consider ignoring the prequels entirely), but actually that article makes a lot of good points and has me kind of intrigued by the idea of the IV > V > II > III > VI order.
As for finding the movie with the fewest objectionable changes, shrug. If you can avoid the most recent changes, do so. I'd personally prefer to watch the oldest version of the films you can, but it's not really the end of the world if you don't. If there's a version that changes Palpatine to not be stupid in ESB but before Greedo Shoots First, that would probably be the best version, but I can't remember if there is a version like that or if those changes were introduced at the same time.
ShadowHalo17 posted... Oh hey, same here! My dad grew up when the originals were being released. And then of course he took me to see them when they were re-released (I was 7 or 8) and they were the best thing ever. Since then Star Wars has been one of the absolute biggest parts of my life. It's always meant so much to me. As it's always been one of the biggest bonding aspects between me and my father.
Awesome! Basically the same for me. I was probably around 7 when he had me watch A New Hope (1993 or so) and I quickly took up his passion for the movies. I'm very proud to say that he was on the local news for being one of the few in his area to wait as long as he did to see Empire Strikes Back when it released.
I was taken out of school on the day Episode 1 came out and I was old enough to got to midnight showings by myself for Episode 2 and 3. Needless to say the Prequels do not have nearly the same magic, but I do not regret it. Outside of Star Wars my dad and I are both pretty big baseball fans, but the similarities end there. (It doesn't help that he is a Dodgers fan and I'm a Giants Fan <_< )
Overall the entire Star Wars universe is spectacular. I'm glad it's been stretched out so far with all the EU and stuff. And it comforts me to know that it should be around forever, or at least until long after I'm gone.
The EU is where I really got involved in a way that my dad never really found time for. I know that he's read the Thrawn Trilogy (which is honestly the best place to start) and maybe a couple other books, but not too much for him. I think the X-Wing series is the best overall (especially the ones by Allston) but there are a ton of quality reads in the Star Wars universe.
The bad changes are very cringe-worthy and give me cause to question Lucas' sanity, but Star Wars will always be a part of me.
From: Lightning Strikes | #027 Both have problems with acting and writing, and III arguably has the lesser issues there.
It really doesn't. McGregor and McDiarmid are the only ones who give a good performance in RotS, and the latter has more of a camp value anyway. UNLLLIMITED POWAAAHH
From: ShadowHalo17 | #042 Oh hey, same here! My dad grew up when the originals were being released. And then of course he took me to see them when they were re-released (I was 7 or 8) and they were the best thing ever. Since then Star Wars has been one of the absolute biggest parts of my life. It's always meant so much to me. As it's always been one of the biggest bonding aspects between me and my father.
Overall the entire Star Wars universe is spectacular. I'm glad it's been stretched out so far with all the EU and stuff. And it comforts me to know that it should be around forever, or at least until long after I'm gone.
Heh, me and my dad share the same love for hockey. Luckily we're fans of the Blues, so there's no conflict there. But we have plenty of other things to bond over too, he's one of the greatest people in my life. Star Wars is just the oldest and most meaningful (to me).
He also never got too much into EU stuff though. In fact I don't think he's ever read anything that dealt with things outside of the movies. I doubt he knows much about any of it either. Aside from maybe what I've told him.
VincentLauw posted... I feel like we all had the same dad or something
But was your dad on the news? </brag> =P
Anyways EVERYONE who loves star wars needs to read the Thrawn Trilogy.
Those three books do the VERY best job capturing the magic of the original trilogy. Hands down and without a question about it. You don't have to go much further than that, but that trilogy of books should be a requirement.