Board 8 > I have a ton of MGS questions (whole series spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

ibnanomachines

--
Please don't go. The Drones need you.
Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded.

The answer to all your queries is nanomachines.

--
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSmokinghamster

Forgive me if the answers to any of these were obvious and I just missed them.

1. Is the Colonel Campbell in most of MGS2 the actual Colonel Campbell, who then gets replaced by the AI Colonel at the end, or did Raiden never meet the real Campbell?
2. Was the entire plan of the Patriots in MGS2 just to see if they could recreate Snake in Raiden, and GW's destruction was completely unexpected?
3. If Liquid and Snake aren't genetically identical to each other (which is actually like 90% of Liquid's motivation in MGS1), how did Snake use Liquid's body to fake the DNA tests to ensure he was dead at the Tanker?
4. What was the point of Solidus impersonating Solid Snake at the beginning of MGS2? I'm not really clear what he got out of it. He fooled literally no one because everyone he told it to was a) Olga or Ocelot, b) believed Snake was dead (and thus he must be an imposter), c) was a Patriot, or d) was Solid Snake.
5. Why is Solidus such a dumbass? I mean... seriously. He's just such a dumbass.
6. If Fox-Die continued to nest within Snake after MGS1, why didn't Solidus die from it when he meets Snake in MGS2?
7. So... Big Boss and Liquid survived exposure to Fox-Die longer than anyone else (Liquid for hours, Big Boss for about forty minutes to give that long-ass speech) because... they're just awesome like that?
8. Why was Solidus so much older than Liquid and Snake if he was born at the same time as them? He was clearly in his fifties or sixties when Snake still looked like he was in his mid-thirties.
9. How did Fortune block those missiles at the end of MGS2 if Ocelot turns off her bullet deflection technology or whatever?
10. So the stealth technology Otacon creates in the 2000s already existed in the 1960s and... I guess everyone forgot about it for forty years? I'm not really sure how the story was served by giving The Fear stealth camo in the mid-sixties other than that without it, his only power would be "owns a crossbow."
11. Did the Patriots really believe Ocelot was working for them at any point, or did they know he was going to betray them and they planned to betray him first or something and Ocelot just turned out to be better at that game of silliness than they were?
12. Why did Big Boss stop Gene from setting up a country for soldiers in MGS:PO if he had literally the exact same motivation?
13. Did the members of FOXHOUND know that Snake had to succeed and that they were effectively sacrificing themselves to him to make Liquid's deception more convincing? Because that seems out-of-character for Psycho Mantis no matter how you read his death scene. Or did they think (apart from Ocelot) that they were really fighting Snake?
14. Did Ocelot's ridiculously convoluted plan to destroy the Patriots account for Gray Fox, Mr. X, and Raiden in MGS4, or was he just really good at working unexpected people into his plans?
15. If Fatman's motivation in MGS2 was just to prove that he was better than Peter Stillman, why did he continue to try to blow stuff up after Stillman's death? All it did was... nothing, actually.
16. So when Naomi removes the nanomachines in her body and lets herself die partway through MGS4... why is she doing that? Just to accept her death? Because I kind of got the impression that she could continue to live as long as she wanted and it wouldn't have been a big deal at all, but she just chooses to die even though she could easily just live and continue to help Snake and Otacon. Tell me if I misunderstood or something.
17. The final battle with Ocelot in MGS4... is he just fighting Snake for the hell of it, now that his plan is finished, and he has nothing better to do?

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

1. Raiden never met the real Campbell. It was an AI the whole time.
2. The Codec convo at the end during the battle with Solidus seems to indicate that Ocelot's version of the S3 Plan wasn't the goal of the Patriots at all.
3. Nanomachines
4. Not sure about this, perhaps to draw the ire of the Patriots since Solid Snake is their biggest threat
5. What are you talking about specifically?
6. Solidus was never targeted by FoxDie and he's not genetically identical to Solid
7. SUPERIOR SOLDIER GENES
8. Solidus was actually born later than Solid and Liquid, and so he ages more rapidly because Big Boss was older when Solidus was cloned
9. NANOMACHINES. Either that or the Patriots turned them back on to mess with Ocelot. Or she really does have powers. I dunno.
10. I guess because they didn't have a stealth camo that didn't completely drain your stamina for 40 years. Or it's just a gameplay mechanic and you shouldn't think too hard about it.
11. Well, I'm sure they believed Ocelot was still working for them until, well, he started killing other key members in the unit.
12. Big Boss hadn't arrived at that motivation quite yet, I think, but I don't know PO's plot all that well.
13. Liquid tells Raven not to kill Snake yet right after the tank battle. I don't think they planned on letting Snake kill them, per se. Mantis may just not have cared though.
14. Ocelot is always one step ahead. He never lets his prey escape. MEOW
15. He was also sent there by the Patriots to test Raiden, according to Ocelot
16. I guess she considered it appropriate punishment for the sins she's committed or something.

--
http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif

LeonhartFour posted...
6. Solidus was never targeted by FoxDie and he's not genetically identical to Solid.

This can't be right. FoxDie affects Big Boss and it's actually super important that Solidus is genetically identical to him.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

The 2nd strain of FoxDie affects Big Boss. FoxDie only targets specific people. Big Boss wasn't one of the people targeted by the original strain because, well, they had no reason to target him.

--
"The great GF...Bahamut."
"...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..."

LeonhartFour posted...
The 2nd strain of FoxDie affects Big Boss. FoxDie only targets specific people. Big Boss wasn't one of the people targeted by the original strain because, well, they had no reason to target him.

Ah, okay. I screwed up, thanks.


Also, I know there's probably no real answer to this, but in canon strength and skill, is it MGS4 Raiden > Big Boss > Snake > MGS2 Raiden? Because you've got Raiden in MGS4 flipping around and destroying everything and Big Boss effortlessly disarming Snake.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Canon skill is hard to determine, for obvious reasons. Snake regularly beats things that should be way out of his league, so it doesn't really matter if they're technically "better" than him.

--
"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

Probably about right. Though Snake canonically beats Big Boss twice, once with a rocket launcher, once with a can of hairspray and a lighter (really)

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Big Boss was the most skilled fighter of anyone in the MGS series, but that looks about right for a general 'strength' ranking. Raiden's cybernetic enhancements are obviously way ahead of the rest.


As for most of the MGS2 questions, the thing about Metal Gear is that you have to take it in stride. The series was never planned out in advance, so new things were added, and changed, to make room for the ever evolving narrative, which is why some specific details from MGS1 or MGS2 may not hold up by MGS4 or Peace Walker. The more games that get added to the existing storyline, the more problems are going to crop up, just because they have to be able to tell the story they want to today even if it means sacrificing the consistency from what they said ten years ago. Leon did a good job of getting most of them, though!

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

1. He was an AI the entire time. Raiden never met him in person (he even says so in a codec convo). I'm guessing the first time they met was in MGS4.
2. I'm pretty sure the S3 plan was just to see that they COULD make another Solid Snake if they needed to. Not just through Raiden, but any soldier in his shoes.
3. I thought they had similar enough DNA for it to trick someone. They just don't have 100% similar DNA.
4. Maybe it was just a silly plan of his that didn't really come to any sort of fruition? Or, maybe it was just to throw in a bit of confusion for the player.
5. Nanomachines.
6. Virus wasn't targeting Solidus and even if it was, maybe Solidus got killed too soon for the virus to affect him.
7. FoxDIE doesn't work immediately. It just depends on the person for how long the virus will take to kill them (at least I think this is the case)
8. He was designed to age even faster than Liquid and Solid Snake.
9. NANOMACHINES
10. And being double-jointed. I thought it was just his Spider camo giving him the stealth ability. Like, not a perfect stealth camo device, but pretty close.
11. I think they might have known what Ocelot was doing, but he was useful, so they decided to continue using him while he was using them.
12. I didn't play PO but I'm guessing because Big Boss got the idea from Gene and wanted it for himself?
13. I was under the impression that they thought they could really defeat Snake and didn't really know Liquid's plans. They just did as they were told like good soldiers.
14. I can see it being either way. Ocelot either expected and maybe orchestrated the inclusion of all those people, or he had contingency plans for unexpected surprises.
15. Fatman was still following orders at that point.
16. She had cancer and was probably in pain all the time, but her main reason for wanting to die was to atone for her sins or some bull like that. Basically she was tired of prolonging her life when she knew she was meant to die a long time ago.
17. Well after everything they've been through, Ocelot knew it had to end with a showdown between him and Snake. I think it was just a show of honor or something like that. Or you can use the realistic reason that it's the end of the game, time for the epic battle we've been building up to. Either way.

--
~Halo You're not the brightest.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/907/bandfinisher.jpg

ShadowHalo17 posted...
15. Fatman was still following orders at that point.

Was he? I recall Fortune and Vamp talking about how he's gone off the deep end and one of them will need to kill him (though it's of coure Raiden who actually does so).

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Well, if you'll recall, that last bomb he was sitting on was the big one, that would have supposedly taken out the entire Big Shell. Raiden ruined that plan by freezing it

Fatman also says that the Patriots would have been happy enough with that one going off

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

I'm not reading any of this due to laziness, but if you have a PS3, the MGS Database or whatever you can download answers virtually all questions. It is very comprehensive.

--
I'm "kind of a big deal".
http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png

Really good questions. I have answers for pretty much all of them --

1. Is the Colonel Campbell in most of MGS2 the actual Colonel Campbell, who then gets replaced by the AI Colonel at the end, or did Raiden never meet the real Campbell?

AI Campbell the whole time. Interestingly enough, the game never actually calls him Campbell -- it's always just "Colonel"


2. Was the entire plan of the Patriots in MGS2 just to see if they could recreate Snake in Raiden, and GW's destruction was completely unexpected?

It had two purposes. First -- see if they can create another soldier on the level of snake by taking an ordinary soldier and putting him through an experience similar to shadow moses. Second -- test the new GW AI to see if it could pass as an actual human. It was just as much a test for the AI as it was for Raiden.


3. If Liquid and Snake aren't genetically identical to each other (which is actually like 90% of Liquid's motivation in MGS1), how did Snake use Liquid's body to fake the DNA tests to ensure he was dead at the Tanker?

Liquid and Solid are 99% identical. Enough to satisfy a lab somewhere doing a body ID. The DNA test needed for Big Boss/Solidus was more accurate and precise, so you really do need a 100% match.


4. What was the point of Solidus impersonating Solid Snake at the beginning of MGS2? I'm not really clear what he got out of it. He fooled literally no one because everyone he told it to was a) Olga or Ocelot, b) believed Snake was dead (and thus he must be an imposter), c) was a Patriot, or d) was Solid Snake.

This is actually a good point. I have no idea.


5. Why is Solidus such a dumbass? I mean... seriously. He's just such a dumbass.

Hmmm... Well he IS a politician.


6. If Fox-Die continued to nest within Snake after MGS1, why didn't Solidus die from it when he meets Snake in MGS2?

This is an interesting one -- if Foxdie killed Big Boss at the end of MGS4, it makes sense that it should kill Solidus too. Maybe Solidus never caught the airborn strand. I don't remember Solid and Solidius being within ten feet of eachother at any point.


7. So... Big Boss and Liquid survived exposure to Fox-Die longer than anyone else (Liquid for hours, Big Boss for about forty minutes to give that long-ass speech) because... they're just awesome like that?

They're just awesome like that.


8. Why was Solidus so much older than Liquid and Snake if he was born at the same time as them? He was clearly in his fifties or sixties when Snake still looked like he was in his mid-thirties.

Solidus was modified to age more quickly so that he could become president of the U.S. sooner. It's the same way that Solid Snake becomes Old Snake so quickly.


9. How did Fortune block those missiles at the end of MGS2 if Ocelot turns off her bullet deflection technology or whatever?

She really is lady luck.


10. So the stealth technology Otacon creates in the 2000s already existed in the 1960s and... I guess everyone forgot about it for forty years? I'm not really sure how the story was served by giving The Fear stealth camo in the mid-sixties other than that without it, his only power would be "owns a crossbow."

Interesting point, but keep in mind The Fear's technology is very imperfect. It doesn't give 100% camouflage and there's the stamina issue. I don't remember what the ingame explanation for it was.

11. Did the Patriots really believe Ocelot was working for them at any point, or did they know he was going to betray them and they planned to betray him first or something and Ocelot just turned out to be better at that game of silliness than they were?

I think the Patriots believed Ocelot was working for them.


12. Why did Big Boss stop Gene from setting up a country for soldiers in MGS:PO if he had literally the exact same motivation?

At the time, Bit Boss's priority was clearing his name and the name of his friends. It wasn't really until haver Peace Walker that he really became like Gene. However, Gene saw that Big Boss would eventually reach the same conclusion he had, so he gives Big Boss the funds to start his army.


13. Did the members of FOXHOUND know that Snake had to succeed and that they were effectively sacrificing themselves to him to make Liquid's deception more convincing? Because that seems out-of-character for Psycho Mantis no matter how you read his death scene. Or did they think (apart from Ocelot) that they were really fighting Snake?

Liquid's plan is quite smart -- if Snake/Maryl Succeeds, so does Liquid because the nukes will be armed. If Snake/Maryl fails (lets say he/she gets killed by someone in Foxhound), they just take the cardkey and activate the nuke. The plan has two possible paths -- we just happen to see the one where Snake succeeds.


14. Did Ocelot's ridiculously convoluted plan to destroy the Patriots account for Gray Fox, Mr. X, and Raiden in MGS4, or was he just really good at working unexpected people into his plans?

I don't quite understand this question.


15. If Fatman's motivation in MGS2 was just to prove that he was better than Peter Stillman, why did he continue to try to blow stuff up after Stillman's death? All it did was... nothing, actually.

He proved he was better than Stillman when Stillman dies. The next step is to go down in history as the greatest bomber ever by taking down the entire Big Shell. He wants to be a famous killer -- to be a hollywood icon.


16. So when Naomi removes the nanomachines in her body and lets herself die partway through MGS4... why is she doing that? Just to accept her death? Because I kind of got the impression that she could continue to live as long as she wanted and it wouldn't have been a big deal at all, but she just chooses to die even though she could easily just live and continue to help Snake and Otacon. Tell me if I misunderstood or something.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure why she does it. I guess she didn't have much longer to live anyway so she ended it on her own terms. I'm not sure why she chose the time and place that she did though. Kinda silly.


17. The final battle with Ocelot in MGS4... is he just fighting Snake for the hell of it, now that his plan is finished, and he has nothing better to do?

Think back to MGS3 and how insane Ocelot is with his obsession of Big Boss -- particularly fighting him. In a sense, Ocelot is ending his rivalry with Big Boss. There's no need for the fight to be honest, but a big theme of the series is soldiers do what they're good at: they fight.

I don't think Snake and Solidus were ever nearby either, come to think of it. You had Solidus standing on a bridge while Snake was shooting at him from a helicopter. Snake handcuffed while Solidus was a bit away monologuing. And....that's about it

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

I think I get most of it now (thanks guys), though I guess I'm still unclear on Fortune suddenly getting her powers back and Solidus pretending he was Snake.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Actually, one more thing. If FOXHOUND assigns you a codename based on your performance in a test, and Snake just happens to be named Snake and such, how did every member of FOXHOUND happen to get a codename that they were already associated with (Sniper Wolf with wolves, etc) except Gray Fox?

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Because everyone involved was pretty sure Snake was dead. Better to pretend to be someone presumed dead to confuse your enemies, I thought.

Fortune getting her powers back is just MGS hax.

--
"To be fair to Herman Cain, we can't all be as wise as Slowking when he's wearing the Shellder of knowledge. Look it up, b****es." - Jon Stewart

this always really bothered me in the story. i just did not get it.

--
I'm "kind of a big deal".
http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png

because between PO and MG1 he developed in character and realized he agreed with Gene.

Oh and Gene was an evil bastard anyway

or something

don't think about these things too much

--
http://img.imgcake.com/Nevest356/1dollagifas.gif

It's fun to overthink Metal Gear.

But yeah comparing the Metal Gear games to the MGS games causes a lot more wackiness of course. Like how the world had done away with nuclear weapons in MG2 and Big Boss was the only one who had them, then in MGS we're back to a more real world nuclear weapons situation for the nuclear disarmament message.

Plus the world running out of oil and that whole thing not mentioned in the MGS games, etc. Also, Big Boss making Outer Heaven in the 1970s, going back to being the leader of Foxhound and it being a surpise when he's behind Outer Heaven in the 90s.

Metal Gear...?!

--
One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

I'm replaying the series right now, and I have to say, The Cobras are so disappointing. Only The Boss, The Sorrow, and The End are actually good. The Fury is kind of entertaining if you're in the mood for "astronaut on fire" shenanigans, but The Pain and The Fears... well, control bees and own a crossbow, respectively.

Though I do love how Volgin flips out when he hears that The Pain is dead, as if losing his bee expert is a huge problem for his plans.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

From: Anagram | #026
Though I do love how Volgin flips out when he hears that The Pain is dead, as if losing his bee expert is a huge problem for his plans.

It's more of a "These guys have a reputation as being the best of the best and one of them is dead?!" reaction.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

I think he had a deep love for The Pain, and who can blame the man. Guy has style.

--
One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

LeonhartFour posted...
It's more of a "These guys have a reputation as being the best of the best and one of them is dead?!" reaction.

I know, I know. It's just fun to read it as Volgin having great plans that involve a lot of bees and Snake ruining them.



I don't know of anyone who defends The Fear, though. That guy was almost as bad as Fatman.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

After playing Peace Walker, where you only fight regular guard guys and huge robots, any kind of superperson with style is more than welcome, The Fear included, he's better than nothing.

--
One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

Being almost as bad as Fatman isn't an insult, since Fatman is a god among men.

--
http://i.imgur.com/LjoWT.png