Despite Nintendo's best efforts to dial down hype for the upcoming Skyward Sword, the internet can't help but summon GET HYPE mode two months before a huge Zelda release. Right now, Zelda is the most talked about series on the board, and it'll probably remain that way for the rest of the year.
I started getting excited a couple weeks ago, when Nintendo announced a fantastic SS bundle and began sharing more information and media of the game. To scratch my Zelda itch, I decided to replay Twilight Princess (my third playthrough) for the first time in almost four years. TP itself is no stranger to online discussion. From 2004-2006, it was unarguably one of the most anticipated games of all time, carrying something like a ridiculous 80% attach rate with launch Wiis. However, while fans labeled it as the spiritual successor to Ocarina of Time pre-launch, it did not win OoT's universal praise. Many aspects of the game have been criticized over the years, and while some still regard it as an outstanding game and one of the series' finest, others call it crap. Here's my take on the last major Zelda's hits and misses (yeah, long post, but it's Zelda fever so I know some of you sad saps will read):
The Good
- Amazing graphics. Seriously, this game are gorgeous. It may be the most beautiful game of the pre-HD era, and if not, is certainly a contender for that title.
- Excellent dungeon design. There are some notable exceptions, but overall, TP's dungeons are a major triumph. This may be the one area where it trumps its older 3D Zelda bros. Stone Tower Temple alone (and Snowhead if you're a big fan) can't compete with the combined awesomeness of Arbiter's Grounds, City in the Sky, Snowpeak Ruins, and Goron Mines. I'm not even sure if OoT can compete there. Even the Forest Temple was damn good for a starter, and Lakebed continued the tradition of liquid frustration. Most dungeons have a fun gimmick that works well (monkeys in Forest, gravity inversion in Goron, cannons/humor in Snowpeak). Some of these, specifically the spinner rooms in Arbiter's and Link going all Spidey in CitS, represent some of the most awesome gameplay segments in the series.
- Combat is lots of fun. Hold the complaints, soldier - I said fun, not hard. Yeah, I only came close to dying a couple times near the beginning (I began to coast after building up a decent heart count), but I still enjoyed the combat. Swordplay is much smoother than in OoT/MM, and it keeps the same dynamic music popular in Wind Waker. Link has an arsenal of moves and weapons to dispatch enemies. While just going crazy with sword swipes is good enough for many, you can still get creative with Hidden Skills or a bomb arrow to the face. The game pauses for a micro-second when Link delivers a killing sword blow, which makes things all the more satisfying. It could have been harder - I'll touch on that later - but as a secondary feature in an exploration/adventure game, the combat was finely implemented. Hell, let me risk saying that I liked it more than in some games where the combat gets top billing (say hi, God of War!).
- Midna is a GREAT character. Very very unique; kinda hard for me to pinpoint how they pulled off making this goofy looking dwarf imp so coquettish, but it works. She's cocky and witty, but caring, and undergoes much more development than the average Zelda character. She's also very helpful and far more "alive" than Link's usual helper companion. Easily the best support character I've seen in the series.
- Lot of bang for the buck. This is a big game with tons of collectibles, and most of them were fun to get. Even on a third run while using FAQs for the pesky bits, it took me about 35 hours to 100%.
- Fishing, a popular OoT minigame, is expanded and improved. I didn't even know there was another sinking lure and loach in this!
- Bomb arrows. Broken, satisfying as a motha, and better than any magic spell I can remember
I agree with you on the graphics for the most part (and I even like the Twilight world!), but for me Metroid Prime would get that "most beautiful game of the pre-HD era" honor most likely. Well...Twilight Princess is certainly up there, at least!
I love WW's look as well. I think overall, the purple lunch box produced some of the most beautiful games of the pre-HD era with the Zeldas, the Primes, and RE4/REMake.
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PartOfYourWorld posted... I love WW's look as well. I think overall, the purple lunch box produced some of the most beautiful games of the pre-HD era with the Zeldas, the Primes, and RE4/REMake.
I was gonna start talking about FFXII and Okami, but yeah, Wind Waker probably looked better a half-decade before. Hyrule Field is fairly impressive, but that's about it.
TP's awesome though. Best Zelda IMO.
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I remember fishing took me a while to learn back in 2006. Anything that made heavy use of the motion controls did; I had never used anything like that before. I actually disabled motion controls to as big an extent as the game would let me during my first playthrough.
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I was fine with the motion controls in TP. I didn't even mind the waggle cuz it was the first time I had to waggle... didn't even think that every game would make you do it in the future. The biggest annoyance for me was dealing with that damn pointer fairy. Now I'm used to having a cursor on the screen, but it was definitely a big change from gaming on other consoles.
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- Amazing graphics. Seriously, this game are gorgeous. It may be the most beautiful game of the pre-HD era, and if not, is certainly a contender for that title.
in technical terms I think TP probably wins that title, I don't think it's even close in art direction though, which is ultimately the more important factor(okami still looks better than 99% of the HD games out there)
- Awful finish. People have debated TP’s biggest flaw for DECADES, but I think this is it: the game really stumbles across the finish line. Its final two dungeons – the two worlds’ respective palaces which have been heavily built up – are arguably its worst. There is NO ****ing excuse for that. You cannot fumble the ball at the 10 yard line; not when you’re a Zelda game on like a five year development cycle. The Palace of Twilight is one of the few parts of this game that are a chore to get through, and Hyrule Castle is notably lacking in atmosphere and presence befitting its stature, especially as a final dungeon (Wind Waker’s version destroys this one). It finishes with four consecutive boss fights – three are garbage and the last is meh, redeemed largely by the fact that you can use the fishing rod to win (and I DID). The final 15% of the game just feels rushed, which is never a good sign. Debate all you want about its other flaws, but if TP had built up to a great ending like OoT, it would be far more beloved. Please note that I’m not referring to the actual ending, which is wonderful as soon as Ganon removes his ugly mug from the screen (another testament to Midna’s strength as a character). That brings me to my next gripe..
- Ganondorf. He should have never been mentioned, let alone revealed as the master villain. The game should have revolved exclusively around Midna, Zant, and a brewing war between Zelda’s world and Midna’s. Zant should have invaded, created a sealed stronghold in Hyrule Castle (that Link/Midna would have needed the Twilight Mirror to breach), and used the time Link spent finding the mirror pieces to build a strong Twilight army ready to invade the world of Hyrule. By doing this, he’d also be transforming Hyrule Castle into a grotesque Twilight hybrid, similar to what Ganon did in OoT. This creates a more epic climax, more incentive to finish the game, and hopefully turns two bad dungeons into one good one. And we didn’t even need Ganon. He seems so shoehorned in this game; I can’t believe he was a part of the original storyline. Honestly, I bet he was included at the end to satiate fanboys who wanted this to be OoT2. And I’m sorry for going all fanfiction on you guys with my own end scenario, but what we got with Ganon was so bad, that even something from the mind of a stupid fanboy would have been better. I loved the guy in OoT, but Ganon totally ruined the end of this game.
- Combat should have been harder, or at least better scaled. I actually don’t think the beginning is that easy since you only have 3 hearts and some Twilight enemies can whittle that down quickly. The problem is that Link soon beefs up and the enemies don’t. Even more complicated armored enemies still hit for pillow damage. Near the end of the game, enemies – even grunts – should be going 2+ hearts of damage per hit. I’m not sure if TP has ANY single attacks that damage for more than two hearts. I can’t even remember if the Darknuts hit that hard. I came closer to dying in the beginning than I did during the entire Cave of Ordeals. Learn to scale damage and difficulty, Nintendo.
- The final light tears quest (Lanayru province) was way too long and frustrating. The first two are brief and confined to small areas, so they’re no big deal, but this one is huge and takes forever. This is probably the game’s biggest pace killer.
- As the game’s biggest collectibles, the 60 Poe souls should have been better implemented. There’s freakin’ 60 of em, so restricting their appearance to night is so unnecessary. Why force players to just wait around? I understand that OoT had 100 Skulltulas (most of which only appeared at night), but OoT also allowed you to transition between day and night at will. In TP, your only option is to just kill time before resuming the hunt. As a big collector, this annoyed me. Also, they should have followed OoT’s example by marking off completed Poe areas on the map. No reason not to, right?
There are plenty of games that look better than Twilight Princess. Check out Valkyrie Profile 2 for the best looking non-spots/racing game pre-HD. It looks amazing, even now.
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The first time I played TP I could never find the last poe. I swear I rechecked every single one, and it was nowhere. An area check would have been hugely helpful.
From: GANON1025 | #023 "Zant" wasn't listed in the Good list
what a horrible topic
He was a very intriguing character during the first half, but I didn't care as much after learning he was nothing more than Ganon's puppet. Like I said though, he should have been the main villain.
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I enjoyed the fight with Zant, personally. I know people dislike the transformation he takes at the end, but I don't really care. I like fights that employ different phases and scene shifts, so it was cool.
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I felt the biggest weakness was the second half didn't seem to flow together at all. It was all these great dungeons, but they felt like a half dozen independent design teams had made them and put them all in the same game. And I mean, I know that happens in Zelda but it just didn't feel... polished for me.
The first half of the game, while slow at times, felt like they had worked to tie stuff together. Characters make sense, you have a distinct reason to do things, it was all building up.
Then the end just unraveled. The story stuff is tossed aside and you are just left with dungeon hopping with nothing else. And yeah, they're great dungeons individually, but they don't make for a great second half of a game.
SubDeity posted... You forgot to mention that TP's Skulltulas are ****ing huge and terrifying and will haunt my nightmares forever.
Seriously. I can't play the game because of them/my arachnophobia. Just watching Zachnorn play it back in the day and seeing some spiders jump him in the 2nd and 6th dungeons in the tiny little webcam stream he had was too terrifying for me, let alone playing it myself.
From: AlecTrevelyan006 | #028 The first half of the game, while slow at times, felt like they had worked to tie stuff together. Characters make sense, you have a distinct reason to do things, it was all building up.
Then the end just unraveled. The story stuff is tossed aside and you are just left with dungeon hopping with nothing else. And yeah, they're great dungeons individually, but they don't make for a great second half of a game.
Yes, and I think it's no coincidence that this corresponds with Ganon's introduction. The first half had a lot of characters and story/gameplay elements revolving around them. The second half is all GANON without even showing Ganon. There's not even any dilemma with Snowpeak, The Temple of Time, or City in the Sky. They are just there to house mirror pieces and mean little to the story.
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He'll be replaced by the wan-faced wizard Lord Ghirahim, who has popped up in recent trailers. The gaunt villain was purposefully designed to contrast with Ganon's "very masculine, powerful, evil" characteristics.
Welp, Japan found an excuse to make the Big Bad an effeminate male. Never stop, Japan!
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Yeah, Ganondorf's not in the game. Skyward Sword's place in the timeline pretty much negates him having a role in it or some such, but there will be allusions to him.
Ganondorf was fine in Wind Waker and helped make OoT the classic that it is! He just wasn't at all necessary to Twilight Princess. I'm glad he's confirmed not to appear in SS.
-- Yoblazer: http://i32.tinypic.com/zlf1w7.gif Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
ganondorf is interesting in that he is somehow the best character in the zelda series...especially amongst the big three that repeat throughout the timeline, and yet every game he's in tends to be worse than the ones without him(majora's mask and link's awakening are the best games in the series).
- Combat should have been harder, or at least better scaled. I actually don’t think the beginning is that easy since you only have 3 hearts and some Twilight enemies can whittle that down quickly. The problem is that Link soon beefs up and the enemies don’t. Even more complicated armored enemies still hit for pillow damage. Near the end of the game, enemies – even grunts – should be going 2+ hearts of damage per hit. I’m not sure if TP has ANY single attacks that damage for more than two hearts. I can’t even remember if the Darknuts hit that hard. I came closer to dying in the beginning than I did during the entire Cave of Ordeals. Learn to scale damage and difficulty, Nintendo.
This is a problem in pretty much every Zelda game (except the first two, probably)... It definitely exists in OoT, and I'm sure it exists in plenty of other Zelda games.
Yeah, Ganondorf's not in the game. Skyward Sword's place in the timeline pretty much negates him having a role in it or some such, but there will be allusions to him.
I've heard that a timeline exists, it's kept in a vault somewhere, and only Shiggy, Iwata, Aonuma, and some members of the Zelda team have access to it. I think Reggie asked to see it once and was awkwardly stared down for two minutes. No Westerner has ever laid eyes upon it.
-- Yoblazer: http://8board.webs.com/ariel.jpg Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
PartOfYourWorld posted... I love WW's look as well. I think overall, the purple lunch box produced some of the most beautiful games of the pre-HD era with the Zeldas, the Primes, and RE4/REMake.
Oh yeah I forgot Wind Waker and RE4 (which is embarrassing seeing how I consider those to be among the most artistic games ever...).
Also I suppose the GameCube additionally has the likes of Viewtiful Joe, Paper Mario: TTYD, Eternal Darkness, and SSBM (which is at LEAST more vibrant than SSBB).
LeonhartFour posted... it's before OoT, apparently.
Don't forget that this also means that this is the first major Zelda title chronologically (I say "major" to distinguish from the handheld ones post-LA, gah).
Chrono1219 posted... Probably pointed out but I can't really complain too much about combat being easy in zelda, since it's easy in almost every version of the game.
also, yeah that last tears quest is so awful. I was doing another playthrough and I got to that part...and instantly stopped playing.
Last tears quest is worth it just for that giant bug mini-boss at the end.
Although, as I said, I agree that the flying section is awful.