Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Seymour/Golbez/Sephiroth/Ryu/Luca vs. Jake/Duke/Hibana/Chief/Samus

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 1:01:00 AM
#1:


Sephiroth is as he appears in Final Fantasy 7 and the Kingdom Hearts series (minus his Heartless Angel technique), with his legendary sword Masamune, limited teleportation, and access to his FFVII PC form magic. He may not use his Bizarro or Safer forms (or their magic), and no, he doesn't have Supernova. Sephiroth has hit Duke with Heartless Angel, completely draining his mana and making him extremely frail to the point where it'd be easy to OHKO him. This effect will last for a minute before recovery is possible. Also, instead of personally joining the battle, Sephiroth has sent three clones of himself, each with only 1/3 of Sephiroth's normal health, into battle. Raz (Psychonauts) has entered the mind of one of these clones. The clone will be reminded of painful memories, be overcome by strong emotions, develop nervous tics, and otherwise be distracted. There is a limit to the damage Raz does however, as he can neither seriously cripple Sephiroth's clone nor make him attack his allies.



Jake Armitage is as he appears in Shadowrun, with maximum possible stats and all cyberware upgrades. He brings to battle his Ruger Warhawk pistol, Defiance T-250 shotgun, Uzi III SMG, HK227 assault rifle, AS7 Assault Cannon, full body suit, and all his spells.

Duke Nukem is as he appears in the Duke Nukem series. He possesses his X-3000, Freezethrower, RPG, and CTX-2000 Tripbomb. He also has his Jetpack, Night Vision Goggles, Scuba Gear, and Holoduke from Duke Nukem 3D.

Hibana is as she appears in Nightshade. She has access to her best equipment, all her magic and techniques, and as many shurikens as possible. She isn't ever invulnerable however, and no, Akujiki won't be trying to take her soul in the fight.

Master Chief is as he appears by the end of Halo 3. He is equipped with his SPARTAN-II armor and rechargeable energy shield. He brings a Shotgun, Energy Sword, Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Gravity Hammer, dual Brute Maulers, Needler, Frag, Plasma, Spike, and Firebomb grenades with him into battle. He also has a single Deployable Cover. And yes, as long as they don't contradict the games, the novels are valid. Chief has become a much better tactical thinker.

Samus is as she appears in Metroid: Other M. She is fully upgraded with all her powerups from the game. And yes, she's authorized to use everything and do whatever it takes to win. Her armor has been replaced with a monocle, a top hat, a cane, a fake mustache, and a fine suit to do combat in.
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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 1:03:00 AM
#2:


Seymour/Golbez/Sephiroth/Ryu/Luca have challenged Jake/Duke/Hibana/Chief/Samus to a fight! Location of the fight: LeMU (Ever17) - Lieblich Pharmaceutical's underwater theme park, once teeming with crowds but now on the brink of destruction. LeMU is as it appears in Ever17 on the sixth day; numerous sections of the park have been flooded, yet some remain dry. The flooding will continue as time passes, just as it does in the game. Access to areas below der Dritte Stock and to the outside world is banned. Which side will win?



Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.

- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.

- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.

- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.



Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using and ).

- Provide a justification for why you think the selected team would win. Fanboy logic, ignoring character assumptions or rules, and vague or unintelligible justifications are all grounds for having your vote disqualified.

- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.

- This match will end in 24 hours.



Seymour Omnis has access to all of his skills displayed in FFX, though he does not have the Mortiphasms with him. His armor has been replaced with a monocle, a top hat, a cane, a fake mustache, and a fine suit to do combat in.

Golbez is as he appears in the Final Fantasy IV: The After Years with his best non-broken weapons and equipment, though he's armed with the armor he wears from Final Fantasy IV DS. He has access to all of his spells and techniques from both games, including Barrier Shift, but not Binding Cold or summoning the Shadow Dragon.

Luca Blight is as he appears in his boss fight(s). He has access to all of his attacks, but not the Beast Rune, which he never used because the damn thing was sitting in his castle. Luca has summoned a Golden Wolf in the middle of the terrain. The Wolf will side with Luca's team and continuously revive by Luca's side until Luca is killed. The Wolf will start next to Luca and cannot go more than 20 meters away from Luca, or else it will spontaneously die.

Ryu Hayabusa is as he appears in Ninja Gaiden 2, with all his weapons fully upgraded, as well as the Enma Fang and Howling Cannon from 2 Sigma. Ryu has channeled power from his NES adventure and summoned his two glowy ninja doppelgangers. The doppelgangers will mimic every move Ryu makes, though they may act of their own accord (i.e. they can move wherever they want, but if Ryu throws a shuriken, they all do the same). These doppelgangers are bright orange and all attacks will pass through them. Once Ryu is defeated, the doppelgangers will simultaneously all disappear.
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Lopen
09/13/11 1:19:00 AM
#3:


So here's the gist.

Duke starts crippled. Samus is all but worthless without her armor since all her weapons are built into it.

It's going to take a little while to find the other team in Lemu, but they won't be doing any sort of buffing before then with all the healing that needs to be done. Jake probably wastes most of of his mp just healing Duke (and trying and failing to do it for a while). Sephiroth and Ryu's clones and Luca's wolf will be the deal breakers here-- Ryu can use his clones to scout ahead and generally confuse/overwhelm the enemy and Seph if killed will come back with another clone and the knowledge of what killed him (and the element of surprise). Luca's wolf can also scout and absorb firepower to little effect since it'll respawn.

Basically there's just not enough damage output on the other team to kill all of Seph's team before they go down. Jake, Hibana, Duke, and Samus are all squishy enough that Ryu can chop their head off with one flying swallow. Chief is durable but he can only do so much.

Even if you buy buffs getting put out, Seymour Omnis has multi-dispel which will remove all buffs from the enemy team.

Worst comes to worst Lemu breaks apart from the combat and Seymour Omnis is the only one who can deal with water pressure and being thousands of feet under water and he wins by default.

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Lopen
09/13/11 1:22:00 AM
#4:


Also Sephiroth has Life 2. If his team is defeated, his second clone will respawn at his starting position and can go back to the position of his fallen teammates (the other team will have left by then) and revive his teammates using life 2.

Totally viable strategy here.

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 1:24:00 AM
#5:


revival magic is banned
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Lopen
09/13/11 1:26:00 AM
#6:


Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them

Sephiroth is as he appears in Final Fantasy 7 and the Kingdom Hearts series (minus his Heartless Angel technique), with his legendary sword Masamune, limited teleportation, and access to his FFVII PC form magic

QED imhhho.

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Lopen
09/13/11 1:39:00 AM
#7:


Seriously though Seph doesn't even need the life 2 cause his team's going to win outright. Ryu can literally kill 3 people at once with his clones and he's pretty much tailor made to fight this team make-up. He deflects/dodges bullets like they're nothing so Jake, Duke, and Chief aren't too useful against him here. Hibana is like Ryu Hayabusa ultra lite without 3 clones. And Samus isn't much useful at all.

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Achromatic
09/13/11 1:47:00 AM
#8:


Hrm.

Unsure who wins this, good match heh.

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Shoenin_Kakashi
09/13/11 2:03:00 AM
#9:


So uh, whats Stopping Ryu from going to town here?

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:10:00 AM
#10:


I'd honestly speaking take Ryu to solo this match. Lemu has a ton of walls and obstacles for him to bound around through to make him even more elusive too.

Granted I'm not the most unbiased source but yeah. Ryu with 2 clones against a bunch of gunners and Ryu lite is pretty ridiculous.

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Gatarix
09/13/11 7:20:00 AM
#11:


Well then. Sleeping is anti-town, it looks like.

Writing a quick argument up now.

--General combat points:

(1) Hibana has the ninja skillz to match Ryu.
Opening cutscene shows her taking on three enemy stealthed fighter jets. She leaps off a skyscraper onto the first jet (outspeeding the jet in flight) and destroys its cloaking. When the second jet fires a rocket at her, she kicks the rocket into the third jet, destroying it. Raw speed, reflexes, power -- she can hold her own. And, as mentioned, she's invisible.

(2) Ryu's dopplegangers are not all they're cracked up to be.
The problem with the dopplegangers is that they're constrained to follow Ryu's actions. If Ryu throws a shuriken, they mimic his action -- but there may or may not be an enemy in front of them at the correct angle. It's kind of like mimes in FFT. So basically they're going to whiff a lot.

(3) Duke's fine.
Mercs Heartless Angel doesn't cause any injury; it simply "mak[es] him extremely frail to the point where it'd be easy to OHKO him." (And drains his mana, but he doesn't have any.) Considering the teams are fighting in an entire amusement park, they won't meet within the first minute. So the Heartless Angel effect wears off with no ill effects.

(4) Jake has invisibility and armor buffs.
So the enemy has to deal with invisible Master Chief with heightened critical thinking and armor on top of his armor. Also, invisible Hibana.

Re: Seymour's dispel: Invisibility still gives us the element of surprise. If you think that Seymour's going to be sitting around casting dispel instead of attacking once the battle is joined, that would be up to you, but it doesn't blunt the impact of that first strike.

--Terrain also greatly enhances Team Chief's advantage.

(1) The control room enables Team Chief to monitor enemy movements.
A standard interpretation is that attackers (Team Ryu) start near the entrance of the terrain, while defenders (Team Chief) start at the heart of the terrain. In this case, that would be Dritte Stock, the lowest floor. The central control room located on that floor contains a life reading monitor which shows the placement of all living creatures in the facility. It doesn't require user input, just displays automatically on the map of the facility. So:
- Jake will know exactly when to cast buffs.
- Chief and co. can have fun with invisibility & ambushes (especially because Chief has ~critical thinking~).

(2) Duke has scuba gear.
Which is neat.


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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 7:29:00 AM
#12:


i am sure you were absolutely shocked to find that your match was up
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DeathChicken
09/13/11 7:29:00 AM
#13:


That wolf still makes no sense. Is it appearing in the middle of the terrain, and then immediately dying because it isn't near Luca?

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 7:31:00 AM
#14:


i have no idea what was intended but i guess i'd see luca start in the middle of the terrain too. it's the only way that 1) the wolf starts in the middle and 2) the wolf starts near luca
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SemiFinal vs Belarus
09/13/11 8:21:00 AM
#15:


From: Gatarix | #011
(2) Duke has scuba gear.
Which is neat.


this may tip the match for me.

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Dantezoid
09/13/11 8:22:00 AM
#16:


so Drak is saying his team starts in the "heart" of the terrain, is that the center? so does luca and wolf start right next to them

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Gatarix
09/13/11 8:25:00 AM
#17:


The way I see it, we start on the lowest floor, while the enemy team starts on the highest floor (because they just entered). Except Luca. He's apparently in the middle.


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Dantezoid
09/13/11 8:26:00 AM
#18:


man I might have the find a freaking map of this place just to vote tonight

damn you luca

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Dantezoid
09/13/11 8:29:00 AM
#19:


also how quickly is this place flooding, it might be duke vs ryus team if they start on the bottom and its quick

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 8:31:00 AM
#20:


not that quickly

it'll implode in like 24 hours

the flooding is also in random rooms, not from the bottom up
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KanzarisKelshen
09/13/11 8:33:00 AM
#21:


From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | #015
this may tip the match for me.


Scuba gear is like a grappling hook man

confirmed victory

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Dantezoid
09/13/11 8:34:00 AM
#22:


good to know

hey lopen you mentioned seymour could survive the pressure does he have any way of breathing underwater

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 8:36:00 AM
#23:


oh yeah also it's like 200 feet underwater not 'thousands of feet'
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DeathChicken
09/13/11 8:43:00 AM
#24:


Seymour is technically 'dead' in every form that isn't Base Seymour. Guessing he does not have to breathe

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Dantezoid
09/13/11 8:46:00 AM
#25:


well then I guess he could just chill in a flooded room and wait for dukes air supply to run out, assuming the entire area is flooded by the end

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GenesisTwilight
09/13/11 9:34:00 AM
#26:


From: DeathChicken | #024
Seymour is technically 'dead' in every form that isn't Base Seymour. Guessing he does not have to breathe


But Auron can't fight underwater in FFX! Obviously unsent have to breath!

>.>

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Dantezoid
09/13/11 9:48:00 AM
#27:


if auron fought underwater he'd be very likely to lose his liquor, though

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DeathChicken
09/13/11 1:56:00 PM
#28:


Alright, so, Samus is doing nothing, Duke is worthless for a minute, and then probably needs to be healed by Jake (I don't see anything saying Heartless Angel fixes itself after a minute, just that it can be fixed). Not a terribly big worry there, but it's annoying. Luca may or may not be starting in the middle of the terrain, because that ability is stupid, but that doesn't matter a ton either, since it'll be a bit before anyone meets up. I kind of figure Team Seymour isn't going to be doing a ton of moving around, since Omnis ain't the most mobile thing, but can rain some nasty hell if things come to him. And as noted, if this turns into a stallfest, he'll probably be the only one alive, since he's dead and all and doesn't need to breathe underwater

When people finally do meet up, Ryu beats Hibana (ordinarily I'd view that fight as kind of close, but Ryu's clones give him an advantage). Omnis is better than the gunners, with his cheapo built in physical damage reduction. Chief's easily the best guy on the other side, but I think if Omnis downs some of his help, he can't really pull it off with only Jake or Duke surviving as his backup. Samus not being helpful really hurts, here. Team Omnis

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:12:00 PM
#29:


Yeah omnis is a giant floating spirit thing I really don't think he needs to breathe. He'd totally beat Duke in an underwater skirmish too.

Hell Seymour is twisted enough to just sink the terrain himself probably if he thinks it's the smart thing to do.

Also the anti-hype on Ryu's clones isn't accurate cause while they have to mimic Ryu's attacks they can still move as they please-- so they're going to be in position to cut something at all times pretty much-- they just have to stick to the dude.

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:15:00 PM
#30:


Also the usefulness of Seph's clones are being understated-- if any crazy ambush plot or whathaveyou is attempted, in Seph's second life he's aware of the shenanigans and can basically become the ambusher-- his KH attacks + teleportation give him a huge damage potential if he gets the jump on the enemy team, and he will in lives 2 and 3.

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DeathChicken
09/13/11 2:19:00 PM
#31:


Yeah, I figure Duke, Jake or Hibana are all dying if Seph (any of them) gets in one good swat. They're only human

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:30:00 PM
#32:


Yeah this is the problem. Ryu's very good at dodging/deflecting gunfire and has shadow clones to scout (and he's a ninja so his awareness/stealth are good). Luca has an infinite life wolf to scout. Seph has multiple lives and teleportation. Ambushes aren't going to work terribly well and in a fair fight everyone but Chief on the other team is outmatched (the melee is too fast for the gunners and the gunners are squishy) and folds pretty easily.

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Gatarix
09/13/11 2:31:00 PM
#33:


The problem with Seph's clones is that each new one starts back at the team's beginning location and has to return to the fight. So not only is he out of the fight more quickly due to reduced durability, but the clone might find itself isolated once it returns.


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Lopen
09/13/11 2:33:00 PM
#34:


The clone being isolated is completely irrelevant as his damage output solo is enough to do huge damage to the other team.

I also don't believe Lemu's control room shows the location of the lifeforms so I don't think it's very good for knowing when people are coming. If it showed the actual location of the lifeforms a lot of the plot twists in the game simply wouldn't work.

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 2:36:00 PM
#35:


it definitely does
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Lopen
09/13/11 2:38:00 PM
#36:


Then why were people surprised that Sora was a hologram. And why was it hard to find people at times in the game?

I don't remember them once using the room as a means to find people.

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GANON1025
09/13/11 2:38:00 PM
#37:


As a connoisseur of clones, I find both Sephiroth's and Ryu's to be quite lacking.

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GANON1025
09/13/11 2:39:00 PM
#38:


Only Kid and Takeshi were surprised Sora was a holorgram, and even then Kid was only surprised in certain routes plus he has weird amnesia and often can't even think straight.

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DeathChicken
09/13/11 2:40:00 PM
#39:


As noted, I don't see a ton of reason why Seymour's team would want to go out hunting Chief's, since Seymour isn't exactly a speed demon and does better if stuff comes to him. And they presumably know how Sephiroth's ability works, so they wouldn't want to get far away from the start

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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 2:42:00 PM
#40:


sora added herself to the readings (which she can do since she controls the computer system) until the 'reveal'

can't say about finding people without specifics

but i mean i'm 100% sure it's explicitly stated so at worst it's a plot hole. takeshi might have used it to find the hamster, actually...
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Gatarix
09/13/11 2:43:00 PM
#41:


Sephiroth is "overcome by strong emotions" thanks to Raz, though. And when Seph is overcome by emotion, he wants to go set things on fire and/or stab them, not just hang out in a random stretch of corridor.


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Lopen
09/13/11 2:44:00 PM
#42:


There's a time Tsugumi goes off to find her rat

And a time You goes off to a maze

And then there's a point where a can gets kicked and everyone's like WTF everyone's here who did that.

Also Sara was in the vents that time

I don't recall the control room ever being used to find people and there were many times when it would be useful to.

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:45:00 PM
#43:


Well Sephiroth can go hunt them himself and probably do a good deal of damage-- and in his second and third lives he'll be more composed.

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Gatarix
09/13/11 2:46:00 PM
#44:


If he goes hunting by himself, he gets killed and then Jake heals. Being a gunner and the team's healer, Jake is the least likely to be on the front lines. So no lasting damage is done.


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HeroicGammaRay
09/13/11 2:47:00 PM
#45:


man drak i wish i still had your 'seph teleports away from the firing squad' argument
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DeathChicken
09/13/11 2:48:00 PM
#46:


It's more likely he'd drop at least one of the combination of Duke, Hibana or Jake before he falls, since he kind of only needs to nail them once (I might give Jake a little more credit to survive, because of his implants, but Duke or Hibana getting nailed by Sephiroth would kill em dead)

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Lopen
09/13/11 2:48:00 PM
#47:


Seph can one shot anyone that isn't chief and his teleportation will allow him to close on the gunners. Also he has huge AoE attacks that come out really quick in KH2 to suppress the numbers advantage when he's utilizing the surprise of his teleportation.

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Gatarix
09/13/11 2:53:00 PM
#48:


He's fighting invisible enemies, though -- if Seymour is going to camp the base, then he can't dispel.

In any case, I'm kind of skeptical about Seymour dispelling the invisibility in the first place. If Seymour were fighting Zeratul or someone, would he waste time standing there casting dispel instead of attacking? Offhand, I don't recall Seymour having any experience with magical invisibility such that he'd necessarily think "this is a buff, I should cast dispel."


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Lopen
09/13/11 2:56:00 PM
#49:


Also no one ever knew where "the extra lifeform" was. They just assumed it was a glitch or something rather than looking for where the extra lifeform was. So yeah it doesn't really make sense to me that it shows location.

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DeathChicken
09/13/11 2:57:00 PM
#50:


Jake's invisibility spell only lasts 30 seconds, then it needs to be recast. Not the kind of thing that's permanent

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