Board 8 > So is Snake supposed to be likable in MGS4? series spoilers

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2
foolmor0n 09/02/11 1:18:00 PM #51:	From: ZFS \| #047 Everyone was somehow connected to each other in a way that was a little too convenient. Isn't this like a MASSIVE series theme, ever since the first game (and especially in MGS2)? -- _foolmo_ 'so I can potentially win the guru without getting the final right?' - BlAcK TuRtLe <cite>foolmor0n posted [p:289802] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: ZFS \| #047Everyone was somehow connected to each other in a way that was a little too convenient.Isn't this like a MASSIVE series theme, ever since the first game (and especially in MGS2)? -- _foolmo_'so I can potentially win the guru without getting the final right?' - BlAcK TuRtLe </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 09/02/11 1:24:00 PM #52:	Not really, not in the way I'm talking about. The thing about the MGS storyline is that it has been constantly changing and evolving since MGS1, with no real set plan beforehand about where it would go. There has been all kinds of retconning from game to game, which makes some of the reveals look like pure fanservice, which they were, and not something that was ever foreshadowed beforehand. Well, the Big Boss/Ocelot/Zero stuff was in PO, but beyond that. It's very unfortunate how much MGS4 changed from its original vision. -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. <cite>ZFS posted [p:289803] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Not really, not in the way I'm talking about. The thing about the MGS storyline is that it has been constantly changing and evolving since MGS1, with no real set plan beforehand about where it would go. There has been all kinds of retconning from game to game, which makes some of the reveals look like pure fanservice, which they were, and not something that was ever foreshadowed beforehand. Well, the Big Boss/Ocelot/Zero stuff was in PO, but beyond that. It's very unfortunate how much MGS4 changed from its original vision. -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vlado 09/02/11 2:01:00 PM #53:	I agree Snake was best in MGS2. And I agree he's not nearly as great a character as Big Boss. He was basically the Patriots' tool throughout the whole series. I don't get why anyone would like him over Big Boss, but hey! This is the site where Link is considered best character ever and Ocarina of Time - best game. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html <cite>Vlado posted [p:289804] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I agree Snake was best in MGS2. And I agree he's not nearly as great a character as Big Boss. He was basically the Patriots' tool throughout the whole series. I don't get why anyone would like him over Big Boss, but hey! This is the site where Link is considered best character ever and Ocarina of Time - best game. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 09/02/11 2:09:00 PM #54:	He wasn't much of a "tool" in MGS2. Part of the point of the game was that Snake existed outside of their control -- they could account for everything except for Snake, he was the one thing they feared the most. That's why he was the "Ace." I guess looking back on that, post-MGS4, there might be some goofy argument that it was Ocelot's plan all along or something, but I try to avoid thinking about that because it was never the original intention. Snake also much better than Big Boss. Old fool got burned by Snake with a lighter and gasoline -- should have stayed that way! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. <cite>ZFS posted [p:289805] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> He wasn't much of a "tool" in MGS2. Part of the point of the game was that Snake existed outside of their control -- they could account for everything except for Snake, he was the one thing they feared the most. That's why he was the "Ace." I guess looking back on that, post-MGS4, there might be some goofy argument that it was Ocelot's plan all along or something, but I try to avoid thinking about that because it was never the original intention. Snake also much better than Big Boss. Old fool got burned by Snake with a lighter and gasoline -- should have stayed that way! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 09/02/11 2:10:00 PM #55:	From: ZFS \| #047 Well, that is part of the overall problem of MGS4 -- it's very MGS3-centric, at the expense of other games. Like, it was fairly easy to predict who the Patriots were after playing Portable Ops, but that they went full on MGS3 with that reveal was kinda weak. It made MGS's world feel very small and enclosed. Everyone was somehow connected to each other in a way that was a little too convenient. I'm pretty sure when I first beat the game and said this as my primary problem with the game you disagreed with me! Well good to see you've seen the light in any case. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:289806] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: ZFS \| #047Well, that is part of the overall problem of MGS4 -- it's very MGS3-centric, at the expense of other games. Like, it was fairly easy to predict who the Patriots were after playing Portable Ops, but that they went full on MGS3 with that reveal was kinda weak. It made MGS's world feel very small and enclosed. Everyone was somehow connected to each other in a way that was a little too convenient.I'm pretty sure when I first beat the game and said this as my primary problem with the game you disagreed with me! Well good to see you've seen the light in any case. -- No problem!This is a cute and pop genocide of love! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 09/02/11 2:15:00 PM #56:	I kinda remember something like this. I'm not sure if it was that exactly, but yeah. When I look back on some of the story decisions in MGS4, I'm not as happy with them as I was right after I first played it. I'm sure people who like MGS3 the most are happy with it, though! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. <cite>ZFS posted [p:289807] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I kinda remember something like this. I'm not sure if it was that exactly, but yeah. When I look back on some of the story decisions in MGS4, I'm not as happy with them as I was right after I first played it. I'm sure people who like MGS3 the most are happy with it, though! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen 09/02/11 2:19:00 PM #57:	I didn't say it in exactly those words but that was the gist. I more emphasized that it "seemed forced" rather than "the world feels small" but I agree with both statements. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! <cite>Lopen posted [p:289808] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I didn't say it in exactly those words but that was the gist. I more emphasized that it "seemed forced" rather than "the world feels small" but I agree with both statements. -- No problem!This is a cute and pop genocide of love! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 09/02/11 2:19:00 PM #58:	From: ZFS \| #054 Old fool got burned by Snake with a lighter and gasoline -- should have stayed that way! Pffft, you're giving Big Boss too much credit! It was hairspray! -- http://i52.tinypic.com/2zfiu09.gif http://i54.tinypic.com/10729w2.gif <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:289809] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: ZFS \| #054Old fool got burned by Snake with a lighter and gasoline -- should have stayed that way!Pffft, you're giving Big Boss too much credit! It was hairspray! -- http://i52.tinypic.com/2zfiu09.gifhttp://i54.tinypic.com/10729w2.gif </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 09/02/11 2:25:00 PM #59:	I knew it wasn't gasoline, but I couldn't think of what it might have been. Hairspray was definitely it. Best makeshift weapon ever. Everyone should play MG2 when the MGS HD Collection comes out. Very good game! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. <cite>ZFS posted [p:289810] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I knew it wasn't gasoline, but I couldn't think of what it might have been. Hairspray was definitely it. Best makeshift weapon ever.Everyone should play MG2 when the MGS HD Collection comes out. Very good game! -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 09/02/11 2:26:00 PM #60:	MG2 true espionage at its finest using owls to fool guards into thinking it's nighttime in the middle of the day the best -- http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2369/mythbattlers.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:289811] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> MG2 true espionage at its finestusing owls to fool guards into thinking it's nighttime in the middle of the day the best -- http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2369/mythbattlers.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 09/02/11 2:27:00 PM #61:	yesss -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. <cite>ZFS posted [p:289812] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> yesss -- Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vlado 09/02/11 2:46:00 PM #62:	Metal Gear 2 was indeed amazing. Basically the first MGS in 2D. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html <cite>Vlado posted [p:289813] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Metal Gear 2 was indeed amazing. Basically the first MGS in 2D. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 2:47:00 PM #63:	I like 3 alot but don't like MGS4. Is that weird? The thing I liked about 3 was the boss fights and BB as a character and how tragic he was. MGS4 only had 1 character and it was Otacon. Even as a side character Raiden wasn't as abysmal as Snake in his own game. <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289814] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I like 3 alot but don't like MGS4. Is that weird? The thing I liked about 3 was the boss fights and BB as a character and how tragic he was. MGS4 only had 1 character and it was Otacon. Even as a side character Raiden wasn't as abysmal as Snake in his own game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Demon HunterX 09/02/11 2:55:00 PM #64:	MGS2 is the best one overall, but MGS has the best theme and morals. Snake in MGS4 was fine. The whole "hes just a clone doing his duty, who cares" thing is really low. Hes still a person whose spent his entire life on the battlefield. And hes done nothing but inspire pretty much everyone hes come into contact with, including many of his enemies. -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city <cite>Demon HunterX posted [p:289815] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> MGS2 is the best one overall, but MGS has the best theme and morals.Snake in MGS4 was fine. The whole "hes just a clone doing his duty, who cares" thing is really low. Hes still a person whose spent his entire life on the battlefield. And hes done nothing but inspire pretty much everyone hes come into contact with, including many of his enemies. -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vlado 09/02/11 2:56:00 PM #65:	Except Big Boss did all that plus a ton more depth to his character. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html <cite>Vlado posted [p:289816] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Except Big Boss did all that plus a ton more depth to his character. -- If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 3:02:00 PM #66:	From: Demon HunterX \| #064 MGS2 is the best one overall, but MGS has the best theme and morals. Snake in MGS4 was fine. The whole "hes just a clone doing his duty, who cares" thing is really low. Hes still a person whose spent his entire life on the battlefield. And hes done nothing but inspire pretty much everyone hes come into contact with, including many of his enemies. I agree I really like 2, it's tied with 3 for me as my favorite. I don't think it's low. He's a reluctant hero. The only time he inspired someone was in MGS2. In 4 he's pretty much a legend, but the man behind that legend is still the same one dimensional guy he was in MGS1. And that shadow/light/destiny thing he had going with Liquid is pretty bad. <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289817] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: Demon HunterX \| #064MGS2 is the best one overall, but MGS has the best theme and morals.Snake in MGS4 was fine. The whole "hes just a clone doing his duty, who cares" thing is really low. Hes still a person whose spent his entire life on the battlefield. And hes done nothing but inspire pretty much everyone hes come into contact with, including many of his enemies.I agree I really like 2, it's tied with 3 for me as my favorite.I don't think it's low. He's a reluctant hero. The only time he inspired someone was in MGS2. In 4 he's pretty much a legend, but the man behind that legend is still the same one dimensional guy he was in MGS1. And that shadow/light/destiny thing he had going with Liquid is pretty bad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 3:03:00 PM #67:	From: Vlado \| #065 Except Big Boss did all that plus a ton more depth to his character. Exactly, BB inspired a whole generation. Snake was made to fill his shoes. I felt like I never really got to know him. He hasn't had a hard life because everything he did was laid out for him. <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289818] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: Vlado \| #065Except Big Boss did all that plus a ton more depth to his character.Exactly, BB inspired a whole generation. Snake was made to fill his shoes. I felt like I never really got to know him. He hasn't had a hard life because everything he did was laid out for him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Demon HunterX 09/02/11 5:07:00 PM #68:	I don't think it's low. He's a reluctant hero. The only time he inspired someone was in MGS2. In 4 he's pretty much a legend, but the man behind that legend is still the same one dimensional guy he was in MGS1. And that shadow/light/destiny thing he had going with Liquid is pretty bad. If you dont think everyone is inspired by snake in mgs4 then you are crazy. Hell, id say in mgs4 more people are inspired by his actions than any of games. Mei Ling, Otacon, Johnny, Campell, are all impressed and inspired by the actions of old snake in mgs4. Hell he even somewhat wins meryl's respect back in the final act. -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city <cite>Demon HunterX posted [p:289819] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I don't think it's low. He's a reluctant hero. The only time he inspired someone was in MGS2. In 4 he's pretty much a legend, but the man behind that legend is still the same one dimensional guy he was in MGS1. And that shadow/light/destiny thing he had going with Liquid is pretty bad.If you dont think everyone is inspired by snake in mgs4 then you are crazy. Hell, id say in mgs4 more people are inspired by his actions than any of games. Mei Ling, Otacon, Johnny, Campell, are all impressed and inspired by the actions of old snake in mgs4. Hell he even somewhat wins meryl's respect back in the final act. -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Emporer_Kazbar 09/02/11 5:22:00 PM #69:	Eh, I liked Snake in MGS4, but it doesn't help that most of that games dialogue feels kind of forced and cheesy. Probably my main problem with that game. Doesn't stop it from being great, though, IMO. -- Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09) http://www.sporcle.com/games/Kazbar/gfaqscontest <cite>Emporer_Kazbar posted [p:289820] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Eh, I liked Snake in MGS4, but it doesn't help that most of that games dialogue feels kind of forced and cheesy. Probably my main problem with that game. Doesn't stop it from being great, though, IMO. -- Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09)http://www.sporcle.com/games/Kazbar/gfaqscontest </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 5:35:00 PM #70:	From: Demon HunterX \| #068 If you dont think everyone is inspired by snake in mgs4 then you are crazy. Hell, id say in mgs4 more people are inspired by his actions than any of games. Mei Ling, Otacon, Johnny, Campell, are all impressed and inspired by the actions of old snake in mgs4. Hell he even somewhat wins meryl's respect back in the final act. I feel the only person he inspired was Raiden. Surprise surprise, he was the only person that came to him in his hour of need. Otacon is his friend through and through, and he was the only person that really connected to Snake. He's the only living proof that Snake lived. Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake? Man so much for the guy freeing everyone from Patriot control. The execution is really bad. It felt like Snake was a mute throughout the game. I couldn't really connect to him. The only time I felt like I knew the guy was when he spoke to Otacon through the Codec. <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289821] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: Demon HunterX \| #068If you dont think everyone is inspired by snake in mgs4 then you are crazy. Hell, id say in mgs4 more people are inspired by his actions than any of games. Mei Ling, Otacon, Johnny, Campell, are all impressed and inspired by the actions of old snake in mgs4. Hell he even somewhat wins meryl's respect back in the final act.I feel the only person he inspired was Raiden. Surprise surprise, he was the only person that came to him in his hour of need. Otacon is his friend through and through, and he was the only person that really connected to Snake. He's the only living proof that Snake lived. Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake? Man so much for the guy freeing everyone from Patriot control.The execution is really bad. It felt like Snake was a mute throughout the game. I couldn't really connect to him. The only time I felt like I knew the guy was when he spoke to Otacon through the Codec. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Emporer_Kazbar 09/02/11 5:37:00 PM #71:	From: GranzonEx \| #040 Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake? Man so much for the guy freeing everyone from Patriot control. The wedding is supposed to be a happy event. Why bog it down by talking about the guy who's going to off himself? -- Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09) http://www.sporcle.com/games/Kazbar/gfaqscontest <cite>Emporer_Kazbar posted [p:289822] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: GranzonEx \| #040Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake? Man so much for the guy freeing everyone from Patriot control.The wedding is supposed to be a happy event. Why bog it down by talking about the guy who's going to off himself? -- Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09)http://www.sporcle.com/games/Kazbar/gfaqscontest </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 5:45:00 PM #72:	From: Emporer_Kazbar \| #071 The wedding is supposed to be a happy event. Why bog it down by talking about the guy who's going to off himself? Because he saved the world? And those were the people he interacted with throughout the game, however little it was. Only Otacon and Campbell talked about him, and Campbell doesn't give a damn about Snake. <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289823] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> From: Emporer_Kazbar \| #071The wedding is supposed to be a happy event. Why bog it down by talking about the guy who's going to off himself?Because he saved the world? And those were the people he interacted with throughout the game, however little it was. Only Otacon and Campbell talked about him, and Campbell doesn't give a damn about Snake. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Demon HunterX 09/02/11 5:46:00 PM #73:	Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake? i mean we barely heard any dialogue from the wedding scene. The only people who did talk fair bit (otacon, sunny, drebin) all mentioned snake........ -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city <cite>Demon HunterX posted [p:289824] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Didn't you find it odd most of the people at Meryl's wedding didn't even mention Snake?i mean we barely heard any dialogue from the wedding scene. The only people who did talk fair bit (otacon, sunny, drebin) all mentioned snake........ -- (2:50:41 AM) Andrew Gripshover: and i've kind of accepted that pittsburgh is superior to my city </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranzonEx 09/02/11 5:52:00 PM #74:	I want to like him, I want to know him better too. I only know he was a pawn through and through. And it appears everyone other than Otacon and Raiden saw him as that as well. I would have loved if he interacted with those two more, or at least chatted with more people through the game. But to me he's just that guy that saved the world, it's like I read about him in the newspaper. I didn't get that connection like I did with BB, or even Raiden. I never got to know the guy more than "he's a clone, he's supposed to be badass, and he saved the world". I mean how can you be less of a character than a side character in your own game? <cite>GranzonEx posted [p:289825] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> I want to like him, I want to know him better too. I only know he was a pawn through and through. And it appears everyone other than Otacon and Raiden saw him as that as well. I would have loved if he interacted with those two more, or at least chatted with more people through the game. But to me he's just that guy that saved the world, it's like I read about him in the newspaper. I didn't get that connection like I did with BB, or even Raiden. I never got to know the guy more than "he's a clone, he's supposed to be badass, and he saved the world". I mean how can you be less of a character than a side character in your own game? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Biolizard28 09/02/11 5:52:00 PM #75:	Also, MGS4 trying to turn the mission control from MGS3 into the f*ing villains made me sick to my stomach. Looking back, Snake's interactions with the cast in MGS4 make it seem like he's already dead and is haunting his old teammates. His impact on the story is minimal since he's mostly coasting on the actions and suggestions of others. Everyone's ignoring him and dealing with their own problems. The only people who seem to give a crap about him, and I mean really** give a crap about him are Otacon and EVA, and the latter only to an extent. Naomi is a giant maybe, but she spends only a few minutes on a guilt trip for screwing him up so badly and then spends the remainder of the game banging Otacon and dying. -- I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo Now this is entertainment! <cite>Biolizard28 posted [p:289826] in So is Snak... [t:60205548]...</cite> <quote> Also, MGS4 trying to turn the mission control from MGS3 into the f***ing villains made me sick to my stomach.Looking back, Snake's interactions with the cast in MGS4 make it seem like he's already dead and is haunting his old teammates. His impact on the story is minimal since he's mostly coasting on the actions and suggestions of others. Everyone's ignoring him and dealing with their own problems. The only people who seem to give a crap about him, and I mean really give a crap about him are Otacon and EVA, and the latter only to an extent. Naomi is a giant maybe, but she spends only a few minutes on a guilt trip for screwing him up so badly and then spends the remainder of the game banging Otacon and dying. -- I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmoNow this is entertainment! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > So is Snake supposed to be likable in MGS4? *series spoilers* (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > So is Snake supposed to be likable in MGS4? series spoilers