Board 8 > For how good/entertaining the protagonists are,

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StealThisSheen
07/18/11 11:15:00 PM
#51:


Without reading the topic, Cecil and Tidus are probably my favorites.

Am I weird?



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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:18:00 AM
#52:


From: Anagram | #043
Specifically, Squall is kind of annoying at first, and though it's necessary so he can grow out of it, it's still kind of annoying. Cloud is never really annoying at all, except in AC.


Cloud and Squall are pretty much exactly alike at the beginning of their games.

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ZFS
07/19/11 12:20:00 AM
#53:


cloud has better hair

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:21:00 AM
#54:


Squall > Tidus > Cecil > the rest
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:21:00 AM
#55:


Brown hair forever

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OctilIery
07/19/11 12:21:00 AM
#56:


Cloud >

rofl no.

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:21:00 AM
#57:


From: pjbasis | #054
Squall > Tidus > Cecil > the rest


You were doing so well until you put Cecil third, too.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:22:00 AM
#58:


Zidane's probably the only character who got worse.

He was like the opposite of Cloud and Squall. Probably the most mature character in the party until he was all like "wahhh dagger's a princess" "wahh my destiny"
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ZFS
07/19/11 12:22:00 AM
#59:


Can't handle all them spikes!

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Anagram
07/19/11 12:23:00 AM
#60:


LeonhartFour posted...
From: Anagram | #043
Specifically, Squall is kind of annoying at first, and though it's necessary so he can grow out of it, it's still kind of annoying. Cloud is never really annoying at all, except in AC.
Cloud and Squall are pretty much exactly alike at the beginning of their games.


Not really. Cloud is gruff and mean (unless you choose the lines to be nice to Tifa) whereas Squall just pushes everyone away from him as soon as he meets them. It's more of a conscious effort on Squall's part.

Also, it's helped by the fact that Cloud already knows Tifa and Barret at the beginning of the game, so the only character at the beginning he's meeting for the first time is Aeris, whereas Squall meets everyone for the first time except Seifer and Quistis (and maybe Zell, I'm unsure of him).


FF8 spoilers



Orphanage aside, anyway

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:23:00 AM
#61:


From: pjbasis | #058
Probably the most mature character in the party


Now that's saying something.

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:24:00 AM
#62:


From: Anagram | #060
Not really. Cloud is gruff and mean (unless you choose the lines to be nice to Tifa) whereas Squall just pushes everyone away from him as soon as he meets them. It's more of a conscious effort on Squall's part.


Cloud and Squall are both "Don't care about anything but doing my job" at the beginning of the game. It's a pretty conscious effort on Cloud's part, too. He just breaks out of it a lot quicker.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:24:00 AM
#63:


OK he definitely was the most mature, but I'm saying he played the role of the mentor to everyone. It was like if Auron was the main character. It was great. At first.
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:25:00 AM
#64:


I dunno. I feel weird thinking Zidane is the most mature party member in FFIX when his idea of cheering someone up is taking a whiz together.

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ZFS
07/19/11 12:26:00 AM
#65:


Cloud > Zidane > Tidus > BARTZ > Cecil > Squall > who cares

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:26:00 AM
#66:


He was just being a good older brother figure. And it worked didn't it?

Not to mention he gave everyone lecture's that made sense and didn't really take crap from anyone.
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:27:00 AM
#67:


From: pjbasis | #066
And it worked didn't it?


...Did it?

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ZFS
07/19/11 12:27:00 AM
#68:


and though we're not ranking him, zack is the real inequality champion here true hero

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:29:00 AM
#69:


I-I think...?

If not directly he at least taught him to be a man and deal with his own problems himself.
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:30:00 AM
#70:


From: pjbasis | #069
I-I think...?

If not directly he at least taught him to be a man and deal with his own problems himself.


...Did he?

The only thing I remember coming out of that scene was Eiko being weirded out by the whole thing. The only thing Zidane was trying to do was to get everything off Vivi's mind for a little while.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:34:00 AM
#71:


I wasn't really saying that one scene was pivotal, but it was part of the process.

Maturity isn't just serious-mode all the time. It's like having fun with your life and not being bogged down by insecurities, while recognizing it in others. I guess that's what I mean.
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Vlado
07/19/11 12:37:00 AM
#72:


Ramza > Cloud > Terra > Zidane > Tidus > Bartz > Firion > Lightning > Cecil > Squall.

Haven't played XII yet.

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:39:00 AM
#73:


Zidane's charismatic and inspirational, I get that. He's a natural born leader and people are drawn to him. He has a way with people. He's basically the Final Fantasy version of Vyse.

He's also a bit flat. He doesn't really develop at all. He starts off the game as "I don't need a reason to help people" while also being a little flirtatious and girl-crazy. He ends the game as "I don't need a reason to help people" while now loving only Dagger. He has virtually no major moral/ethical dilemmas or any major instances of character development aside from the "You're Not Alone!" scene, which while one of my favorite scenes in the series, lasts all of 10 minutes. Unless something else is slipping my mind here.

Not that I really have a problem with that. Like I said, Vyse is pretty much the same way, and he's one of my favorites. Zidane has a strong and well-defined personality. But yet he doesn't really have a "journey" as a character like Cloud, Squall, or Tidus do, and that was kind of disappointing. I know people enjoyed the nice change of pace happy-go-lucky lead and all, but you can have both, as Tidus proved.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:42:00 AM
#74:


I agree except for the fact that Zidane loses points not for the lack of a journey, but some forced bad ones.

I don't care for his forced romance, and while the aforementioned popular scene is cool, it's also really dumb. It's not character development. It's some minor regression and then back to status quo.

I feel like he handled Vivi's identity crisis great but then somehow crumbles when he's up against the same thing.
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:43:00 AM
#75:


But awesome music!

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pjbasis
07/19/11 12:45:00 AM
#76:


That's why it's cool!
But dying really kills the momentum of that scene.
Did they have to pit you against an Adamantoise with two characters?
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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 12:46:00 AM
#77:


I don't recall ever getting a game over in that scene.

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GenesisTwilight
07/19/11 12:53:00 AM
#78:


From: TimJab | #006
zidane is way too low for this list to be taken seriously



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Anagram
07/19/11 12:55:00 AM
#79:


LeonhartFour posted...
Cloud and Squall are both "Don't care about anything but doing my job" at the beginning of the game. It's a pretty conscious effort on Cloud's part, too. He just breaks out of it a lot quicker.

I didn't really think it was conscious on Cloud's part, but it definitely was on Squall's, though in fairness, you see into Squall's thoughts many times and into Cloud's never.

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KJH
07/19/11 3:36:00 AM
#80:


Cloud has no thoughts pretty much. Dude's just acting out by Zack's last words alone! Which with the imitation is about the only reason he could pull off some cool in FF7 tbqh

In any case, I don't like the argument that Zidane's not developed. That seems like it's more a sappy, sloppy plot mechanism in most cases it's used that just mean someone isn't as good as they could have been the whole time or didn't have a well enough and balanced sense of identity without having to go from one thing at the start to completely out of character at the end. Faulting them for not having hideous and extremely glaring faults that are almost totally related to social attitude is just bleh.

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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 4:00:00 AM
#81:


Terra that high ruins this list, Anagram. Sorry. Her development in the World of Balance is respectable (although I still find "what is... love?" really obnoxious) but her development in the World of Ruin is just godawfully cheesy, even by JRPG standards. I see what they were going for but I laugh my ass off every time.

Cloud > Ramza > Squall = Zidane > Bartz > Cecil > Tidus > Lightning > Terra > Vaan > Firion

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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 4:05:00 AM
#82:


Conversely, I would rank the games themselves in this order:

Tactics > VII > IX = X > VI > V = VIII = XII > IV > XIII > II

I and III are not included as they were not included in the characters listing for fairly obvious reasons. If I were to include them, however, I would place I between IV and XIII and III between XIII and II. I really did not like XIII. Which is a shame because I actually did enjoy its battle system and music a fair bit. My issues with the plot's 'resolution' really, really put a sour note on the proceedings.

XII is ranked so highly because its gameplay is incredibly enjoyable to me. It also benefits tremendously from some of the series' best localized writing by far. The plot actually explains itself in full form (unlike XIII) but unfortunately it proves quite bland by game's end.

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 7:19:00 AM
#83:


From: KJH | #080
In any case, I don't like the argument that Zidane's not developed. That seems like it's more a sappy, sloppy plot mechanism in most cases it's used that just mean someone isn't as good as they could have been the whole time or didn't have a well enough and balanced sense of identity without having to go from one thing at the start to completely out of character at the end. Faulting them for not having hideous and extremely glaring faults that are almost totally related to social attitude is just bleh.


I already said I don't really care. Some of my favorite characters are similar to Zidane in that regard.

It was mostly just making an observation.

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KingButz
07/19/11 7:25:00 AM
#84:


From: Not Dave | #009
BARTZ RULES


This so much.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 9:13:00 AM
#85:


I don't think I would even include Firion on these lists.
He really isn't much of a character, more like an advanced version of a silent protagonist who just says a few reactionary things.
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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 9:15:00 AM
#86:


Your words are harsh!

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RappinHobo9292
07/19/11 9:15:00 AM
#87:


ZFS posted...
and though we're not ranking him, zack is the real inequality champion here true hero

Well obviously. Ranking him would just be unfair.

Zack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares?

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pjbasis
07/19/11 9:16:00 AM
#88:


The nameless protagonist of FFIII says about as much as Firion does!
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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 9:17:00 AM
#89:


pjbasis posted...
The nameless protagonist of FFIII says about as much as Firion does!

I know. I just felt the urge to quote some one-line dude from FFT.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 9:24:00 AM
#90:


FFT quotes are lost on me.
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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 9:25:00 AM
#91:


Your words are harsh!

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muddersmilk
07/19/11 9:30:00 AM
#92:


Unpopular opinion time!

Tidus > Ramza > Squall > Cloud > Zidane > Terra > Cecil > Lightning > Bartz >> Vaan > Firion

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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 9:32:00 AM
#93:


muddersmilk, your list is fine enough. So long as Ramza, Squall, Cloud and Zidane are in the top six or so anyone's list can be correct. Terra is too high but such is life.

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LeonhartFour
07/19/11 9:51:00 AM
#94:


You've got the top 5 right, although the order is a little off, so no big deal.

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KJH
07/19/11 2:50:00 PM
#95:


Firion should be there despite not really having any lines to accentuate how awful Vaan and Terra are for being below him.

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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 2:51:00 PM
#96:


Terra "Babies LOL" Branford

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muddersmilk
07/19/11 2:53:00 PM
#97:


Huh, I expected more people annoyed at me putting Tidus that high.

I'll also admit that Terra is above Cecil and Lightning in part due to how little I have played their games.

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pjbasis
07/19/11 3:03:00 PM
#98:


Cecil was the original Journeyman.

Not to mention he's, like, the oldest character mentally of these protagonists.
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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 3:04:00 PM
#99:


pjbasis posted...
Cecil was the original Journeyman.

Not to mention he's, like, the oldest character mentally of these protagonists.


Mentally maybe, but not physically! He's still literally 20 years old. That's college sophomore age, it's still kinda ridiculous for what he does.

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Jeff Zero
07/19/11 3:05:00 PM
#100:


muddersmilk posted...
Huh, I expected more people annoyed at me putting Tidus that high.

I'll also admit that Terra is above Cecil and Lightning in part due to how little I have played their games.


Most places you'll find that people will bash you for Terra being that low but apparently not here. I quite like FFVI -- Locke, Celes, Edgar and Sabin are all big characters from the game who I really get into. Terra just falls apart in WoR for me.

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