Board 8 > Seriously, why was the Epilogue even included? *HP Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Didn't she say that someone was originally gonna die but then she couldn't go through with it so she re-wrote around it?

Was that ever confirmed to be Hagrid because I bet it was.

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Gilderoy Crookshanks Potter

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What happened to Crookshanks, anyway?

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Hanging out with Hagrid probably

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He's the villain in the sequel

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Albus Severus and the Crazed Crookshanks

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Yeah you know what, all this is really making me appreciate how long the ending of Return of the King was. To say nothing of the appendices.

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Say what you want about Tolkien but he never left you wanting more detail.

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Albus Severus and the Half-Blood Kneazle

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Albus Severus and the Prisoner of Azkaban

(spoilers it's Umbridge)

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I once browsed a 3 million word fanfiction (see: skipped to the end) where it was all about Harry's kids, and Albus Severus was the main character. The final climatic chapter had him, in true people who are named Albus fashion, single handedly destroying 100 dark wizards (including a new dark lord) without them even breaking his shield. It was the most hilariously epic stomp I've ever seen, and it was only so because I hadn't read more than a couple thousand words of the story before skipping ahead.

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Aragog Xenophilius Potter

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Kreacher Macnair Potter

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From the Harry Potter wiki page on Albus Severus Potter:

"Albus Potter may got sorted into Gryffindor cause his Parents and his brother were at Gryffindor or Because when his father told him about the sorting hat listen his chose he had a great smile on his face"

.......Ok then.

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mad-eye shacklebolt potter

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MarvelousGerbil posted...
Write seven books.
Refuse to rewrite one chapter.

didn't she say years before the last book came out that the last word of the series would be 'scar'? that wasn't the last word so i wonder whether she was lying or if she actually did re-write it.

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CalvinbalI posted...
didn't she say years before the last book came out that the last word of the series would be 'scar'? that wasn't the last word so i wonder whether she was lying or if she actually did re-write it.

Did you check the first letters of the last four lines of text?

>_>

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Albus gay? That's dumb. There's not even illusions of this in the book.

She probably said that to appease the gay community. Seeing as no one else is gay in the book.

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No computer is smart enough to systematically make sentences so dumb

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Ed Bellis posted...
What is this even referring to? You asked a question about what's wrong with the epilogue, and I gave you my two cents.

I was mostly referring to the Sirius thing. >_>

Your points make plenty of sense, if I'm getting the correctly. It's like, you have this big, world changing event, and rather than going into the aftermath and repercussions, it's just "Who cares, yay weddings and babies"

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junk_funk posted...
Albus gay? That's dumb. There's not even illusions of this in the book.

She probably said that to appease the gay community. Seeing as no one else is gay in the book.

It actually makes his relationship with Grindelwald a lot deeper, and there's nothing to contradict it in the book either.

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JaKyL25 posted...
Didn't she say that someone was originally gonna die but then she couldn't go through with it so she re-wrote around it?

Was that ever confirmed to be Hagrid because I bet it was.

It was Arthur Weasley. Which makes a lot more sense since he would have been the one brought back with the Resurrection Stone to guide Harry. That would make the four people the stone brought back all people who cared for Harry like a parent. Not that Lupin wasn't important, but I think it would have been more poetic that way.

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It actually makes his relationship with Grindelwald a lot deeper, and there's nothing to contradict it in the book either.

Please. As if adding a sexual component to a friendship suddenly makes it "a lot deeper." More complicated and tense, maybe, but it's pretty clear that Rowling said that as a way of generating more discussion after the final book's release.

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From: JaKyL25 | #058
Say what you want about Tolkien but he never left you wanting more detail.

You are aware of the several books published of unfinished Tolkien material that fans adore, right?


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Ed Bellis posted...
From: Biolizard28 | #071
I was mostly referring to the Sirius thing. >_>

Your points make plenty of sense, if I'm getting the correctly. It's like, you have this big, world changing event, and rather than going into the aftermath and repercussions, it's just "Who cares, yay weddings and babies"
Oh. My bad!

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. Flashing forward into the future is fine, but the entire world the books constructed just got left behind abruptly. We get 'resolution' in the sense that we see a happy ending in the distant future, but there was so much left unexplored, left unanswered. JK Rowling said she'd 'like to imagine' Harry got a portrait of Snape hung in the Headmaster's Office. She - and we - shouldn't have to imagine that at all!

It's called ending fatigue, Ed. There's only so much you can stretch a climax before it winds down unnaturally and the reader ends up feeling cheated out of a decent end. Additionally, there's the matter of presentation - it would be very difficult to take the usual third person/first person viewpoint of the rest of the books and make it work over the years without making it much longer than any other chapter, or very jarring. That sort of stuff works in the books of Terry Pratchett, but on in the books of J. K. Rowling.

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Guilderoy Scabbers Potter

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Rita Bellatrix Potter as the kid that Harry shoved in the cupboard under the stairs to remind him of the good times.

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TBQH.

right along with Crabbe Creevey Potter... ignoring the fact he has 3 last names

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Cornelius Xenophilius Potter

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Phoenix Wright posted...
From: JaKyL25 | #058
Say what you want about Tolkien but he never left you wanting more detail.
You are aware of the several books published of unfinished Tolkien material that fans adore, right?


For various reasons. The Silmarillion is debated by Tolkien fans, due to the nature of its creation. Since it was edited his son, who was certainly the most qualified to do the job since he was essentially his father's protege, it was a rush job due to pressure from the publisher. Christopher Tolkien has admitted that had he had more time, it would have been radically different, because a lot of the material inside contradicts what Tolkien's latest intentions with the mythology were.

The History of Middle-earth series is admired for a variety of reasons, chiefly that it is a rare look at the writing process Tolkien utilized. I'd say it is unprecedented access to the behind-the-scenes look at the creation of his work. Multiple versions of various rough drafts, combined with Chris Tolkien's insight really gives an outstanding thought processes that JRR went through conceiving his world. Some have given Chris Tolkien crap, saying he is profiting off his father's work, but I am thankful.

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BoshStrikesBack posted...
It actually makes his relationship with Grindelwald a lot deeper, and there's nothing to contradict it in the book either.

Please. As if adding a sexual component to a friendship suddenly makes it "a lot deeper." More complicated and tense, maybe, but it's pretty clear that Rowling said that as a way of generating more discussion after the final book's release.

SPOILER WARNING

Well...no. There was definitely something that bothered me about Dumbledore before this interview. This man who was completely obsessed with love had no love interest; even after we learned his backstory, no woman with which he was particularly close (Minerva is dedicated to him, but he shares his confidences with a young boy over her). There isn't even hint of a woman we hadn't heard about through him having kids or something. But he acts kind of irrational and weird around three characters: Gellert Grindlewald, whom he seems eager to go along with and please in spite of how much they differ. Harry Potter, who causes Dumbledore to tear up when he declares that he is "Dumbledore's Man". And Severus Snape, with whom he confides a lot more than, say, MgGonigal in spite of it being more dangerous to do so. Notably, all three of these characters are male.

Dumbledore being gay isn't strictly necessary, but it does make the story make a lot more sense.

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if Chris Tolkien regrets doing a rush job on the Silmarillion, why didn't he ever do a revised edition? It might not help his reputation to release the same book twice, but the hardcore Tolkien fans would probably appreciate having the book be closer in line with J.R.R.'s intentions.

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Isn't this Pottermore crap supposed to reveal new details or whatever?

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Albus Severus and the Order of the Phonics

Turns out he was a squib and doesn't have very good grades in English class.

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Dumbledore being gay isn't strictly necessary, but it does make the story make a lot more sense.

Most of what you said can be attributed just as easily to Dumbledore simply not being into sexual love. It's not like he talked of love and never explored it: he was adored by the wizarding world, had countless good friends and countless more acquaintances, and- except for the gay comments of Rowling- it could be inferred that he tried the whole "monogamous partnership" thing and decided it was best to focus on his career/purpose in life.

I understand we live in a laughably over-sexualized culture at the moment, but just because a character isn't married or a raging bachelor doesn't mean he plays for the other team.

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Being touched that a student respects you so much as to say he was "Dumbledore's Man" doesn't make him gay. Especially since gay doesn't imply that he would be into 16 year old boys.

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MarvelousGerbil posted...
Being touched that a student respects you so much as to say he was "Dumbledore's Man" doesn't make him gay. Especially since gay doesn't imply that he would be into 16 year old boys.

This made me laugh.

On the note of Dumbledore's sexuality, I always thought of him as being asexual, and I think that's better for him as a character than being gay or straight.

Anyways, although the epilogue in the book did in fact suck horribly, most people seem to think that the book was fantastic right up until the epilogue. I disagree, personally. I think the book was fantastic right up until


Spoilers, I guess


Harry comes back to life after being killed. To me, there was a tremendous decline in quality after that, bottoming out with the epilogue. Just my two cents. I absolutely hated "GET AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER YOU *****!" or however that line went.

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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.

^I'll agree with that. Had she ended things on a more tragic note, I think the story would've retained more believability and would be more compelling as a result. Plus, no Albus Severus Potter!

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Someone got Dumbledore tattooed on their back?

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ffmasterjose posted...
Someone got Dumbledore tattooed on their back?

With how big the series is and how stupid the human race is, does this surprise you?

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BoshStrikesBack posted...
It actually makes his relationship with Grindelwald a lot deeper, and there's nothing to contradict it in the book either.

Please. As if adding a sexual component to a friendship suddenly makes it "a lot deeper." More complicated and tense, maybe, but it's pretty clear that Rowling said that as a way of generating more discussion after the final book's release.

The way that Dumbledore continued to ignore what was the right thing to do with regard to taking down Grindelwald indicates to me that he cared about Gellart on a lot deeper level than friendship.

If Hermione got on some kind of weird reverse discrimination kick and decided to violently uproot wizarding society and have the mistreated House Elves, Goblins, and Centaurs take their place, I don't think Harry would hesitate to confront her and take her down if he had to, and they're as close as friends can be without being romantically linked.

Ron, however, would have a lot harder time doing it because he loves Hermione on a deeper level.

I think Dumbledore being "asexual" hurts the story. The SINGLE MAJOR REASON he trusts Snape so severely despite all evidence to the contrary is Snape's deep love for Lily Evans, on a romantic level. Dumbledore has to understand love at that level firsthand to make that sort of judgment based on that evidence alone. That's not something that can just be understood secondhand.

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The way that Dumbledore continued to ignore what was the right thing to do with regard to taking down Grindelwald indicates to me that he cared about Gellart on a lot deeper level than friendship.

Not to sound like a complete fruit, but I've gotta chalk this up to people underestimating the power of friendship. A real friend is just as strong a connection, if not more so, than a romantic lover. Sometimes you can really tell apart a strong friendship from passionate love is if the person starts acting crazy, but even then, Dumbledore never really seemed to lose his cool.

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Think of JD and Turk, Turk loved JD more than Carla, but that doesn't make him gay.

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CalvinbalI posted...
if Chris Tolkien regrets doing a rush job on the Silmarillion, why didn't he ever do a revised edition? It might not help his reputation to release the same book twice, but the hardcore Tolkien fans would probably appreciate having the book be closer in line with J.R.R.'s intentions.

I think there are two reasons for this:

1 - He's freaking old. The amount of work that would take would be backbreaking, even for a younger person. For him, in his advanced age, it could be fatal.

2 - He realized it was it was impossible. Too much internal inconsistency, since many key stories that were core to the mythos hadn't been touched since essentially the 1920s, being contradicted by later writings. Furthermore, for many key themes were never decisively decided upon Tolkien, such as Galadriel's role in the Kinslaying, Gil-galad's parentage, and Turin's utimate fate with regards to the Dagor Dagorath, or even if the concept of the Dagor Dagorath should even exist in the first place!

Because of this, I think this is part of the reason why he released the HOME series, so that we could get an idea of Tolkien's true intentions regarding the Silmarillion. And in any case, there simply is no need to "re-do" The Silmarillion. Despite its detractors, The Silmarillion is still beloved by Tolkien's fanbase.

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The Silmarillion is a tough ****in read though. It's really too bad because, from what I can tell, the stories in it are really amazing, but damn is it hard to get through them. Almost to the point where you don't appreciate how good the stories are because of how tough of a read they are.

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I don't think it's that tough once you get past the creation story.

But yeah, the opening stuff takes some mental effort to really grasp since it's not even really something you can "visualize."

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Yeah I never made it past the creation story.

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The only hard thing about the Silmarillion for me is keeping track of the names. The big ones, such as Feanor, Fingolfin, Maedhros, Tuor, etc are easy enough, but it can be hard NOT mixing Finarfin, Fingon, Finwe,

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