Board 8 > Gamefaq Mafia Mafia Topic 2 Kirby or Death?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Guests
1. Lea
2. Wallz
3. Lopen
4. Death
5.sbell
6.red.
7. isquen
8. Ulti
9. IGCD
10. abacus
11.Peaf
12. Kirby
13. Corrik

Votals
(5) Kirby: Ulti, Death, Peaf, Lea, IGCD
(1) Death: Lopen

takes 7 to hammer

Lopen posted...

I'm not saying you should immediately think Death is scum

I'm saying you should actually investigate him instead of shrugging and saying "well I haven't got a scum read on him guys!!" when you're gladiating with him.

You know you're town. You know scum would have no qualms fakeclaiming doctor here to ensure your doom. You still give this claim all the credibility of an doctor claim under different circumstances in spite of that despite it being more likely he's lying scum.

It's either the mindset of scum vs scum or scum who knows too much and knows he's telling the truth.

I simply just don't think like that, especially with B8's record for mislynching protection. Forgive me for being cautious :P

Lopen posted...

Like if Death claims doctor under pressure, yes, let it be, live to fight again.

If Death claims doctor immediately to start a gladiator match-- does a real doctor do this or does he try to keep his role secret as long as he can and win through conventional terms first? Kirby had some murmurings about him being scum-- it seems absurd that a town doctor would immediately want to claim rather than just trying to determine and convince people his opponent his scum first.

If I had been caught up and online by the time Sultan announced the gladiator match, I would've claimed immediately, too. Makes sense to try and shepherd people to lynch the other guy since you have a power role worth keeping alive. Death didn't know I was Cop at the time, and I didn't know he was Doctor, either. It's an unfortunate situation all around, really. But the town equity makes sense there. I don't like that you're trying to spin this as something it doesn't have to be.

I'm ready to go to the next day. Ping me if you all have any other questions of me otherwise I'll let you all talk without me eating bandwidth.

Feel pretty safe in Kirby being scum at the moment. Think Death is too but Kirby is absolutely the lynch for me.

I just noticed the topic title.

Give me Kirbety or give me Death

Cake or Death?

What the fresh hell, Ulti.

##vote: Death

I havent seen enough from death or Kirby to really like the chances theyre scum. I wouldnt have picked either under normal circumstances. I hope Im wrong and theyre both scum but that seems very unlikely. At this point Im going for what I think is the optimal play based on their claims assuming both are telling the truth. It would be nice to potentially get some useful info from cop for a change and if death is telling the truth I cant see why scum would let him live, so I dont think his role would help town.

##Vote: Death

If we have a bg or any other sort of soft protection, or there are other night shenanigans, getting even a single read out of Kirby (again, assuming hes telling the truth) would be better than nothing.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


hasn't lopen b3en pushing death?

I'd like to hear them fight it out a bit more.

Lopen has also been swishy swashy on me being town or scum so take that with a lick of salt.

I didn't realize we moved here before 450

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


If you mean Id like to avoid lynching one of these two, sure. Lol. Im not really convinced by you and Lopens arguments. I have already seen enough people seem obviously scum and then be town. I dont think Kirby seems scummy enough to give him an edge over death for me personally. And not to mention Im not convinced you or Lopen are town.

Ulti is scum

dum pink ball

More like

scum pink ball

PeaceFrog posted...

I didn't realize we moved here before 450

Took me awhile too not sure why.

Almost 24 hours and no Abacus in sight. That's... a little concerning, to say the least.

I do wonder if scum has a preference in pushing for one of the two townies now on the chopping block. If Death is scum, obviously his scummates would push for me. So that would put suspicion on Lea and Lopen if Death ever flips scum.

But if Death flips town, then we'd need to think about how scum would try to nudge the lynch. Would they back off and let town decide? Or do they have a preference for which role they'd like to neutralize? I think SBell and Wallz have both brought up arguments for lynching the Doctor instead of Cop. I would think that if I were scum, the Cop would seem more threatening and would require more resources to neutralize, whereas the Doc has to either get lucky or have a fantastic read to actually block the kill.

So I think SBell and Wallz are likely clear. I don't think they'd try to protect the Cop if they were scum. It'd be optimal for them to get the Cop lynched, so working against that seems antithetical to the scum agenda.

I think if you're both town, then scum would generally be content to sit back and let nature take its course.

Ulti, i don't think you should be hard on yourself. Bad games happen, not every move is going to be as kickass as the time you were Princess and rocked the entire scum team.

At this point it's basically an "idk lol day 1" and if both wind up town I am going to let ulti have it.

Though I wonder, if one of the two (or ulti) is day-vigged, would the gladiating continue?

Ironically, this is the only time where a day vig kill that ends the day would be a mercy.

wallmasterz posted...

I havent seen enough from death or Kirby to really like the chances theyre scum. I wouldnt have picked either under normal circumstances. I hope Im wrong and theyre both scum but that seems very unlikely. At this point Im going for what I think is the optimal play based on their claims assuming both are telling the truth. It would be nice to potentially get some useful info from cop for a change and if death is telling the truth I cant see why scum would let him live, so I dont think his role would help town.

##Vote: Death

Well this is the the worst vote on me so far

Wallz, there is no way Kirby gets a scan off if he is town and I am lynched. Either he gets killed or he gets roleblocked.

Then again at least you gave a reason
Isquen didnt even bother with that luxury

Im not saying its likely, but Kirby getting a scan off is more helpful than you saving someone who very likely wont be the nk.

And I am saying its equally unlikely and that you should focus more on our play than our roles.

That is totally logical but Ive looked at your play and I think youre both town, and Im not convinced one of you is more town than the other.

Well thats unfortunate, but I cant help but think its a useful excuse for anyone not voting Kirby.
You can understand my perspective

You can't vote no lynch? Hmmm

Corrik7 posted...

Ulti is scum

had no reason to come in a defend me and then NOT gladiate me if he's scum.

can't get behind this

Isquen is another contender for "is he even playing?"

Well, I was catching up and saw that Ulti directed a lynch (currently on page 6, post 278).

I will take a brief 15 minute respite and then finish catching up. But as of now between Kirby x Death I am leaning Death.

Here are my notes as of now.

htaeD posted...
I have one reason in mind for why people started the vote soree with Lea, but maybe IGCD will have a different one.
I also understand the Sbell rush, though I would like to hear if anyone there was half (or even full) serious after all.

I don't know why, but this post rubs me the wrong way pretty early on. I'm not a fan of "I have a reason in mind, but I'm not going to say".

Obellisk posted...
That sorta sucks igcd. Just from like a personal standpoint. We just started this game and you are forcing me to have to be more than I want which in and of itself is scummy (of me, bot necessarily of you). I'm sorta damned if I do and damned if I don't in your eyes.

Sbell is seeming very defensive early on.

Isquen posted...
##unvote
##vote: Lopen

For real this time.

Isquen votes for Lopen randomly, ignoring the rest of the game focusing on Sbell.

As of now, with my catch-up Death, Sbell, and Isquen seem the most scummy. Death has been extremely noncommittal and has multiple times indicated that he had thoughts, but would wait until someone else answered first which kind of makes it seem like they're trying to piggyback off of other people's thoughts.

Sbell went really defensive really early on. I don't really know if that's par for the course for him - but when I see votes really early on in the day I personally don't get that upset knowing people are fishing for reactions and such.

Isquen has been available and around, making votes. But he hasn't (up to my catch-up) commented on any of the discourse that was around.

Lopen, I was going to ask what made you change and think Sbell was town after? And why do you think Peaf is scum? Do you still believe that? (Was going to ask this before I saw the Direct, now I guess it doesn't really matter until tomorrow).

As far as Kirby x Death, right now I am leaning Death.

Ulti, i think it would have been really juicy if you gladiated me and lopen. Because regardless of what these two flip, he's still at the top of my list.

I think abacus' activity is nai. Obviously i want him to participate, but we shouldn't go down his throat over it just yet.

If both flip town then i think lea and corrik both look slightly worse from it. But i feel like red has totally disappeared since it happened and he's my #2 right now.

Oh ninja'd by four minutes. Typing while working will do that i guess

The defensiveness was because igcd said his vote. HIS VOTE was serious.

does no one get that?

Thats all Abacus?

I don't know why, but this post rubs me the wrong way pretty early on. I'm not a fan of "I have a reason in mind, but I'm not going to say".

Because this will always be the right stance to take. Dont put a reason on the table before the other person (IGCD in this instance) gives their own reason. It undermines their own answer if they are town and gives them an excuse to parrot if they are scum.

Besides the reason (which I already explained) was the simplest one possible and the one IGCD gave in the end
"Lea was first on the playerlist."

Plus its pretty wild to me that you seemed to be giving Kirby no focus at all.

And death claimed doctor like 4 posts down, so as long as there isn't a counter claim I can basically scrub all my previous death thoughts from my mind for now.

Okay that was funny at least

(spoilers: Kirby claimed cop)

htaeD posted...

And I am saying its equally unlikely and that you should focus more on our play than our roles.

In all fairness to Wallz, he was part of the "lynch Sultan to kill Ctes" train back in Video Game Console Mafia. Thinking about the macro play/role interactions is in his wheelhouse as town.

And if we're both gonna end up dead by D2, I think it makes sense to optimize our chances of getting useful info from N1, even if it's highly unlikely scum would let either of us have that luxury. Though ultimately, it doesn't really matter which of us gets lynched first if we're both town. Scum might have a preference, though

ViolentAbacus posted...

Isquen has been available and around, making votes. But he hasn't (up to my catch-up) commented on any of the discourse that was around.

You guys really never learn, do you.

I dont think you have earned the right to say that

htaeD posted...

I dont think you have earned the right to say that

Whatever, I'm not the one on hteaD Row.

And why did you vote me again?

What's the votals

Call it a gut feeling.