Poll of the Day > Russia wants Ukraine. China wants Taiwan. What's the difference???

(+) Yeah! (+)

Russia wants to take Ukraine back and China wants to take Taiwan back yet Conservatives say the West should stay out of russia's ambitions and allow Putin to do whatever he wants..

But when China wants to take back taiwan and hong kong, conservatives say they must fight and defend them at all costs.

So why are conservatives okay with ukraine being taken over?

Russia is willing to make a push militarily, China is not. China can be kept at bay with aggression, Russia is a powder keg.

Duckbear is such a cuck for xinnie the pooh lol.

It's weird that he uses so many images of the actual winnie the pooh when the CCP has done its best to ban and destroy the character.

Well conservatives like Putin for one, they see what he did to Russia and they want that here.

Maybe stop being a leftist hypocrite?

When we want to intervene for anything, you lefties all lose your minds (whatever is left of them) about how we're warmongers, war is bad, war budget is bad, blah blah blah.

When we don't say anything, you lose your minds about us not being consistent warmongers such as this thread.

Make up your fucking minds.

mrduckbear posted...

So why are conservatives okay with ukraine being taken over?

The international unite the right movement, spearheaded by white nationalists, has infected Western conservatism.

A conservative thirty years ago would absolutely be banging the drum for war with Russia, but the same conservative today would suck Vladimir Putin's penis and call it apple pie if Tucker Carlson told them to.

There's already a lot of US presence around the South China Sea for one thing...

just enjoy the time America had when it was good. we got some hardship coming our way. Rome failed nothing lasts forever etc

First, it's LIBERALS stumping for Hong Kong and, more importantly, HK is a part of China -- a piece stolen by the British at one point. There's nothing to "take back."

I'm not as familiar with Taiwan's situation, although afaik it was historically a Chinese possession?

Crimea was a historical Russian holding with a Russian-majority population. Other than maybe being in the USSR, I'm not sure Russia has ever had any claim on Ukraine.

However, China-Taiwan has been at something of a stalemate for decades. The Russia-Ukraine potential conflict is new and, quite honestly, would probably be solved if NATO refused to offer Ukraine membership. If it does go to a war, things will turn out badly for Ukraine because the West won't get directly involved. And, honestly, you don't want super-powers fighting.

Russia doesn't own 90% of our manufacturing, that's why.

The_Viscount posted...

First, it's LIBERALS stumping for Hong Kong and, more importantly, HK is a part of China -- a piece stolen by the British at one point. There's nothing to "take back."

Part of Hong Kong -- specifically, Hong Kong Island -- was occupied by the British; it was later made into a colony. The colony expanded to other parts of China, culminating in a 99-year lease from China of territory on the actual mainland. Hong Kong was returned to the PRC when the lease ended, after some lengthy negotiations.

I'm not as familiar with Taiwan's situation, although afaik it was historically a Chinese possession?

On-again, off-again. Mostly controlled by China from the late 17th century to 1895, when it was ceded to the Empire of Japan at the end of a war. Japan had it for fifty years, until the end of WWII when it was ceded back to China -- specifically the Republic of China (which very quickly resumed its civil war against the Communists). What was left of the ROC government hi-tailed out to Taiwan in 1949 when Mao's forces won mainland China. It's been a stalemate ever since; PRC vs ROC, both claiming THEY'RE the true government of ALL China, and NEITHER side wants the third option of a Taiwan independence.

Crimea was a historical Russian holding with a Russian-majority population. Other than maybe being in the USSR, I'm not sure Russia has ever had any claim on Ukraine.

Pretty much this. Crimea's became a part of Russia in the 1780's (from the Ottomans), and it remained a part of Russia -- including the Russian SFSR under the Soviet Union -- until 1954, when they formally handed it over to the Ukrainian SSR.

teddy241 posted...

just enjoy the time America had when it was good. we got some hardship coming our way. Rome failed nothing lasts forever etc

Lol.

Looking at the wikipedia articles on China and Taiwan. Trying to figure out how long ago they were under the same government, and how often one government falls to be replaced by another. I'm getting the impression that Taiwan has a claim on China, not the other way around.

For Ukraine, I think Americans (not just conservatives) are tired of hearing about it. With the impeachment of Trump and the laptop implicating Biden of the same, Ukraine just seems like a source of problems with nothing beneficial about the relationship. This leads them to question why the US is entangled with Ukraine in first place.

Zareth posted...

Russia doesn't own 90% of our manufacturing, that's why.

This. Russia's GDP is something like the GDP of New Jersey.

Man, I can't wait to see how Biden manages to fail miserably at this new issue. I mean his greatest accomplishment so far has been to get his ass kicked by the Taliban and promise crack pipes to pathetic losers. I remember saying at one point I was actually excited for Biden to win the election because I wanted to see how much of a fantastic failure their "diversity" commie government would be and in less than a year, they have not disappointed me a single time.

Both countries should fuck right off and anybody who simps for them is a piece of shit.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Looking at the wikipedia articles on China and Taiwan. Trying to figure out how long ago they were under the same government, and how often one government falls to be replaced by another. I'm getting the impression that Taiwan has a claim on China, not the other way around.

That makes zero sense, but whatever.

JimBeamMeUp posted...

This. Russia's GDP is something like the GDP of New Jersey.

Russia's GDP was 1.483 trillion USD in 2020. NJ's GDP $634.8 billion USD. Not quite the same.

For added comparisons, Canada's GDP was 1.643 trillion USD (2020), Brazil's was 1.445 trillion USD (2020), France was 2.603 trillion USD (2020), and... most GDPs are pretty low compared to the US.

In fact, Russia has the world's 11th highest GDP
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/

The US leads by a huge amount, China has almost 2/3s of that, and then Japan doesn't even have a quarter of the US's GDP. Once you get all the way down to Switzerland (#20 or so), it starts to hit NJ territory.

Geopolitics are always interesting. Based on the GDP argument, it's always interesting as China is not a cultural exporter like the United States is, and in all honesty, it lacks the cultural exportation power of a country like Japan or the UK, despite their far lower GDP.

Modern conservatives would rather be Russian than American.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Modern conservatives would rather be Russian than American.

Modern liberals would rather be pretty much anything than American.

And who can blame them? It's a pretty stupid country full of pretty stupid people.

Judgmenl posted...

Geopolitics are always interesting. Based on the GDP argument, it's always interesting as China is not a cultural exporter like the United States is, and in all honesty, it lacks the cultural exportation power of a country like Japan or the UK, despite their far lower GDP.

I mean, cultural exports are more the result of the entertainment industry, whereas GDP tends to be a mix of natural resources, manufacturing, and refinement.

And having a larger population can factor into that because you have a more sizable labor pool

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

When you compare GDP and population, the US, China, and India are in the top 5 for both categories. If you compare the top 20 for each, 10 countries appear on both lists (including Japan, Germany, Mexico, and Russia)

As far as an entertainment industry is concerned, China is a little unique in that it doesn't have as much of an entertainment industry, largely thanks to its communist background. Things like video games were outright banned (with weird workarounds) for much of China's existence. However, much more importantly, you don't necessarily need a large population to lead in entertainment, particularly if you're producing entertainment for international audiences who speak your language. And, in the UK's case, they have the advantage of a historical shared culture with several of the nations that consume its culture.

And it's worth remembering Japan isn't exactly a tiny nation. It's still #11 for largest population (whereas the UK is #21). And, when it comes to size, China and India are vastly in front of everybody else -- the US is #3, and has less than a quarter of either population. And although India has a fairly robust entertainment industry, it's not a major international exporter largely because of the language barrier (which Japan gets around because a portion of its exported culture is tech, as well as things like video games and animation where it's easier to dub)

I want to keep both from being taken.

For me it's worry over TSMC.

I don't care about Ukraine or NATO. I'm not a European or a politician. To be honest, I don't entirely understand it.

NeoSioType posted...

I don't entirely understand it.

Vlad's taking advantage of America's weakened state to expand the Russian Empire; if he manages to draw Europe and Nato into the conflict, China will likely use the opportunity to make an incursion on Taiwan or other areas of interest in South East Asia.

Appeasement has never backfired

Blightzkrieg posted...

Appeasement has never backfired

We're only taking part of Poland and France...

Just. The. Tip.

https://youtu.be/jS4w5S-Jdb4

Canada wants Alaska

We'll trade you Greenland for it

The_tall_midget posted...

Maybe stop being a leftist hypocrite?
When we want to intervene for anything, you lefties all lose your minds (whatever is left of them) about how we're warmongers, war is bad, war budget is bad, blah blah blah.
When we don't say anything, you lose your minds about us not being consistent warmongers such as this thread.

I don't understand the supposed lefties who simp for Chinese and Russian imperialism. It's like their political takes begin and end with "USA bad," and I am the furthest left person I know. There is a schism between the anarchist left and the ML left that causes odd things like this to happen in discourse. As I am of the former, I do not think simping for any State's imperialist actions is something any self-respecting leftist ought do.

Paying attention to Vaush's content has been interesting because he has been fairly spot-on in his takes through this whole affair, which is pretty unusual because the topic is NOT his strong suit at all, but he comes into contact with people across the political spectrum with terrible takes on this subject.
https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1495884116901957633

Gaawa_chan posted...

I don't understand the supposed lefties who simp for Chinese and Russian imperialism. It's like their political takes begin and end with "USA bad," and I am the furthest left person I know. There is a schism between the anarchist left and the ML left that causes odd things like this to happen in discourse. As I am of the former, I do not think simping for any State's imperialist actions is something any self-respecting leftist ought do.

Paying attention to Vaush's content has been interesting because he has been fairly spot-on in his takes through this whole affair, which is pretty unusual because the topic is NOT his strong suit at all, but he comes into contact with people across the political spectrum with terrible takes on this subject.
https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1495884116901957633

I agree. Putin's play wasn't even subtle. I don't think anyone was fooled for a second that he was planning to invade.

But yea. There's a bunch of brainwashed far-leftists out there whose politics begin and end more or less at 'US bad'. Or, more accurately, 'anyone who isn't on the far left is a <insert horrible accusation here>!'. So if you're a free-speech absolutist you are supporting hate speech. Believe in capitalism and you're a monster who wants to exploit the working class or something. The result is that, since the vast majority of America ISN'T on the far left, their narrative becomes 'America bad'.

Unbridled9 posted...

I agree. Putin's play wasn't even subtle. I don't think anyone was fooled for a second that he was planning to invade.

But yea. There's a bunch of brainwashed far-leftists out there whose politics begin and end more or less at 'US bad'. Or, more accurately, 'anyone who isn't on the far left is a <insert horrible accusation here>!'. So if you're a free-speech absolutist you are supporting hate speech. Believe in capitalism and you're a monster who wants to exploit the working class or something. The result is that, since the vast majority of America ISN'T on the far left, their narrative becomes 'America bad'.

I think that there's also a lot of leftists who are in complete denial about just how little institutional power and support they have. They want to believe that the countries that act in competition/opposition to the USA MUST be aligned with their own interests, which is... no. No. Putin is a right-wing fuck-nut. Russia is capitalist. China is capitalist. Stop it. Stop lying to yourself. No State is going to save you from the USA boogeyman. Get up off your ass and join a mutual aid group.

Very fine people