Current Events > Functionally Speaking: Whats the difference between...*JoJo Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I understand how Kung Crimson works, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like The World with extra steps >_>

---

time erasure is far stronger, and while kc and the world were both beaten by bullshit asspulls, kc was unbeatable without it

---

They're fairly similar in how they're utilized, but King Crimson basically trades the ability to attack during a time stop with clairvoyance.

The World stops other people and objects from moving without your input.

King Crimson allows you to change your personal fate in a set span of time while keeping the consequences of your original, 'fated' actions before the ability is triggered.

King Crimson is a much bigger reality fuck than The World.

For example Diavolo was able to elude the maid and gather all his gangster evidence simultaneously because he skipped time and fled but the original fate of the photos being collected and set in his possession was preserved. King Crimson lets you have your cake and eat it too.

The biggest weakness of King Crimson is Diavolo's own temperament and refusal to use the stand in a more aggressive way due to his paranoia.

---

diavolo only lost because araki is a hack who relies on deus ex machina nonsense to make the mc win in the end

diavolo lost because doppio is a giga chad and diavolo was the beta male

---

King Crimson also has E-rank durability, which is why The Boss constantly avoids fighting groups. Dio with The World is basically unstoppable without direct counters.

MorganTJ posted...

King Crimson also has E-rank durability, which is why The Boss constantly avoids fighting groups. Dio with The World is basically unstoppable without direct counters.

Yeah but stats don't matter as seen by *that one really strong attacker in part 6* ;-;

---

I remember KC being inconsistent, but I can't recall the specific examples. The general concept works as a time stop+future sight, and also people vaguely recall what was supposed to happen, even though that makes no sense within the confines of the timeskip.

---

Reis posted...

diavolo only lost because araki is a hack who relies on deus ex machina nonsense to make the mc win in the end

tell that to jolyne who had the key to defeating the bad guy with her for awhile and didnt get to use it cause she is the only jojo to lose her final battle and someone else had to finish the bad guy off
using the thing jolyne could have used to defeat him :(

---

imagine thinking that a man of god like pucci isnt the mc

blasphemous

I'd say the standout inconsistency (disregarding all the straight up logic fucks that are basically the point of the stand) is KC making a point to evade Sticky Fingers' punches during erased time and erasing time for tiny moments to predict the path of Mista's bullets, but just going 'fuck it' and phasing through Aerosmith's bullets when Risotto grabbed him.

---

Wouldn't using the thing be too strenuous or impossible or something, considering she already had a thing? I recall some implication of that when the bad man tried to use the good dad thing.

---

It really rubs me the wrong way that the single female protag is also the only one to fail against the big bad.

I mean Joseph technically failed but Kars doesnt know that. >_>

---

Doe posted...

Sticky Fingers

zipperman****

yusiko posted...

the only jojo to lose her final battle

---

high voltage was the best final battle in the series dont @ me

The World feels stronger. The only reason King Crimson even works well is because of Epitaph.

---

AlisLandale posted...

It really rubs me the wrong way that the single female protag is also the only one to fail against the big bad.

I mean Joseph technically failed but Kars doesnt know that. >_>

Johnathan died during his last battle and Dio survived. :/ Hell, he didn't just survive, he stole Johnathan's body.

---

To say that Jolyne failed is to say that her final actions were a waste or thwarted by Pucci. The stringed dolphin and deducing that Pucci can't outrun them by sea is one of the most ingenious conclusions to any situation in the series. It is seriously jaw-dropping-ly clever. She wasn't lucky enough to be blessed with some crazy deus ex machina like Giorno or her father so she worked with what she had.

Weather Report couldn't beat Pucci in the open either and Jolyne didn't have time to exploit Pucci's ability like Emporio did


---

gunplagirl posted...

Johnathan died during his last battle and Dio survived. :/ Hell, he didn't just survive, he stole Johnathan's body.

It was effectively a stalemate. Dio was fucked and got lucky some dudes found his coffin. I think he even admitted that when he was found he was low on energy. >_>

And Johnny at least got to fuck up Valentine. He just fumbled the post-game content. <_<

---

and her fight with the pucci was badass like when she turned her own heart into a mobius strip to avoid his power of turning it inside out

---

It was important for Johnny to lose to Diego to underscore that he didn't learn how to walk alone. Gyro carried, nurtured, and taught him, he took his first steps with Steven and Lucy by his side and once again it was them who helped him regain his footing in a hopeless situation.


---

Lucy probably wouldn't have caught up with Diego if it weren't for his battle with Johnny. If Johnny just solved all the problems with his OP ass stand, it wouldn't really be that interesting.

Also one thing to note about King Crimson, mathematically speaking, it isn't really cutting of "time" per se but more like a universal causality teleport within 5 seconds. If he skipped time, he'd be moving from one point of time to another, which wouldn't really erase everything that happened within that time period, just that he'd be able to influence what does happen within those 5 seconds, which is exactly what Dio's power is. What King Crimson actually does is teleport everything to what would happen 5 seconds later, and Diavolo can make happen what he wants after the teleportation.
Graphically, it's more like making a line an edge case line instead.

It's semantics, but calling it skipping or erasing time is really not it lol

---

who the fuck posted

legendarylemur posted...

It's semantics, but calling it skipping or erasing time is really not it lol

Araki literally describes it as erasing time

---

The World had more potential (Dio's time limit was constantly increasing), and could beat King Crimson in a fight if timed well.

Of course, GER still beats out pretty much everything else in the manga.

---

tri sapphire posted...

The World had more potential (Dio's time limit was constantly increasing), and could beat King Crimson in a fight if timed well.

Of course, GER still beats out pretty much everything else in the manga.

In theory. Thinking about The World Over Heaven, we know that even though that could rewrite reality it still needed to have its fists make contact to do so. I'm sure there's probably some limitation like that for GER. Probably related to its range. I'm not able to look up stats right now though, at work so my internet speeds are iffy for any wikias.

---

the latest arc in Hunter x Hunter actually has a better explanation of King Crimson than part 5 jojo does

---

tri sapphire posted...

The World had more potential (Dio's time limit was constantly increasing), and could beat King Crimson in a fight if timed well.

Of course, GER still beats out pretty much everything else in the manga.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Over the course of like, a few hours, Dio and Jotaro were able to add whole seconds to their time stops. Being able to erase time doesn't mean much if you're able to stop time for longer than can be erased, and diavolo's limit of 2m needed to actually counter-attack over that erased time is going to be a problem when dio can just walk from the other side of the road while time is stopped.

---

It doesn't matter how much DIO's time stop increases since all his actions would only occur inside a single moment of erased time and thus never affect KC

---

In a vacuum, Id say The World is stronger. It can attack during the stopped time, so it leaves the enemy completely open to attack. The only ways to defeat it are to have some sort of very specific ability that directly counters it. KC not only requires Epitaph, but its power also has to contend with the enemy acting as they would normally during the skipped time. If, in the skipped time, Diavolo moves near the enemy, their body will be on guard when the time skip ends and Diavolo will have a tiny window to attack before they regain their senses. This makes him weak to fighting groups as well as people who can react quick enough.

Also, I have a hard time believing Diavolo would beat Dio. Since people act as they normally would during the skipped time, Dio should, in theory, still be able to use time stop and hit Diavolo with a truck or something. It shouldnt matter if it happens during regular time or skipped time because Diavolo wouldnt be able to react to it regardless. That said, Epitaph would see this, so Diavolo would probably just run away. On a side note, even if KC manages to skewer Dio, this would just be a mild inconvenience for Dio.

Kami_no_Kami posted...

On a side note, even if KC manages to skewer Dio, this would just be a mild inconvenience for Dio.

He aimed for the head against Giorno. like son like father

---

Doe posted...

He aimed for the head against Giorno. like son like father

Does that matter at all when his stand can't channel hamon?

---

Reis posted...

diavolo only lost because araki is a hack who relies on deus ex machina nonsense to make the mc win in the end

Only in odd-numbered parts. In even-numbered parts, the villain gets the deus ex machina, but loses anyway. Part 7 actually goes back and forth with like 4 deus ex machinas, though.

---

s0nicfan posted...

Does that matter at all when his stand can't channel hamon?

DIO mentioned when Polnareff sneak attacked him that had Polnareff had the slightest bit more time to move the rapier he could've skewered DIO's brains and disabled him. It's arguably a retcon from when he was split in half in part 1 but it's what he said.

---

Caroniver posted...

Only in odd-numbered parts. In even-numbered parts, the villain gets the deus ex machina, but loses anyway. Part 7 actually goes back and forth with like 4 deus ex machinas, though.

It's not a deus ex machina when spin and the holy corpse are the only vehicles of power in the story

---

Doe posted...

He aimed for the head against Giorno. like son like father

One of the most famous Dio scenes is him skewering his own brain, so even that might not work.

Oh but to be more specific, this argument is kinda pointless because KC didn't hit Giorno's head. He hit Gold Experience


---

s0nicfan posted...

Does that matter at all when his stand can't channel hamon?

Yeah, when he reforms his head, his head is weaker and the next time he punches the head his stand will crack just like Jotaro destroyed The World even though he didn't have hamon either.
---

Doe posted...

It's not a deus ex machina when spin and the holy corpse are the only vehicles of power in the story

Then Bites the Dust and Gold Experience Requiem aren't Deus ex Machinas because we knew the Arrow had power.


---

The idea that a double pierce from the arrow is kinda a DEM because Giorno got GE's hand stuck by Black Sabbath's arrow earlier in the manga and nothing happened.

---

Doe posted...

The idea that a double pierce from the arrow is kinda a DEM because Giorno got GE's hand stuck by Black Sabbath's arrow earlier in the manga and nothing happened.

There's the technicality of it piercing Giorno and his stand at the same time, kinda?

Still bullshit that it didn't work on Diavolo though.

---

I always thought it was due to the Requiem arrow being a special beetle arrow but like half the people insist the beetle is cosmetic and that any arrow can do it.
---

The arrow itself shouldn't matter muchif it's the METAL ALIEN VIRUS LMAO that really counts.

---

I think Vento Aureo just wasn't very thoroughly planned lol. I love it because it was my first manga, it's a cool evolution of Araki's art style, and there's some badass stand ideas, but it reads more like him practicing fight drawing than any kind of intensely thought-out story.

---

GiftedACIII posted...

I always thought it was due to the Requiem arrow being a special beetle arrow but like half the people insist the beetle is cosmetic and that any arrow can do it.

Pretty sure Araki himself said somewhere that the different Arrow appearance doesn't matter, which would make sense, since they're all made from the same comet.
I don't have anything concrete to back that up, though, but there's almost certainly a difference between stabbing someone's hand (Giorno, nothing), fusing into someone's body through the Arrow's own will (Kira, new Ability), and piercing the Stand itself (Silver Chariot, Requiem. Gold Experience, Requiem).

---

Can't say any of them were very well planned. The closest would be part 8, where he's doing the "interconnected relationships and consequences thereof" kinda thing, but even then, he's not great with the finer details.

I wish people like him and Kubo were paired with writers.

---

Steel Ball Run definitely had a lot of thought put in though

---

He tried. It was a few plot points that he managed to avoid contradicting, while stuffing it full of all the weird fight ideas he likes. He was still not great at executing details.

The zombie horse will cure you?! "No Johnny, it's just string for stitches, there's nothing so convenient as magic in this world!" Except it totally and completely fixed his eviscerated leg with no issues for the rest of the series, which is totally magic.

Remember when Valentine could just make square holes in stuff? Araki didn't!

---