Current Events > Is any state solution possible between Israel and Palestine?

(+) Yeah! (+)

At the end of this Genocide there will only be one state left....and lots of new Development in Gaza and the West Bank.

That was the entire purpose of this. Bibi is fulfilling his life's dream.

Gray_Areas posted...

I don't like it, but I think the most likely outcome of this situation is Israel taking the land by force and creating a "one state solution." At best, this one state grants Palestinians full civil rights, but they would likely assimilated into Israeli culture in the not so distant future (thereby "wiping out" the Palestinians). But given Israel's current views and attitudes towards Palestine, I imagine it's much more likely that this one state will end up as more of an Apartheid state where the Palestinians are treated as second class citizens (or worse...)

A non apartheid one state solution doesn't mean "wiping them out" does it?

Murphiroth posted...

No, he's justifying a genocide with "suck it up buttercup"

And why do we have to offer a solution? I don't need to come up with a solution to know that genocide is fucking evil.

I see what he said as just being pragmatic. Some of the responses to what he posted veered into beating up a strawman. As for the solution part, the name of the topic is related to that, hence why I pointed it out.

Doe posted...

The US leveraging the fact it is Israel's main provider of aid, weapons and diplomatic cover to make genocide & sabotage infeasible for them. What we've been saying for months

Biden did allow the UN resolution to go through demanding the ceasefire and has been trying to get Israel not to go through with invading Rafah.

As for the weapons, I was hoping they would go to Ukraine instead who needed them more badly to deal with the Russian invasion. Plus, Israel doesn't even need the weapons if all they want to do is take Rafah anyway. That said, it may have to do with preparing for an external threat and/or deterring other countries or groups from getting involved, such as Hezbollah.

I don't think Hamas will accept anything other than there being 0 Jews in Palestine.

Charged151 posted...

I see what he said as just being pragmatic.

"Suck it up and deal with being genocided" isn't pragmatic, it's evil.

There's a reason Itachi is no longer posting. Though you did come charging in to defend him pretty quickly once he got popped.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Because he didn't say that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Israel doesn't need the weapons to take Rafah, so it is bizarre Israel got weapons ahead of Ukraine. It is possible as I said in the other post though that this is in anticipation of having to deal with other parties in the region.

Charged151 posted...

Because he didn't say that.

The mods disagree.

Charged151 posted...

Because he didn't say that.

Yes, he did, in post 23, which has been rightfully removed but you can see other people quoting it.

Charged151 posted...

Because he didn't say that.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c02f6ff3.jpg

And thus another one bites the dust.

Even the opening sentences of that post are vile. First he agrees that he's saying they need to suck it up, but then the bit about "move on as a people and find the best path for themselves" is just utterly fucking disgusting. Move on as a people and find the best path, just make sure you dodge all the bombs and snipers while you're at it!

ButteryMales posted...

Trump tried to murder Mike Pence with no punishment.

Not defending Trump who hopefully does not become President again and hopefully winds up behind bars.

That said, again, Netanyahu had intelligence that Hamas was going to attack and didn't prevent it. He let a foreign entity kill his people. I don't see him sticking around.

emblem-man posted...

A non apartheid one state solution doesn't mean "wiping them out" does it?

Hopefully not, or at least not through direct violence. I imagine it would be more like how the US took Native American children from their tribes and native cultures and to teach them to "be white." This would eventually remove any sort of Palestinian influence in their upbringing and make them more in line with Israeli thinking and culture.

Here's a quick Wikipedia reference on the boarding schools that were created to assist with the "civilizing" pf young Native Americans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

I would love to see a solution (one, two, or three states) with a fully representative democracy that allows Palestinians to retain their identity while also allowing them full civil rights and active representation in the government of the hypothetical state or states, but I just don't see that as something Israel would be too keen to allow.

I thought he meant suck it up and take whatever deal is offered for a State, because they have no leverage.
Anyway, both parties have no wish for negotiations and both have no reason to trust one another. It's all fucked.

Gray_Areas posted...

Hopefully not, or at least not through direct violence. I imagine it would be more like how the US would take Native American children from their tribes and native cultures and raise them to "be white" thereby eventually removing any sort of Palestinian influence in their upbringing and making them more in line with Israeli thinking and culture.

There are 20% of non Jewish Arabs in Israel. I imagine there's still some discrimination that they should have legal protection from, but that'd ideally be closer to the path of any one state solution. Ideally being the key word...

Murphiroth posted...

Yes, he did, in post 23, which has been rightfully removed but you can see other people quoting it.

He was responding to your post in 21 in a frank sense. I guess that post did cross the line though, considering the mods got rid of it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not sure how to put this, but the topic was about a possible state solution between Israel and Palestine. It (inevitably) referenced the current war going on and got heated. I do want to have an honest conversation for what it is worth. Also...

emblem-man posted...

I thought he meant suck it up and take whatever deal is offered for a State, because they have no leverage.
Anyway, both parties have no wish for negotiations and both have no reason to trust one another. It's all fucked.

Basically this.

ButteryMales posted...

The mods disagree.

I guess they do. Considering...

ellis123 posted...

And thus another one bites the dust.

He is no longer an active user.

Charged151 posted...

Not defending Trump who hopefully does not become President again and hopefully winds up behind bars.

That said, again, Netanyahu had intelligence that Hamas was going to attack and didn't prevent it. He let a foreign entity kill his people. I don't see him sticking around.

Trump knew Jan.6thers wanted to kill Pence and Democrats. Morality doesn't apply to right wingers.

emblem-man posted...

There are 20% of non Jewish Arabs in Israel. I imagine there's still some discrimination that they should have legal protection from, but that'd ideally be closer to the path of any one state solution. Ideally being the key word...

Oh, sure, this idea is definitely better than literally wiping the Palestinians out and destroying Palestine as a whole, but it would still have a pretty clear agenda. Considering one of the options being thrown out there is literally genocide, some kind of "forced assimilation" would undoubtedly be better, but that doesn't mean it isn't still bad.

Like I said, I think this is probably the "best case scenario" given the fact that we live in the real world and the solution, whatever it ends up being, won't be perfect. I just don't think Israel is going to allow Palestine to continue to exist forever. The only question really being how they go about "getting rid" of Palestine and its people.

ButteryMales posted...

Trump knew Jan.6thers wanted to kill Pence and Democrats. Morality doesn't apply to right wingers.

I get what you are saying, really, but this doesn't compare to allowing a foreign terrorist group to kill more than 1000 of your citizens. I don't think Netanyahu will be able to get out of this.

Just to add. That region isn't the first to experience genocide in their area in the last 10 years. We have another case of it.

https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/mass-violence-and-genocide-islamic-statedaesh

The good news is that 150k people returned to the area and rebuild. But they got absorbed into Iraq. The people survived but under a new banner.

Is this the future for Gaza but different group of violence? I don't know. Who faced repercussions for the last one? Or other ongoing ones?

Charged151 posted...

I get what you are saying, really, but this doesn't compare to allowing a foreign terrorist group to kill more than 1000 of your citizens. I don't think Netanyahu will be able to get out of this.

Trump was aligned with domestic terrorists trying to kill the VP. Hamas is more of a domestic terrorist group than a foreign one.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Who controls the one state in your version?

There is no ethnic group that controls the state because there is no more Apartheid. That's the whole point.

Garioshi posted...

There is no ethnic group that controls the state because there is no more Apartheid. That's the whole point.

How will they peacefully accept this solution? Will they live to forgive their animosity? How will this change the balance of power in the middle east? Who will ally themselves to this united front?

ButteryMales posted...

Trump was aligned with domestic terrorists trying to kill the VP. Hamas is more of a domestic terrorist group than a foreign one.

That's an interesting point actually. If you think Israel controls Gaza Hamas is domestic but if not you consider it foreign... Food for thought.

The only solution that has any chance of working is one state with the Israelis as citizens and the Palestinians as nationals, pretty similarly to how the US does it. So the Palestinians get full rights except the right to vote (they can still vote for their local mayors and whatnot though, again like US nationals). That way the Israelis' biggest one-state fear, that they will become minority citizens and control of Israel won't be in their hands, will be gone. And of course I don't need to explain how much the Palestinians will benefit from that.

Then, a century down the line, after the people living forget the old hatreds, that can be changed too.

So... apartheid?

Yes, Netanyahu ran on preventing a 2 state solution.

The West Bank basically had controlled open borders with Israel in the 1990s, Palestinians would cross the border every day to go to work in Israel, but that ended when Palestinians kept suicide bombing Israeli buses and restaurants in the second intifada which was basically caused by Ariel Sharon being a warmongering troll. The giant wall was built and the borders were closed. So Israel will never go back on that.

Palestine should be free but Israel wants control over it because they want a buffer zone against invasion from the east which imperiled them in the 20th century wars, even though Jordan today is one of the less hostile neighbors towards Israel. Also Israel refuses to remove the illegal settlements, which would have to be abandoned if Palestine was free. They want to play the messianic long game and colonize Palestine with Jews while the Palestinian state withers. And the current weird non-occupation occupation means that Israel can easily and send troops into Palestine without it being technically an invasion.

In any case if Palestine was made completely independent tomorrow and the settlements were all eradicated, Hamas would still attack Israel with rockets and terrorism. But expecting Palestinians to stop resisting in order to receive a hypothetical independence that Israel doesn't want to give them is too much to ask when Israel keeps intentionally provoking Palestinians even during peaceful periods, especially with the settlements.