Board 8 > Rumorzone: FF7 Rebirth selling half as well as Remake

(+) Yeah! (+)

The only RPG I've ever played that would not have benefited from some of its content being removed is Chronic Trigger.

Not like it's near my favorite RPG or anything, but it has no fat. I think it's a huge part of it's legacy.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Chronic Trigger.

I think I had that game on my Ti-83+ back in the day

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The only RPG I've ever played that would not have benefited from some of its content being removed is Chronic Trigger.

Undertale

...which is the most popular JRPG of the past decade...hmm

give me all fat tbh

If you don't do any of the optional content, Rebirth really shouldn't take that long.

Granted, the optional content is a huge part of why Rebirth is great.

SaveEstelle posted...

Anecdotally, a lot of people have commented on my FF7 Rebirth press event hoodie in public (neat) but at least a third have told me they are waiting for all three games to be out before they start, ha.

My friend told me this. Of course, he's also waiting for the PC ports, so it'll be even longer.

Bitto posted...

If you don't do any of the optional content, Rebirth really shouldn't take that long.

Granted, the optional content is a huge part of why Rebirth is great.

It is fun speeding through Hard Mode and skipping most stuff that doesn't give you SP manuscripts.

the thing is playing all of these games back to back would probably sour you on the experience

they're designed purposefully to be distinct games. particularly with rebirth, you're really supposed to immerse yourself in it and not speed run it I think.

KamikazePotato posted...

Undertale

...which is the most popular JRPG of the past decade...hmm

Was also gonna say that, but the Alphys section could have been like 10 or 15 minutes shorter lol.

colliding posted...

the thing is playing all of these games back to back would probably sour you on the experience

they're designed purposefully to be distinct games. particularly with rebirth, you're really supposed to immerse yourself in it and not speed run it I think.

Yeah, I've tried telling 'em maybe don't do that. It's hard to get through without firsthand context just how particularly these are designed. Especially Rebirth, yeah.

It'd be like trying to marathon the Mass Effect trilogy

I mean you can but you might get burned out in the process

You could still take breaks. They may just not want to play one and then wait several more years for the next one to come out.

SaveEstelle posted...

Anecdotally, a lot of people have commented on my FF7 Rebirth press event hoodie in public (neat) but at least a third have told me they are waiting for all three games to be out before they start, ha.

For me it's because I want to know I'll actually have a way of finishing the trilogy before I start. Right now I could play Remake on PS4 or Steam Deck, but I'm not buying a PS5. Even if Rebirth works well enough on Deck (sounds doubtful?), Part 3 certainly won't. So I need to wait for Part 3 to come out and see if there will even be a way for me to play it (Deck 2? Switch 2 trilogy ports?). Only then will I start on Remake.

mnk posted...

For me it's because I want to know I'll actually have a way of finishing the trilogy before I start. Right now I could play Remake on PS4 or Steam Deck, but I'm not buying a PS5. Even if Rebirth works well enough on Deck (sounds doubtful?), Part 3 certainly won't. So I need to wait for Part 3 to come out and see if there will even be a way for me to play it (Deck 2? Switch 2 trilogy ports?). Only then will I start on Remake.

Makes sense to me, yeah. And when you factor in how unpopular the PS5 is in Japan beyond its apparent role as a F2P gaming machine (which is so weird to me but whatever) there's a lot for Rebirth to stand up against even before we get into all the other reasons it's not selling like hotcakes.

I said this to someone rather in-the-know on Era, but like, Rebirth will be fine in the end. In his own words, "too big to fail" applies here. Aggressive promotions, ports wherever possible, the whole nine yards. It'll almost certainly never get where they had hoped, but it'll get a lot closer over time, even with the "weaker tail than Remake" it's currently suffering.

Too much cash is riding on Part 3 not being an actual disaster, which is possible right now if the numbers don't pick up somewhat, IMO. Just as importantly perhaps, too many resources are already being poured into Part 3! This is a big, highly capable, team that will mostly be tied up on this project for another several years.

Leonhart4 posted...

It'd be like trying to marathon the Mass Effect trilogy

I mean you can but you might get burned out in the process

Like trying to marathon the Mass Effect trilogy but the second and third games are as long as the whole ME trilogy combined :p

SaveEstelle posted...

It'll almost certainly never get where they had hoped, but it'll get a lot closer over time, even with the "weaker tail than Remake" it's currently suffering.

Remake's tail was awful! However, the real advantage of a series like this is getting people more interested in the earlier games when the new ones come out. I'd bet Remake's had a huge spike in sales since Rebirth's release, and the same will happen for Remake/Rebirth when R3 comes out.

MacArrowny posted...

Like trying to marathon the Mass Effect trilogy but the second and third games are as long as the whole ME trilogy combined :p

I guess? I dunno, I don't have a sense of how long the ME games are if you do everything. I haven't played them recently enough to have a sense of them.

I will say about the PS5 install base in Japan: I do suspect that a lot of those really were bought for sale elsewhere because the hardware/software sales disconnect is pretty big over there, even accounting for digital.

Also yeah Mac is right, the tail here is weaker than Remake but that was already unusually frontloaded in a very frontloaded series. These are games that sell half their lifetime units week one, possibly more this time. To be totally frank its not unreasonable to say that for Rebirth, five million sales long term would be a result.

I will say though, if they had done a straight remake I dont think that does nearly as well. All depends on how well IX Remake does I guess.

MacArrowny posted...

Like trying to marathon the Mass Effect trilogy but the second and third games are as long as the whole ME trilogy combined :p

Remake's tail was awful! However, the real advantage of a series like this is getting people more interested in the earlier games when the new ones come out. I'd bet Remake's had a huge spike in sales since Rebirth's release, and the same will happen for Remake/Rebirth when R3 comes out.

Remakes tail is bad for sure. Hitting seven million several years later and all. But Rebirths has supposedly been worse so far!

Since it was mentioned earlier, I don't think XVI had much if any impact of Rebirth's sales, regardless of what you think of it. This isn't a Zesteria situation where some well was poisoned (which wouldn't make sense anyways since XVI is a good game that was well received amongst the majority).

Frankly, I don't even consider them the same thing at this point. I think, and I wouldn't be surprised if some folks are Square think, that FF7 is it's own franchise distinct from FF at this point.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

XVI is a good game that was well received amongst the majority

I really don't know if this is true! I feel its reception overall has been pretty similar to XV's, for whatever reason.

LightningStrikes posted...

I will say though, if they had done a straight remake I dont think that does nearly as well. All depends on how well IX Remake does I guess.

It's an interesting question. Something as faithful as RE4make or RE2make would've done good numbers too, I think.

XVI is a good game, but I do think it's also disappointing in that it really did not grow the fanbase or help the brand.

Also, I still feel like PS5's are pretty rare. This is anecdotal evidence and highly limited but when I talk to my students about games, people who actually have PS5's are few and far between. Everyone under 25 grew up with having their own gaming PC's and laptops.

Maybe Sony helped foot the bill for dev costs, and that's why exclusivity made sense, but even I have to admit it's hurt them

I wouldnt say XVIs reception has been terrific, yeah. It isnt a disaster. But it isnt, like spectacular by any stretch.

I think Rebirth is the only modern FF (not counting a couple of XIV expansions) with a truly strong reception. And, like anything, its hardly universal - but you can kind of feel an energy that isnt often there.

XVI is like I dont know. Certainly, there are a fair number of people who love it. I like it a lot! But theres been a lot of backlash, too.

Its virtually impossible to actually calculate all this. Thats just my interpretation of the situation.

Noooo way is that true. In fact, if any game is a well poisoner, it's XV. I can't even put into words how much I stopped caring about FF as a brand after that monstrosity came out. Thank God I started XIV on a whim.

colliding posted...

XVI is a good game, but I do think it's also disappointing in that it really did not grow the fanbase or help the brand.

Also, I still feel like PS5's are pretty rare. This is anecdotal evidence and highly limited but when I talk to my students about games, people who actually have PS5's are few and far between. Everyone under 25 grew up with having their own gaming PC's and laptops.

Maybe Sony helped foot the bill for dev costs, and that's why exclusivity made sense, but even I have to admit it's hurt them

Oh, consoles are absolutely going somewhat out of style as younger people begin to constitute a greater market percentage. The idea of being tethered to specifically-branded machines - outside of Nintendos, anyway - is just kind of foreign.

Even the Big N will surely feel it eventually.

FFXV has monster sales numbers for a game with a lukewarm reception at best

Truly the Final Fantasy for all people

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Noooo way is that true. In fact, if any game is a well poisoner, it's XV. I can't even put into words how much I stopped caring about FF as a brand after that monstrosity came out. Thank God I started XIV on a whim.

Yeah, but like, this is you. I feel you, I do, but I just dont see any remotely universal love for XVI, I really dont!

Let me clarify that I certainly dont think XV is any less divisive. Likely more so, for sure!

That's what happens when you drop a game down to $20 or less in under a year, release 3 (or is it 4??) different rereleases, and then regularly put it in sale for single digits, before inevitably just giving it away for free on most platforms.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

That's what happens when you drop a game down to $20 or less in under a year, release 3 (or is it 4??) different rereleases, and then regularly put it in sale for single digits, before inevitably just giving it away for free on most platforms.

Yeah, Square was bullish, for sure. And the numbers back that up. But the numbers are still impressive in their own right, you know? You can do the same thing with FFVII Remake, and it isnt hitting the same. A lot went right for FFXV, regardless of whether it did any discernible damage to the IP in the long run.

FF15 sold well out the gate. There was actual hype for that game.

Was probably Squares last chance to matter and they fumbled it.

What would XVI even be getting backlash for?

redrocket posted...

What would XVI even be getting backlash for?

Many people don't want Final Fantasy to be an action game

Its been heading down that path for years now??

redrocket posted...

Its been heading down that path for years now??

And now that it's practically all the way there people aren't happy about it

They shouldn't have shunned XIII so much then. This what they have wrought!

To Star Rail with them!

I for one am looking forward to playing the XVI Leviathan DLC next weekend

redrocket posted...

Its been heading down that path for years now??

Which is why it sold like 1/5 as well as the turn based Baldur's Gate 3

MacArrowny posted...

I really don't know if this is true! I feel its reception overall has been pretty similar to XV's, for whatever reason.

It's an interesting question. Something as faithful as RE4make or RE2make would've done good numbers too, I think.

Ehh, while FFXVI might be damningly described as decent, XV is plain incompetent.

Playing XV it is sometimes unbelievable that this is the final molasses filled product they released after multiple feedback based beta tests. The very first Carbuncle Demo unironically played better than the final product. Who goes out of their way to design am action RPG that's intentionally loose and unresponsive? Animation priority is not meant to be that literal.

And also, you know.....everything else about the game.

It says it all that it could end up selling so well by the end and they still considered it enough of a failure to cancel the last few DLC packs. Can't even imagine how much money thet lost in production with the staff changes and internal reboots.

Final Fantasy had been heading down the action route for about 25 years before XVI, even when it was still nominally turn-based it was getting more and more actionised. And it had been straight action RPGs for a decade. It is mind blowing to me that this is just now something people are vocal about online, its both not important and also like, what took you so long?

I do agree that XV was the big well poisoner despite getting a slightly better reception than the XIII garbo, because that was the game that got a HUGE marketing push to new players and failed to bring them in. It had a broader reach and turned more people off, as well as being as said basically the last chance. It would have been a great game if theyd finished it (unlike XIII which was just conceptually bad), but they didnt finish it.

XVI is a good game. Flawed but better than the last more than a decade of FF before it and about on a par with Remake. It just came too late.

XIV is basically turnbased with the global cooldown, those turns are just extremely short! If only more people would get over their prejudice.

LightningStrikes posted...

Final Fantasy had been heading down the action route for about 25 years before XVI, even when it was still nominally turn-based it was getting more and more actionised. And it had been straight action RPGs for a decade before then. It is mind blowing to me that this is just now something people are vocal about online, its both not important and also like, what took you so long?

Just a simple fact that FF would be selling better if it were still turn-based. The turn-based mobile FFs are bigger than 15 and 16 for a reason.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

XIV is basically turnbased with the global cooldown, those turns are just extremely short!

just like ATB

MacArrowny posted...

Just a simple fact that FF would be selling better if it were still turn-based. The turn-based mobile FFs are bigger than 15 and 16 for a reason.

Because theyre on mobile, which I know you know!

As an action game enjoyer the action combat in FFXVI is awful. It's flashy but there isn't much actual depth and the enemies were completely brain dead from what I remember.

Also I'd take a bad FF7R mini game over literally any of the side quests in FFXVI.

Yeah it's pretty poor, even compared to something like God of War (or FromSoft's games), never mind the likes of Bayonetta or Devil May Cry. There isn't much encouragement to engage with what (limited) depth it offers either: in the vast majority of fights you can just spam the same routine of cooldowns over and over again to win efficiently (ok, someone's going to say "you can do this in God of War too!" - and I mean, you could, but most players won't because there's clear inefficiencies to doing so; choosing between range/melee or quick-but-weak/slow-but-strong techniques etc. is natural in different scenarios). I think the only set of moves I found had any real dynamism were Garuda's.

I didn't hate FFXVI. But it produced no reaction in me at all (other than maybe a bit of astonishment at how they wrote Jill), I just went through the motions, beat it, and moved on. I can't really imagine many thinking about it constantly like I did with the classic FFs and Rebirth.

MacArrowny posted...

The turn-based mobile FFs are bigger than 15 and 16 for a reason.

Until they're not and Square Enix decides to shut them down.

https://twitter.com/DissidiaFFOO/status/1763051621708411252

https://twitter.com/FFRK_Official/status/1575656402408083456

Is that the one Rikku never made it to?

I thought FF16 had pretty great gameplay -- it's main problem being the normal difficulty is way too easy

I'd agree with the zero depth/too easy complaints on FFXVI. Also the side quests in XVI compared to Rebirth are night and day. XVI is a good game but it's paper-thin and a throwback to a kind of action game that just isn't popular anymore (Level based, flashy combos, challenge is secondary to technical precision)

I would still take it over Rebirth! The highs there are definitely bigger than XVI's, but it's too rocky for me. I was always interested in what was going on in XVI's sidequests even when the quests themselves weren't good, meanwhile I feel I would have come out of the other end liking Rebirth more if I had skipped a bunch of sidequest cutscenes....and maybe a chunk of the regular ones, too.

Basically, XVI's sidequests are structurally more boring than Rebirth's, without a doubt, but I preferred the stories in them more for the most part.

When Rebirth is going for humor though, I think it lands super hard, the game can be a riot. XVI has none of that, and isn't particularly funny the few times it tries to be
Which is a shame, because XIV is often HILARIOUS, but none of that shows up in XVI with mostly the Heavensward writing team. I'm not asking for Hildebrand level stuff here!