Current Events > American Psycho: written by a gay man, directed by a feminist to mock toxic masc

(+) Yeah! (+)

The novel was written by a gay man, and the screenplay was created and directed by feminist women in order to mock toxic masculinity and the shallow, vicious aspects of postmodern capitalism.

And yet, the very people that the author and director/writer mocks are the ones that love the film the most.

Also: Fight Club

I know there are some really obtuse dudes walking among us, but how could even the densest viewer not pick up the satire?

darkace77450 posted...

I know there are some really obtuse dudes walking among us, but how could even the densest viewer not pick up the satire?

Pretty much all of the MAGAs thought Green Day's American Idiot album was on their side until recently. Still some of them do.

"let's see Paul Allen's media illiteracy"

darkace77450 posted...

I know there are some really obtuse dudes walking among us, but how could even the densest viewer not pick up the satire?

Most money bros and MAGAites are as dense as you can imagine.

Dakimakura posted...

Pretty much all of the MAGAs thought Green Day's American Idiot album was on their side until recently. Still some of them do.

Or those idiots that think "Rage Against the Machine" went "woke".

Like, guys, what do you think "The Machine" part is?

Dakimakura posted...

Pretty much all of the MAGAs thought Green Day's American Idiot album was on their side until recently. Still some of them do.

That's true. Trump taking the stage to Born in the USA and Fortunate Son and his supporters dancing to Killing In the Name should have clued me in that there are some people with their heads so far up their asses they can't see the light of day.

darkace77450 posted...

I know there are some really obtuse dudes walking among us, but how could even the densest viewer not pick up the satire?

Probably Poe's law. I will admit I didn't know it was satire. I just knew the film's plot might not be real due to the way the film ended.

BlueTigerLion posted...

Probably Poe's law. I will admit I didn't know it was satire.

What exactly did you think the movie was doing when Bateman was discussing business card typefonts and cardstocks with his bros?

Isn't the author of that book disliked now because he's not woke, or something?

lydiaquayle posted...

And yet, the very people that the author and director/writer mocks are the ones that love the film the most

Citation needed

You would be surprised how many people walked away from American History X more racist. Or maybe you wouldn't these days.

Dakimakura posted...

Pretty much all of the MAGAs thought Green Day's American Idiot album was on their side until recently. Still some of them do.

Or "We're Not Gonna Take it" by Twitsted Sister

It is also true that directorial intent does not always translate to what the audience takes from it. Step away from American Psycho and take any number of other movies. You can view films through a number of different lenses. I guess thats one of the cool things about art, what you meant isn't always what a piece is taken for.

Watching Babylon 5 and I see the Centauri/Narn as Israel and Palestine -- some may not take it that way, and it may not have been intended to be that way

lydiaquayle posted...

What exactly did you think the movie was doing when Bateman was discussing business card typefonts and cardstocks with his bros?

A comedy. That whole Hip To Be Square scene along with that card scene was hilarious.

Plenty of Trumpers beat off to the first half of American History X.

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Yea. I don't watch every movie looking for double meanings. I saw it probably 15+ years ago at this point. I just thought it was a funny movie that ended with it probably being a dream or not real. I wasn't really thinking of it as a movie commenting on 80s society. I was more thinking about if the things in the plot actually happened or not.

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Its like how people use Film Bro as an insult and then they say Film Bros typically like (lists pretty much every popular and critically acclaimed movie ever), hah! What brutish ruffians!

bret easton ellis is bisexual, not gay

https://bisexuality.fandom.com/wiki/Bret_Easton_Ellis

Robot2600 posted...

bret easton ellis is bisexual, not gay

https://bisexuality.fandom.com/wiki/Bret_Easton_Ellis

It's not that cut and dry with him.

When asked in an interview in 2002 whether he was gay, Ellis explained that he did not identify as gay or straight, but was comfortable being thought of as homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual and enjoyed playing with his persona, identifying variously as gay, straight, and bisexual to different people over the years.

TakashiMifune85 posted...

Also: Fight Club

One of my friends started getting legitimately angry when I tried to argue with him that the book and movie was NOT in favor of anarchy/nihilism.

BlueTigerLion posted...

A comedy. That whole Hip To Be Square scene along with that card scene was hilarious.

Some people may give you shit for this but I can see that being a legitimate takeaway.

lydiaquayle posted...

And yet, the very people that the author and director/writer mocks are the ones that love the film the most.

Sociopaths identifying with other sociopaths isn't all that mystifying.

We saw that with The Boys as well until the creators had it made excruciatingly clear that you're not supposed to be rooting for Homelander.

It's satire and black comedy.

lydiaquayle posted...

The novel was written by a gay man, and the screenplay was created and directed by feminist women in order to mock toxic masculinity and the shallow, vicious aspects of postmodern capitalism.

And yet, the very people that the author and director/writer mocks are the ones that love the film the most.

those types are red flags. I like the movie for what she was trying to say not because I want to be Patrick Bateman

Cemith posted...

Or those idiots that think "Rage Against the Machine" went "woke".

Like, guys, what do you think "The Machine" part is?

Reminds me of one of the greatest responses in the history of social media:

https://twitter.com/tmorello/status/1269369519580930048?t=8G12k4TFqw8qYs8mTu9SGQ&s=19

darkace77450 posted...

I know there are some really obtuse dudes walking among us, but how could even the densest viewer not pick up the satire?

Donald Trump would routinely play Fortunate Son for his campaign events.

That's how. Lol

Kradek posted...

We saw that with The Boys as well until the creators had it made excruciatingly clear that you're not supposed to be rooting for Homelander.

We just saw it again with Helldivers 2.

this topic reminded me that i need to watch this movie. lol

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You severely underestimate how dumb people are. If you can post messages that are generally grammatically correct and avoid being banned youre in the top 75%.

People are fucking stupid.

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

You severely underestimate how dumb people are. If you can post messages that are generally grammatically correct and avoid being banned youre in the top 75%.

Do you mean top 25%? Being in the top 75% of anything isn't special or noteworthy.

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/65a6a27d.jpg

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

You severely underestimate how dumb people are. If you can post messages that are generally grammatically correct and avoid being banned youre in the top 75%.

People are fucking stupid.

The "lol everyone's dumb but me" attitude prevents people from working against the ones actually causing problems, because everything wrong with society is written off as "well that's cuz people are stupid." Like, if Americans are stupid and supposedly voted for Trump because they're stupid, no need to address the Electoral College or voter suppression or conservative indoctrination, right?

A feminist wrote Andy Hardy

KI_Simpson posted...

The "lol everyone's dumb but me" attitude prevents people from working against the ones actually causing problems, because everything wrong with society is written off as "well that's cuz people are stupid." Like, if Americans are stupid and supposedly voted for Trump because they're stupid, no need to address the Electoral College or voter suppression or conservative indoctrination, right?

They can both be true at the same time. Stupid/short-sighted people AND the electoral college won Trump the election in 2016.

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

this topic reminded me that i need to watch this movie. lol

this topic reminded me to return some video tapes

KI_Simpson posted...

The "lol everyone's dumb but me" attitude prevents people from working against the ones actually causing problems, because everything wrong with society is written off as "well that's cuz people are stupid." Like, if Americans are stupid and supposedly voted for Trump because they're stupid, no need to address the Electoral College or voter suppression or conservative indoctrination, right?

But we know Americans are stupid.

That has nothing to do with whether the EC or conservative ideology are also bullshit.

TakashiMifune85 posted...

Also: Fight Club

Also: Scarface

Kradek posted...

They can both be true at the same time. Stupid/short-sighted people AND the electoral college won Trump the election in 2016.

No, they can't both be true, Trump lost by millions of votes (and who knows how many he would have lost by without voter suppression) but a tyrannical system appointed him anyway. Insisting on putting equal focus on "he shouldn't have gotten any votes so really it happened because Americans are stupid!" is what Republicans want because it lets them keep their advantages.

hockeybabe89 posted...

But we know Americans are stupid.

That has nothing to do with whether the EC or conservative ideology are also bullshit.

Some people doing stupid things doesn't make humanity as a whole stupid, and if you strictly focus it on a nationality that's nationalism.

KI_Simpson posted...

No, they can't both be true, Trump lost by millions of votes (and who knows how many he would have lost by without voter suppression) but a tyrannical system appointed him anyway.

Yes, because he won the electoral college. And he won the electoral college because stupid/short-sighted people in battleground/purple states either saw some value in him, thought Clinton was despicable enough to vote against, or decided it wasn't worth voting at all.

That's how they're both true at the same time.

The majority of the U.S. voting-age populace does not vote and is politically apathetic. I consider that to be stupid and short-sighted, it's also separate from the EC being a degenerate system designed by slaveholders because while that system sucks, if those non-voters would get the fuck over themselves then it would become less relevant as voters in battleground/purple states would be more engaged and thus mitigate Republican fuckery.

Its pure postmodern absurdity. You would have to be incredibly stupid not to grasp it, but here we are i guess

Kradek posted...

Yes, because he won the electoral college. And he won the electoral college because stupid/short-sighted people in battleground/purple states either saw some value in him, thought Clinton was despicable enough to vote against, or decided it wasn't worth voting at all.

That's how they're both true at the same time.

The majority of the U.S. voting-age populace does not vote and is politically apathetic. I consider that to be stupid and short-sighted, it's also separate from the EC being a degenerate system designed by slaveholders because while that system sucks, if those non-voters would get the fuck over themselves then it would become less relevant as voters in battleground/purple states would be more engaged and thus mitigate Republican fuckery.

And how many of those people you wrote off as shortsighted and stupid would have voted if they weren't being suppressed either directly or indirectly (not having time off work/out of their day to vote)? You are saying exactly what Republicans want you to in regards to people who don't vote. Obviously some of them are just stupid, but you erased everyone who isn't.

Getting into a bad emotional state from discussing this, for the record I fucking hate the United States itself and have since 2016, "Americans did this to themselves!" is a trigger from when I desperately wanted to leave and had no path to. Blanket statements like that leave Americans who are victims of the government with no way out and more psychological torment. I can't continue the discussion.

KI_Simpson posted...

And how many of those people you wrote off as shortsighted and stupid would have voted if they weren't being suppressed either directly or indirectly (not having time off work/out of their day to vote)? You are saying exactly what Republicans want you to in regards to people who don't vote. Obviously some of them are just stupid, but you erased everyone who isn't.

So you're saying the inverse, that literally everybody who doesn't vote is because of suppression?

Nah man, that's just not reality. I've met far too many non-voters who could vote and simply don't because they either have no interest in politics or have a negative view of being politically engaged.

As a Texan I agree that living in a state that engages in voter suppression will over time weaken voter participation because people give up, however also as a Texan who consistently votes blue and only wins local elections with my vote, I understand that the only way to eventually flip a state is from voters like me never giving up and over time enough of us exist to make real change. Trump only won TX in 2016 by around 2m votes and I remember calculating back in the day that there was about 8m eligible voter-aged people in TX who could have voted and didn't. Was some of them from voter suppression? Yes, Paxton boasted in 2020 about how Trump only won the state because of him interfering with Houston's elections, however realistically it's still feasible for 2m votes to go Dem out of those 8m if people who have given up would reengage.

I've also seen far too many Dem-likely voters who vote 1-2 election cycles who give up because the system isn't radically changed as a result of their voting and thus permanently give up on the system and usually talk shit about voting in general, ultimately depressing voter turnout for anybody who values what they have to say.

Also, there is a ton of evidence that the vast majority of the U.S. populace is heavily ignorant when it comes to politics. Don't think you can blame that on voter suppression. I've literally heard real people blame Joe Biden for the loss of Roe v Wade just because he was POTUS at the time.