Current Events > Pope says Ukraine should have courage of the white flag and negotiate surrender

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pope should have the courage to stfu

I think I heard the Russian Orthodox leader call the invasion if Ukraine a holy crusade

I mean it sucks that Russia won't stop, but Putin knows he stirred up too much shit and killed too many to call it quits now. Especially since he has that whole mentality of wanting to be remembered as a powerful, unyielding Russian savior.

they need MORE aid, not less.

China's nowhere as stupid as Russia. China knows actual war is expensive. Trump doesn't lick Winnie the Pooh's boots like he does Putin's either, so Trump would probably start a losing trade war again.

I wonder what would happen if Putin suffered an "accident"?

All that nuclear Saber rattling, sometimes a drone button gets pressed by mistake.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

I say we surrender Vatican City to Russia.

Then we could stampede cattle through it

or maybe he is just saying what nobody wants to hear?

what are the chances of Ukraine taking back their territories at this point? EU support is divided, US support is unsure. Even with the support of the last two years, Ukraine seems to only ever get what they need to survive but not to win. I don't see that changing.

I get the feeling that western leaders prefer to see the conflict freeze because they don't want to deal with the consequences of one side winning it.

The only realistic ending to the conflict is a cease fire, Russia takes what they have and the rest of the world needs to wake the fuck up and realize that the good guys don't always win if they stick their thumbs up their asses.

Russia conquering Ukraine just means war with Russia in other countries later.

I get the feeling that western leaders prefer to see the conflict freeze

Yes that would be preferable to seeing the conflict expand to other European countries.

Russia literally cannot exapnd the conflict to other European countries, they're having more than enough trouble as it is.

Wanting peace is a good thing, but should never reward evil. Russia taking any victory out of this just encourages them to do it again.

Also figuring the pope isnt saying Russia should surrender or end hostilities is because Russia is Catholic leaning I assume?

Russia is Eastern Orthodox. About 1 thousand years ago, the Catholic Church had a schism. And basically eastern Europe left the catholic church and made their own.

So how much did Putin pay the Pope?

1940s: "We will NEVER surrender to tyrants!"

2020s: "Hey, maybe you guys should surrender to tyrants."

Nobody wants to hear it because it's a dumb fuck thing to say. You don't negotiate with someone whose objective is your extermination.

Russia's objective is not the "extermination" of Ukraine though... That's another war.

Well, the extermination of the Ukraine as a sovereign country... I guess. But then what's new. Not like say the USA has never done something similar, etc.

I'm not saying yes, Ukraine should surrender, no question about it. I'm asking, is there really no limit to the price of freedom? How many more need to die? How much deeper in misery does a country need to go down? It's a question, no matter how uncomfortable.

I'm asking, is there really no limit to the price of freedom? How many more need to die?

Russia's objective is not the "extermination"

No matter how reasonable you people try to make it sound, you always make it sound like surrendering will somehow lessen the deaths and misery of the Ukrainian people. They are resisting as hard as they are precisely because they know that's not true.

Russia has promised to kill Ukraine as a nation and identity, we've seen how they rape, torture, and murder occupied cities/towns that have been reclaimed, they've taken over a nuclear power plant and have handled its security very stupidly and intentionally irresponsibly (which is a threat to pretty much all of Western Europe due to nuclear fallout), and we know that they've stolen a plethora of citizens and sent them into Russia proper for who knows what.

I truly don't understand how anybody could be foolish enough to think appeasing Putin here would somehow end/mitigate the misery of the Ukrainian people. If anything you'd exacerbate it because he knows he has cart blanche to do whatever he wants with the country.

The world already tried appeasing him when he invaded and stole Crimea, thinking it would prevent him wanting more and yet here we are.

The Ukrainian people are fighting because they know they need to, they know what surrender to Russia means, the rest of the world just needs to support their self-defense.

Russia's objective is not the "extermination" of Ukraine though... That's another war.

Well, the extermination of the Ukraine as a sovereign country... I guess. But then what's new. Not like say the USA has never done something similar, etc.

I'm not saying yes, Ukraine should surrender, no question about it. I'm asking, is there really no limit to the price of freedom? How many more need to die? How much deeper in misery does a country need to go down? It's a question, no matter how uncomfortable.

just accept genocidal colonization from a country that once deliberately manufactured a famine that killed over 4 million of your people bro, it's not the end of the world

At some point it seems to me like it's just the people in power wanting to keep it. No matter how horrible life under Russia would be, and believe me I'm sure it would be, I think it still beats death. It wouldn't be the end of Ukraine forever. The USSR fell once already. Russia's grip will slip. Putin will die one day. Russia can be pressured in other ways in the meantime. You can't win them all. Just look at the rest of the world for proof...

Like I said, I'm not saying fighting is wrong. But Putin seems willing to keep on no matter the cost not just to Ukraine but to Russia themselves and the rest of the world as well. How much more?

War is a business. This one has particularly good marketing.

At some point it seems to me like it's just the people in power wanting to keep it. No matter how horrible life under Russia would be, and believe me I'm sure it would be, I think it still beats death.