Current Events > Can someone explain to me the "sweet baby" controversy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Woke-go-Broke calculus is the same for video games as movies:

• If a movie or game has "woke" elements and under performs it's 100% due to the woke and no other reason.

• If a movie or game has "woke" elements and does well, it's because the [globalists, woke mob, or Jews] brainwashed the American sheeple into accepting forced diversity!

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I never said it was.

so if they're hired to make casts diverse/scripts "woke"
what literal problem could you have with a dev making that decision to hire them beyond bigotry? lol
you can choose not to buy whatever you want
but implying that a product is bad simply because it has black/queer people in it... like
you have to realize how you look here lol

GeminiDeus posted...

Okay, in the video, she says, "If you're a creative working in AAA, which I did for many, many years, put this stuff up to your higher-ups and if they don't see the value and what you're asking for when you ask for consultants, when you ask for research, go have a coffee with your marketing team and just terrify them, with the possibility of what's going to happen if they don't give you what you want." then near the end of the video she says, "There's like a genuine value that you can impress upon them both ethically and financially. You can say this is important."

Wait, this is what people are flipping about? They're interpreting that as "threaten them" ???? How???

GeminiDeus posted...

Okay, in the video, she says, "If you're a creative working in AAA, which I did for many, many years, put this stuff up to your higher-ups and if they don't see the value and what you're asking for when you ask for consultants, when you ask for research, go have a coffee with your marketing team and just terrify them, with the possibility of what's going to happen if they don't give you what you want." then near the end of the video she says, "There's like a genuine value that you can impress upon them both ethically and financially. You can say this is important."

The implication being they'll find themselves in a social media controversy or negative criticism if they unwittingly wrote something insensitive or ignorant yeah?

Is that not their purpose? I thought that would be obvious.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I've already said earlier that everything up until the brigading was standard fare and not really worth a controversy. Like I said, I don't play bad games, generally.

Alan Wake 2 is not a bad game. GoW2 is not a bad game. Spider-Man 2 is not a bad game.

You seem incredibly confident that SBI makes games bad but can't provide examples for some strange reason.

GeminiDeus posted...

Okay, in the video, she says, "If you're a creative working in AAA, which I did for many, many years, put this stuff up to your higher-ups and if they don't see the value and what you're asking for when you ask for consultants, when you ask for research, go have a coffee with your marketing team and just terrify them, with the possibility of what's going to happen if they don't give you what you want." then near the end of the video she says, "There's like a genuine value that you can impress upon them both ethically and financially. You can say this is important."

So this is what these dinks have dubbed as her "threatening" game devs.

GeminiDeus posted...

Okay, in the video, she says, "If you're a creative working in AAA, which I did for many, many years, put this stuff up to your higher-ups and if they don't see the value and what you're asking for when you ask for consultants, when you ask for research, go have a coffee with your marketing team and just terrify them, with the possibility of what's going to happen if they don't give you what you want." then near the end of the video she says, "There's like a genuine value that you can impress upon them both ethically and financially. You can say this is important."

Gamers are so weak and illiterate that they view this as a "threat" lmao.

ArsGoetia posted...

so if they're hired to make casts diverse/scripts "woke"
what literal problem could you have with a dev making that decision to hire them beyond bigotry? lol
you can choose not to buy whatever you want
but implying that a product is bad simply because it has black/queer people in it... like
you have to realize how you look here lol

You're making shit up. I never said any of those things, myself. I've said that the existence of the group is perfectly fine, and if those people want to avoid games that the company worked on, that is perfectly reasonable and well within their rights.

I avoid games that are bad by watching trailers. If the trailers scream "this game isn't for you" then I don't buy it. Simple.

My issue, and the main catalyst for the larger controversy, is the fact that the employees of the consultant company are actively trying to encourage their followers to brigade and harass the group (especially its creator) just because they dislike them.

ArsGoetia posted...

so if they're hired to make casts diverse/scripts "woke"
what literal problem could you have with a dev making that decision to hire them beyond bigotry? lol
you can choose not to buy whatever you want
but implying that a product is bad simply because it has black/queer people in it... like
you have to realize how you look here lol

The thing is, many of them see white supremacy and fascism as the force of good besieged by the forces of chaos trying to destroy some mythical ideal of western culture, masculinity, etc...

They may not even be consciously aware that this is the paradigm they are defending after the 200th quartering or Tim Pool segment about how putting a queer sidekick in the latest AAA trash sequel is an insidious plot to bring down "the west" and force you to date only transwomen (while Alex Jones asks for your webcam feed).

Murphiroth posted...

You seem incredibly confident that SBI makes games bad

I haven't played any of those games. When speaking about this situation, keep in mind that I don't really have any personal stake in it. I'm speaking with regard to the people who are members of the group and want to avoid the games for whatever reason they want to avoid them.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I haven't played any of those games. When speaking about this situation, keep in mind that I don't really have any personal stake in it. I'm speaking with regard to the people who are members of the group and want to avoid the games for whatever reason they want to avoid them.

I see... er...sea...
...lions are cool animals, right?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I haven't played any of those games. When speaking about this situation, keep in mind that I don't really have any personal stake in it. I'm speaking with regard to the people who are members of the group and want to avoid the games for whatever reason they want to avoid them.

Cool, then why was this your first post in the topic, said with confidence?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's a consulting firm that makes games worse

Fascinating how you're now backpedaling on this because you've realized you have no evidence.

Torgo posted...

I see... er...sea...
...lions are cool animals, right?

Clearly you don't know what sealioning is.

Torgo posted...

I see... er...sea...
...lions are cool animals, right?

They're alright, I guess. Do try to stay on subject, though. You're distracting from the discussion when you make unrelated posts like this.

Murphiroth posted...

Fascinating how you're now backpedaling on this because you've realized you have no evidence.

Can you find for me an example of them making a game better?

I think people are definitely losing the plot on the whole making things worse argument. We have no quantifiable way of knowing what exactly they bring to a game, but I would not consider them good faith actors. Theres a fine line between offering a service that people want to use and making yourself a service that people need to use, and Im pretty sure they are the latter. Thats not to say games being more diverse is bad, but monetizing it is tricky balance that they dont seem to have captured.

It's hilarious how often this is the same shit over and over again. Just culture war shit based on what some idiot YouTuber told them that they otherwise wouldn't have even known or noticed.

This reminds me of the time chuds for angry over Brie Larson saying she doesn't care what white critics think about a movie that the chuds didn't even watch because the movie wasn't for them.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Can you find for me an example of them making a game better?

Would it make sense for me to only play games that Sweet Baby make because I'm assuming their contributions make game better?

Am I supposed to take notice on who consults on the things I play and watch?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Can you find for me an example of them making a game better?

Holy deflection, Gobbles!

I've never claimed they make games better.

You've made the claim that they make games worse, and have failed to provide evidence, and are now deflecting to try to avoid acknowledging that.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Would it make sense for me to only play games that Sweet Baby make because I'm assuming their contributions make game better?

why wouldnt it
this is all just another stupid fucking gamergate proxy war
buy what you like
don't buy what you dont
why do you give a shit what someone else buys or doesnt buy
why do you need a support group for not buying a fuckin video game or a hashtag to punish those that dont?
just shut the fuck up, you're both awful

Murphiroth posted...

You've made the claim that they make games worse, and have failed to provide evidence, and are now deflecting to try to avoid acknowledging that.

I only know what I can see, and so far a pretty large number of people have joined that Steam group which specifically aims to warn people about the presence of the consulting company.

I feel like that's a decent summary of the controversy. Would you feel better if I were to rephrase that as "a large group of gamers thinks they make games worse" instead?

ArsGoetia posted...

why wouldnt it
this is all just another stupid fucking gamergate proxy war
buy what you like
don't buy what you dont
why do you give a shit what someone else buys or doesnt buy
why do you need a support group for not buying a fuckin video game or a hashtag to punish those that dont?
just shut the fuck up, you're both awful

Literally saying what Gob was arguing in the first place lmao

I typed LinkedIn on Google and the CEO of Sweet Baby Inc is right up there now.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/42b6a119.png

ArsGoetia posted...

why wouldnt it
this is all just another stupid fucking gamergate proxy war
buy what you like
don't buy what you dont
why do you give a shit what someone else buys or doesnt buy
why do you need a support group for not buying a fuckin video game or a hashtag to punish those that dont?
just shut the fuck up, you're both awful

Where did I said I needed any of those things.

I don't give a shit what someone buys or doesn't buy. I'm responding to what people say on a message board.

From my perspective if a studio wants to use a consultancy firm it's completely up to them. I think it's kinda obvious why there's a specific focus on this consultancy firm though.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I only know what I can see, and so far a pretty large number of people have joined that Steam group which specifically aims to warn people about the presence of the consulting company.

I feel like that's a decent summary of the controversy. Would you feel better if I were to rephrase that as "a large group of gamers thinks they make games worse" instead?

Keep deflecting, Gobbles, it's what you're best at!

Punished_Blinx posted...

Where did I said I needed any of those things.

I don't give a shit what someone buys or doesn't buy. I'm responding to what people say on a message board.

if you couldnt parse that the ambiguous "you" in my post was a generalized pronoun and not a direct address, then idk maybe you are part of the audience that needs a 3rd party to proofread their games for public consumption

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Can you find for me an example of them making a game better?

Wow, you really spiked yourself pretty hard here. When you say "It's a consulting firm that makes games worse", but give the above as a response when asked how they actually make games worse, it's a super bad look for you.

ItsNotA2Mer posted...

it's a super bad look for you.

Oh no how will I ever recover

ArsGoetia posted...

if you couldnt parse that the ambiguous "you" in my post was a generalized pronoun and not a direct address, then idk maybe you are part of the audience that needs a 3rd party to proofread their games for public consumption

It it's because you quoted my post directly and ended it with "you're both awful" but whatever.

https://kotaku.com/sweet-baby-inc-consulting-games-alan-wake-2-dei-1851312428

The conversation around Sweet Baby Inc. has ignited a fundamentally misinformed, GamerGate-esque firestorm. Its employees have faced rampant harassment as a direct result. Industry figures have had to deny allegations that SBI comes in and completely changes their games. I spoke with several employees of Sweet Baby Inc. to learn what the company actually does and how the misunderstanding of its role in the industry highlights a far broader problem.

On March 5, I managed to spend an hour or so in the Sweet Baby Inc. Detected Discord before I was booted from the space, likely because I identified myself as a Kotaku journalist. In it, members shared posts referencing Feminist Frequency founder Anita Sarkeesian, Marcus Aurelius quotes, and pictures of idealized female bodies in games. One image showed several pictures of the protagonist Eve from Korean developer ShiftUps upcoming action game Stellar Blade, juxtaposed against female characters from Overwatch, Forspoken, and Life is Strange. Embrace tradition. Reject modernity is emblazoned on the collage.

"Almost 2K members, there are already a bunch of infiltrated [sic] people here screenshotting everything, sadlyso just keep it cool brothers. We cant let this server or the Steam group get taken down. Thats all I ask, keep it cool, read a post from March 4, which was shared again on March 5. Several people in the Discord expressed concerns about glowies, a term coined by members of the far right for those suspected of being federal law enforcement officials or their informants attempting to infiltrate their online spaces and set them up for legal consequences.

Two members that spoke with me via Discord DM shared similar sentiments about why they believe the Steam page and subsequent Discord are important: so they can identify games that were developed with support from Sweet Baby Inc. and make an informed decision when purchasing them. Sweet Baby Inc. is a symptom of other ideological worldviews that I believe have taken hold of the Western world, media, and gaming as a whole, a 31-year-old member of the Discord told me. He also insisted, without providing evidence, that Sweet Baby Inc. adds race and identity group quotas to everything they are involved with.

Though these kinds of social media posts argue that companies like Sweet Baby Inc. somehow force game studios to include diverse characters and storylines, the reality is vastly different. Sweet Baby Inc. is a narrative design company, meaning most of its work is focused on writing stories and dialoguethey are not a DEI consultancy firm. That means they ensure a games plot points make logical sense and are satisfying to players, and that characters speak and behave in consistent ways. Narrative designers may also provide a final round of polish, like a Hollywood script doctor. For example, the team worked on Suicide Squad long after the story was writtenand even then they joined just to write in-game ads, audio logs, and NPC barks, CEO Kim Belair tells me over video call.

Sweet Baby is, at its core, a narrative development company. That means anything from script writing to narrative design to narrative direction, to story reviews. One of the things that we do offer is cultural consultations or authenticity consultations. For us, that generally means that we might be asked to look at a story if theres a character in it who is marginalized in certain way, and [the studio] wants us to connect them with a consultant who can bring a little bit of authenticityBut the perspective is never that were coming in and injecting diversityFor the most part, its the reverse. Its that a company has created a character and they want to make that character more representative and more interesting.

Hilarious that Kotaku has provided a better summary than anyone else in this topic has managed.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Oh no how will I ever recover

You won't, there's no recovering from that.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Oh no how will I ever recover

By continuing to sealion and go to bat for racist shitheels I imagine.

omg so they don't even do the diversity stuff themselves? They just proof-read scripts? How can Gamers be this unintelligent.

Torgo posted...

The Woke-go-Broke calculus is the same for video games as movies:

* If a movie or game has "woke" elements and under performs it's 100% due to the woke and no other reason.

* If a movie or game has "woke" elements and does well, it's because the [globalists, woke mob, or Jews] brainwashed the American sheeple into accepting forced diversity!

Well, either that, or the "anti-woke" dipshits conveniently forget they ever bitched and moaned about it, and instead try to co-opt it (as an example of this, there's The Super Mario Bros. Movie; before release, they complained about Peach not being the damsel in distress and wearing a motorcycle suit in one part of the trailer; after it became a mega-hit, they started claiming that it's totally not woke at all, and that it totally supports them, even though their attitude toward women in general is very Bowser-esque, and Bowser is shown to be pretty clearly in the wrong).

FurryPhilosifer posted...

omg so they don't even do the diversity stuff themselves? They just proof-read scripts? How can Gamers be this unintelligent.

Misinformation is part of the design with stuff like this unfortunately.

It doesn't have to be accurate. It just has to make people angry and provide an easy target to get angry at.

ItsNotA2Mer posted...

You won't, there's no recovering from that.

Murphiroth posted...

By continuing to sealion and go to bat for racist shitheels I imagine.

If only you two understood the depths of my indifference toward your opinions about me.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

If only you two understood the depths of my indifference toward your opinions about me.

So indifferent that you just had to tell us how indifferent you are.

Murphiroth posted...

So indifferent that you just had to tell us how indifferent you are.

I just thought you ought to know before you waste any more time. Really, it's an act of compassion toward a fellow human.

Just another bogeyman for far-right chuds to get upset over

Murphiroth posted...

So indifferent that you just had to tell us how indifferent you are.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3ccfb019.jpg

Because they're brain washed sleep looking to get their outrage fix. They sheepishly listen to whatever their CHUD Streamer tells them too. If you disagree you're woke and can burn. it's infected every part of the Internet. You can't have any real rational discussions on any video without them getting involved. They repost off-model pictures of Western video game women and shopped images of Eastern. If you say otherwise they downvote you to oblivion or just report you.

Like right on que; everyday someone would post on /r/asmongold the same topic of West v East but, slightly reword the title. The same people would run to start screaming about wokeness in the gaming industry..

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I just thought you ought to know before you waste any more time. Really, it's an act of compassion toward a fellow human.

https://x.com/dril/status/134787490526658561?s=20

Sure chuds are swinging at windmills again

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Looks like a presentation by the Sweet Baby CEO emerged, where she is telling her employees to go to game developers and basically say that unless they hire Sweet Baby, they will get cancelled for being racist/sexist/homophobic/etc.

Did they try to reduce Tifa?

Punished_Blinx posted...

https://kotaku.com/sweet-baby-inc-consulting-games-alan-wake-2-dei-1851312428

Hilarious that Kotaku has provided a better summary than anyone else in this topic has managed.

Theyre also making complete fools of themselves on Twitter, but what else is new.

https://twitter.com/alyssa_merc/status/1765465735822725277

I have literally only seen right wing shitbrains complain about it so if that tells you anything

blackrider76 posted...

Theyre also making complete fools of themselves on Twitter, but what else is new.

https://twitter.com/alyssa_merc/status/1765465735822725277

Fuckin yikes!

Honestly I believe the claim that all they do is narrative consulting but the games they've been associated with really are some of the crappiest crap from the past couple years. My assumption is that if a dev or publisher feel like they need to consult such a firm to make their game's writing coherent then they probably are just not very good at their job in general and that's why most of the stuff associated with this firm is monkey stool

Torgo posted...

Isn't that Asmongolb guy some kind of right wing lunatic?

Asmon is somebody who has politics that goes all over the place from left to right wing and he doesn't seem to follow politics close enough to actually be informed. One of the most dangerous kinds of voters to be honest.

bbq sauce

Someone made a Steam Group that listed all the games they are involved with. It got mild attention and never really made waves until employees from SBI lost their shit and started trying to force a harassment campaign against the creator of that group and get his accounts banned for... listing the games they had a hand in and it blew up.

Now everyone is seeing what a grift they are and calling them out openly. Also imagine linking a Kotaku article unironically which is full of SBI fluffing and ass kissing.