Current Events > The Cry to Vote 'uncommitted'

(+) Yeah! (+)

streamofthesky posted...

Biden keeps DOMINATING these primaries.

Because it's NOT a real primary. It's a coronation. Biden's the incumbent, didn't debate, used the DNC to outspend the other candidates by tens of millions and the media slandered anyone running against him as helping Trump.

This shit was decided in 2020.

Ricemills posted...

How do you not understand my post?
It would be bad the uncommitted vote decide to still not vote for Biden even in the general election.

Like i said before (can't remember which topic), the primary result will be a warning for the potential lost vote in general.

I understood your post very clearly.
You want Biden to reconsider his policy even though he's getting election win percentages that any sane person would label a mandate.
Then threatening that if they don't get their way, these protest voters will try to cost him the election out of spite. Which flies in the face of "we'll unify for the general" claims that are clearly false.

Why do you think 20% (it's actually fallen to 19% now... in one state... most states Biden's cruising to high 80's to low 90's % of the votes) of the Democratic base, which itself is maybe 1/2 of all Dem voters in the general (probably less), so let's say... 10% of his voters, pretending MN represents the entire country (it doesn't) and being as generous as absolutely fucking possible....

Why do you think those privileged 10% get to demand a position from him against the will of the other 90%?

streamofthesky posted...

Why do you think those privileged 10% get to demand a position from him against the will of the other 90%?

Then let me ask you, what's the 90% has to lose to gain the approval of the 10%?

Are you saying that Biden will lose support if he stopped funding the genocide? Is the 90% voting him because he did that?

CountCorvinus posted...

Because it's NOT a real primary. It's a coronation. Biden's the incumbent, didn't debate, used the DNC to outspend the other candidates by tens of millions and the media slandered anyone running against him as helping Trump.

This shit was decided in 2020.

Well yeah of course the incumbent and standing president is going to have the full support of the party.

streamofthesky posted...

I understood your post very clearly.
You want Biden to reconsider his policy even though he's getting election win percentages that any sane person would label a mandate.
Then threatening that if they don't get their way, these protest voters will try to cost him the election out of spite. Which flies in the face of "we'll unify for the general" claims that are clearly false.

Why do you think 20% (it's actually fallen to 19% now... in one state... most states Biden's cruising to high 80's to low 90's % of the votes) of the Democratic base, which itself is maybe 1/2 of all Dem voters in the general (probably less), so let's say... 10% of his voters, pretending MN represents the entire country (it doesn't) and being as generous as absolutely fucking possible....

Why do you think those privileged 10% get to demand a position from him against the will of the other 90%?

It's not the 20% who decided to vote in a rigged election you should be worried about.

https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/

Ricemills posted...

Then let me ask you, what's the 90% has to lose to gain the approval of the 10%?

Are you saying that Biden will lose support if he stopped funding the genocide? Is the 90% voting him because he did that?

Just because you call it a genocide doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. People were saying for years before this that just controlling the borders into Gaza was genocide by Israel (conveniently ignoring that Egypt did the same thing for the same security concern reasons), even though Oct. 7th showed exactly why those borders need to be secured (and clearly weren't secured enough).

The pro-Gaza side made it clear: If you oppose Biden's Israel policy, come out and vote uncommitted. Frankly considering any primary has a contingent of uncommitted votes, it's disingenuous to even try to credit all of every "uncommitted" vote as someone protesting his policies. Like in Michigan where 11% voted uncommitted in 2012. But we pretend they all are. But now you want to claim not all of the votes for Biden were showing approval for his policies. You can't have it both ways. Your side was very vocal about what these primary votes meant, even had The Squad signal boosting to vote against Biden. So yes, the 70+% voting Biden are, with their votes, saying they don't care or they approve.

streamofthesky posted...

Just because you call it a genocide doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. People were saying for years before this that just controlling the borders into Gaza was genocide by Israel (conveniently ignoring that Egypt did the same thing for the same security concern reasons), even though Oct. 7th showed exactly why those borders need to be secured (and clearly weren't secured enough).

Yikes.

CountCorvinus posted...

rigged election

k Trump

streamofthesky posted...

Just because you call it a genocide doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. People were saying for years before this that just controlling the borders into Gaza was genocide by Israel (conveniently ignoring that Egypt did the same thing for the same security concern reasons), even though Oct. 7th showed exactly why those borders need to be secured (and clearly weren't secured enough).

Oh great, a genocide denier.
Why did i waste my time with this shit

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

No, I don't. Also, it's not the "vast majority". It's all. No incumbent president has ever participated in a primary debate.

Deutschenlied posted...

k Trump

Blue MAGA

Ricemills posted...

Oh great, a genocide denier.
Why did i waste my time with this shit

Ditto.

Ricemills posted...

And how is it voting a person that actively funding a genocide will help Palestinian?
Why are you so vehemently against the stoppage of the genocide?

I already posted many times, all that need to happen is just Biden to condemn Israel's actions and stop his support.
But you keep dodging around and refuse that Biden should change his policy.

I'm not against it, but the situation we find ourselves in is that he will still be the best option we have even if he does nothing to help Palestine. In that scenario, your options are help Americans or help no one. There would be no third option.

We are stuck with a catch 22. We need to criticize our elected officials and hold them accountable, but we also can't afford to not vote and let the worst choice win. You aren't being practical. You're at the switch of the trolley tracks and choosing to leave it up to fate rather than protect as many people as possible. Saving none because you can't save all is not a sensible statement. It's not logical and you can't even call it the proper emotional response. For the millionth time, Biden is not the one primarily being punished if you let the GOP win. It's innocent Americans. You live in America and you're saying "If we can't save Palestine from Israel, then innocent Americans deserve to die."

We aren't voting for Biden. We're voting against Trump. If that has to mean Biden wins, oh well. We have to be adults and realize voting isn't always about who you like or who you want. It can be about who you hate the least, about which choice will do the least harm rather than which one will do the most good. A vote doesn't automatically imply support.

Deutschenlied posted...

We need to criticize our elected officials and hold them accountable,

When people do that, you accuse them of being Trump supporters.

We are all gonna die if we don't vote against Trump. Our demise is guaranteed if the GOP wins. And this is the fucking election where we can no longer stomach our government's immoral handling of foreign conflicts and our questionable allies? We just don't have the will to survive any longer? The GOP has a loaded gun pressed against the temples of millions of innocent citizens and promises to pull the trigger if they win, and we're going "But ewww the Democrats won't end 80 years of bipartisan Israel support, so is it worth it?" Stop worrying about this party bullshit and vote for whichever option hurts the least people.

Deutschenlied posted...

hockeybabe89

I just realised that's your main.
You made a bad faith topic about how "US should eradicate Israel to the ground to appease pro Palestinian", and got warned.

Can't take any of your posts seriously with your inane ramblings.

CountCorvinus posted...

When people do that, you accuse them of being Trump supporters.

No I don't. God damn it to I hate when people deliberately misunderstand my words.

Executing every LGBTQ person in the country and stripping women of their humanity is not the proper way to hold polticians accountable. Why should I die because Biden sucks?

Ricemills posted...

I just realised that's your main.
You made a bad faith topic about how "US should eradicate Israel to the ground to appease pro Palestinian", and got warned.

Can't take any of your posts seriously with your inane ramblings.

Joe Biden is going to continue to support Israel. Your choice in November is whether or not women and minorites in America deserve to have human rights in spite of that, whether or not you want the ability to have future elections. Stop viewing it as a vote for Biden. Is the other choice winning better or worse overall? That is all that matters. The candidates and parties involved are largely irrelevant.

Anteaterking posted...

If Biden, in an attempt to get more moderate support, decided to side with the Republicans and help push through anti-trans legislation, would you put yourself on the pyre for the sake of all the other Americans?

Nope. How is America continuing to blindly support Israel akin to a president actively killing his own innocent citizens and swearing it's for the good for everyone else? You're making it like it's hypocritical for a regular person to view what happens at home differently than what happens abroad. Was it wrong for people to fight for gay marriage in America while our military was busy bombing the Middle East and funding bad actors? America becoming Nazi Germany would cause a different societal reaction than our State Department making backroom deals with foreign dictatorships. That's just how things go.

It factually is a genocide. Its been a genocide for the past seven and a half decades. What else would you call the systematic containment, assault/murder, and encroachment of an ethnicity? Look at the death and territory statistics. It is, and has been from the beginning, the erasure of the Palestinian people. Israeli politicians have admitted that Hamas provides them an excuse to do what they always planned to.

I reject the notion that "Biden enables Israel" and "Trump wins the election" are the only two options. I've seen no convincing evidence whatsoever that getting Biden to pivot on Gaza is going to hurt his election chances. This is a claim that has to substantiated before any hypothetical of a Trump reelection can be used as an argument. Especially when it's used to stop people from protesting against atrocities.

Fact of the matter is: polls show that Biden's handling of Gaza so far is met with disapproval of his own base and independents. He's selling weapons to a country that half of his own voters believe is currently committing genocide! If anything it's his current stance that is turning away voters, not the protest.

The administration CAN come with a harsher condemnation of Israel's action, it CAN stop vetoing UN resolutions and it CAN place conditions on further arms sales and financial aid. Not doing so is a choice, not some inescapable natural law. In fact the tone HAS changed in the last 2 weeks: both Biden and Harris have now publicly called for a ceasefire (albeit a temporary one), and now even submitted a draft UN resolution. The argument that Biden can not, will not, change his stance under any circumstance is bogus.

Not only is upholding international human rights is the morally right thing to do(!), it may actually win back protest voters as well. Instead, we have people like Pelosi accusing ceasefire-protesters of being Putin plants. We see Dems insisting that genocide is inevitable and pointless to prevent, branding protestors as undercover Trumpers, or even threatening them with deportations if they don't fall in line. If the assertion is that protesting the Gaza war is hurting Biden's election chances, I'm very curious to know how the hell this sort of rhetoric is convincing voters who already feel disenfranchised over this issue.

Hornezz posted...

The administration CAN come with a harsher condemnation of Israel's action, it CAN stop vetoing UN resolutions and it CAN place conditions on further arms sales and financial aid. Not doing so is a choice, not some inescapable natural law. In fact the tone HAS changed in the last 2 weeks: both Biden and Harris have now publicly called for a ceasefire (albeit a temporary one), and now even submitted a draft UN resolution. The argument that Biden can not, will not, change his stance under any circumstance is bogus.

Exactly. This is literally the point of voting uncommitted. To pressure him. He should see that 20% number and immediately think "Well shit, even if I'll probably get a good percentage of that back come election time what if I don't? How do I get them back?" And Biden/Harris' recent public comments seem like at the very least the voices are being heard.

But no, according to some very normal genocide denying people here, we should all just accept what's happening and not even try to change our countries help in funding a genocide.

NoMeLx22x posted...

Exactly. This is literally the point of voting uncommitted. To pressure him. He should see that 20% number and immediately think "Well shit, even if I'll probably get a good percentage of that back come election time what if I don't? How do I get them back?" And Biden/Harris' recent public comments seem like at the very least the voices are being heard.

The problem with those on this logic is the opposite is also true when it comes to "not committed voters."

In fact, given how supposedly passionate they are, the "not committed" voters have a lot more to lose in not voting. These are the same delusional people baffled woman's rights are going away but justify their big brained idea that staying home in one or more of the elections in 2016, 2018, 2020 was a valid and smart option.... despite supposedly devestated woman's rights are under attack. But again, this is the same camp that also tends to argue, "same thing both sides" in their justification why they mind as well stay home and think elections are won on ideals and ideals alone. Staying home will show them!

You people want to have it both ways in your argument that it's only the primary, but in the same breath threatening the general election too. While ignoring some are committed to not vote in the general election too, but again argue you only mean the primary. Essentially repeating the 2016 election all over again. Essentially not understanding politics even in a simple work environment unfortunately doesn't center on the most ideal methods.

I know you may think idealistically that this commitment is the big threat you think it is, but its more of a threat to your own supposed ideals. Not voting isn't going to magically help Palestinians, and in fact if Trump wins make the Palestinians situation far worse. Not better.

I'm not saying Biden is doing the best job, but some of yall are hopped on social media highs and political polls (that have repeatedly been unreliable lately) that a sitting US president can safely dump supporting Israel and still win a presidential election in the United States.

LightningThief posted...

These are the same delusional people baffled woman's rights are going away but justify their big brained idea that staying home in one or more of the elections in 2016, 2018, 2020 was a valid and smart option

I suppose the real big brain move is to full-throatedly support genocide and then become indignant when people don't vote for you, as if you are owed votes.

1337toothbrush posted...

I suppose the real big brain move is to full-throatedly support genocide and then become indignant when people don't vote for you, as if you are owed votes.

I'm ignoring your pro genocide argument as it's just not true.

The real discussion here is Biden who may not be doing the best job to push Israel from committing genocide, vs Trump who 100% verbally and actively do everything in his power to support Israel's actions and has 0 intentions to help Palestinians.

As for your big brained argument, like I said last post. I know you may think idealistically that this commitment is the big threat you think it is, but its more of a threat to your own supposed ideals. Not voting isn't going to magically help Palestinians, and in fact if Trump wins make the Palestinians situation far worse. Not better.

This is 2016/2018 all over again with people like you.

I'm not saying Biden is doing the best job, but some of yall are hopped on social media highs and political polls (that have repeatedly been unreliable lately) that a sitting US president can safely dump supporting Israel and still win a presidential election in the United States.

Edit: I just noticed who I was replying to and your known history.

Still dont get people that want the orange idiot to win and send US troops to assist Israel. Also send US troops to assist Russia. Probably even send US troops to assist China when they start their war with Taiwan.

1337toothbrush posted...

I suppose the real big brain move is to full-throatedly support genocide and then become indignant when people don't vote for you, as if you are owed votes.

I dont give a shit what people vote in Primaries. However, now that its quite clear Biden is the nominee, are you going to vote for him when it matters?

LightningThief posted...

I'm ignoring your pro genocide argument as it's just not true.

Your side ignores a lot.
Biden is supporting genocide. He's bypassed congress multiple times to sell Israel weapons.

LightHawKnight posted...

Still dont get people that want the orange idiot to win and send US troops to assist Israel. Also send US troops to assist Russia. Probably even send US troops to assist China when they start their war with Taiwan.

What evidence do you have that Biden pivoting on Israel would actually make him lose the election?

Because before you can point at what Trump would do with Palestine, Taiwan, women's rights, LGBT rights, etc. etc. -- you first have show why Biden's unconditional support for Israel is even necessary for him to win. Because that's what this entire argument hinges on.

Hornezz posted...

What evidence do you have that Biden pivoting on Israel would actually make him lose the election?

Because before you can point at what Trump would do with Palestine, Taiwan, women's rights, LGBT rights, etc. etc. -- you first have show why Biden's unconditional support for Israel is even necessary for him to win. Because that's what this entire argument hinges on.

It's actually the opposite.

https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/

Biden really is digging his own grave

Hornezz posted...

What evidence do you have that Biden pivoting on Israel would actually make him lose the election?

Because before you can point at what Trump would do with Palestine, Taiwan, women's rights, LGBT rights, etc. etc. -- you first have show why Biden's unconditional support for Israel is even necessary for him to win. Because that's what this entire argument hinges on.

What evidence is needed? Every single president for the past few decades would have supported Israel. It is literally how US foreign policy has worked for decades and will work for the foreseeable future. Its weird how people dont understand how our government has been working.

LightHawKnight: "Genocide is the norm. Vote Biden!"

CountCorvinus posted...

LightHawKnight: "Genocide is the norm. Vote Biden!"

Apparently people think the orange idiot wouldnt support Israel. How braindead do they have to be?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/79c6bb64.jpg

Dudes not gonna lose Minnesota but this is pretty good numbers for uncommitted seeing as that campaign started maybe a week ago at most.

LightHawKnight posted...

What evidence is needed? Every single president for the past few decades would have supported Israel. It is literally how US foreign policy has worked for decades and will work for the foreseeable future. Its weird how people dont understand how our government has been working.

Bingo. A lot of them don't even know how laws are passed. They just know what their favorite tiktok or youtuber told them.

You have some of these people literally thinking the PotUS can make Israel do something beyond pressure or war.

LightHawKnight posted...

Every single president for the past few decades would have supported Israel. It is literally how US foreign policy has worked for decades and will work for the foreseeable future.

Your statement here is plain uninformed: in the 80's Reagan held back the delivery of F-16 jets to Israel as leverage to deescalate violence in Lebanon. There is direct precedent for this.

Second: 'things have been this way, therefore they should stay this way' is a weirdly conservative argument against change that doesn't hold any real value. I'm sure there were people arguing the same against Civil Rights, or women's voting rights.

Prove that Biden taking a stronger stance to ensure a ceasefire would actually make him lose the election to Trump. If you can't do that, the whole 'but what would Trump do' argument has no merit.

Hornezz posted...

Your statement here is plain uninformed: in the 80's Reagan held back the delivery of F-16 jets to Israel as leverage to deescalate violence in Lebanon. There is direct precedent for this.

Second: 'things have been this way, therefore they should stay this way' is a weirdly conservative argument against change that doesn't hold any real value. I'm sure there were people arguing the same against Civil Rights, or women's voting rights.

Prove that Biden taking a stronger stance to ensure a ceasefire would actually make him lose the election to Trump. If you can't do that, the whole 'but what would Trump do' argument has no merit.

Great reply. Wonder if they'll have a response or just the usual "you don't know politics" dismissal

CountCorvinus posted...

Your side ignores a lot.
Biden is supporting genocide. He's bypassed congress multiple times to sell Israel weapons.

But is he worse than the GOP? That will be the only question that matters come November.

These fucking people have no other comment other than "hey if you don't vote for our guy that is supporting a genocide, we're gonna get a guy that's going to support a genocide even harder" as if any normal person would hear that and think "oh okay that seems logical"

It's like they don't realize that perhaps the actual moral and ethical thing to do would be maybe to try to push for someone who's not going to do genocide at all, or at the very least make the guy that's currently backing the genocide stop.

NoMeLx22x posted...

These fucking people have no other comment other than "hey if you don't vote for our guy that is supporting a genocide, we're gonna get a guy that's going to support a genocide even harder" as if any normal person would hear that and think "oh okay that seems logical"

It's like they don't realize that perhaps the actual moral and ethical thing to do would be maybe to try to push for someone who's not going to do genocide at all, or at the very least make the guy that's currently backing the genocide stop.

And we should want that to stop, beg for it to stop, but Biden will still be better than Trump, regardless of what happens by November with regard to America's support of Israel despite their long history of genociding Palestinians. It will be both moral and logical to select any Democrat over the GOP. If we all tolerated our government's immoral foreign dealings for this long, we can do it for the most important election of our lives.

I don't deny the genocide and I wish America would completely abandon Israel as an ally, but I need to be practical about the election. There are other issues on the ballot, many more lives at stake if the GOP wins. I'm pissed that we constantly have to vote for lesser evil, but we can't risk the greater evil winning. Would you rather have rights or teach politicians a lesson

NoMeLx22x posted...

These fucking people have no other comment other than "hey if you don't vote for our guy that is supporting a genocide, we're gonna get a guy that's going to support a genocide even harder" as if any normal person would hear that and think "oh okay that seems logical"

It's like they don't realize that perhaps the actual moral and ethical thing to do would be maybe to try to push for someone who's not going to do genocide at all, or at the very least make the guy that's currently backing the genocide stop.

At some point it's time to change your diaper and act like an adult. I can wish I was a multi millionaire all I want and cry and whine for it, but ultimately my real choices in life are to change career paths or alter my budgeting.

You whined and cried and congrats - some guy won American Samoa. The vast vast majority of the American people who enjoy democracy support the incumbent.

From this point forward your choices are a guy who wants to moderate Israel while still supporting them, or you can let a fascist who wants to bomb Gaza even harder win because you, a spoiled privileged first worlder, actually thought that the incumbent would actually lose a primary.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Dudes not gonna lose Minnesota but this is pretty good numbers for uncommitted seeing as that campaign started maybe a week ago at most.

Where's Marianne?

Deutschenlied posted...

But is he worse than the GOP? That will be the only question that matters come November.

How many times do I have to tell you? I'm voting for Biden in November. I live in a swing state. I can't afford a protest vote. I'm going to look out for my own interests.

It's not me you have to worry about, nor is it the republican voters. It's the people who don't vote that you need to listen to. Threatening them doesn't work. "But the other guy is worse" is not the winning campaign strategy you think it is.

NoMeLx22x posted...

These fucking people have no other comment other than "hey if you don't vote for our guy that is supporting a genocide, we're gonna get a guy that's going to support a genocide even harder" as if any normal person would hear that and think "oh okay that seems logical"

It's like they don't realize that perhaps the actual moral and ethical thing to do would be maybe to try to push for someone who's not going to do genocide at all, or at the very least make the guy that's currently backing the genocide stop.

But realistically these are the only 2 options this election. Youre getting either Trump or Biden. Bidens stance on Israel is awful, and Trumps is worse alongside his wishes to create a GOP theocracy.

Biden is undoubtably the nominee at this point. You can not like Biden or his Israel stance, but not voting for him or not at all is no longer an option.

SunburnCostanza posted...

At some point it's time to change your diaper and act like an adult. I can wish I was a multi millionaire all I want and cry and whine for it, but ultimately my real choices in life are to change career paths or alter my budgeting.

You whined and cried and congrats - some guy won American Samoa. The vast vast majority of the American people who enjoy democracy support the incumbent.

From this point forward your choices are a guy who wants to moderate Israel while still supporting them, or you can let a fascist who wants to bomb Gaza even harder win because you, a spoiled privileged first worlder, actually thought that the incumbent would actually lose a primary.

Do you genuinely think condescension like this is going to help Biden win? Almost everyone here is on your side. My vote is guaranteed and it's not up for grabs. I'm holding my nose and voting for Biden. But like that other poster said, we're not who you have to worry about. It's the lurkers reading this. The people who aren't even here. It's the normies, the non-voters who only vote in Presidential years. People who are somehow still undecided in March 2024 or who might not vote. Do you think your attitude will be effective in getting them to pull the lever for Biden or do you think popular changes to his policies would be more effective?

legendary_zell posted...

Do you genuinely think condescension like this is going to help Biden win? Almost everyone here is on your side. My vote is guaranteed and it's not up for grabs. I'm holding my nose and voting for Biden. But like that other poster said, we're not who you have to worry about. It's the lurkers reading this. The people who aren't even here. It's the normies, the non-voters who only vote in Presidential years. People who are somehow still undecided in March 2024 or who might not vote. Do you think your attitude will be effective in getting them to pull the lever for Biden or do you think popular changes to his policies would be more effective?

I get where you're coming from, I really do. But at some point it becomes obvious many of these people are way too far gone, never were going to vote to begin with unless Bernie was around (even then I give it a 50/50 they forget the election date), are probably indoctrinated by Twitch streamers like Hasan who are out there acting like rapes didn't happen on October 7th, and have somehow ignored 4 years of fascist adjacent behavior from the other side all while being terminally online.

There's only so much you can do before you just have to tell them the truth.

SunburnCostanza posted...

I get where you're coming from, I really do. But at some point it becomes obvious many of these people are way too far gone, never were going to vote to begin with unless Bernie was around (even then I give it a 50/50 they forget the election date), are probably indoctrinated by Twitch streamers like Hasan who are out there acting like rapes didn't happen on October 7th, and have somehow ignored 4 years of fascist adjacent behavior from the other side all while being terminally online.

There's only so much you can do before you just have to tell them the truth.

Maybe some of them are. Maybe a lot of them are. But you can't go around treating everyone that way because it's incredibly ineffective and offputting, whether they are or aren't a lost cause. This only positive effect this "truth" you're talking about could have is to make you feel better for dunking on people you consider dumb. It's certainly not helping Biden, democracy, or the country.

It would be far more effective to drop the standard attacks on "online leftists" and instead identify some ways in which Biden will improve that person's life. Improve. Not a way Trump will be worse. Not a way they will be responsible for some terrible outcome in the event Trump wins. Some policy proposal that will only come from a Biden second term. Preferably something that is concrete and not abstract and that aligns with people's material interests. Something short or at least medium term and related to paychecks, bills, housing costs, childcare, healthcare etc. I guarantee you that'll produce better returns.

legendary_zell posted...

Maybe some of them are. Maybe a lot of them are. But you can't go around treating everyone that way because it's incredibly ineffective and offputting, whether they are or aren't a lost cause. This only positive effect this "truth" you're talking about could have is to make you feel better for dunking on people you consider dumb. It's certainly not helping Biden, democracy, or the country.

It would be far more effective to drop the standard attacks on "online leftists" and instead identify some ways in which Biden will improve that person's life. Improve. Not a way Trump will be worse. Not a way they will be responsible for some terrible outcome in the event Trump wins. Some policy proposal that will only come from a Biden second term. Preferably something that is concrete and not abstract and that aligns with people's material interests. Something short or at least medium term and related to paychecks, bills, housing costs, childcare, healthcare etc. I guarantee you that'll produce better returns.

Thats already been tried here and people ignore it

Rika_Furude posted...

Thats already been tried here and people ignore it

Sadly this. Some people are too blinded by their hatred of Biden to even see the threat posed by the far right.