Current Events > Apparently direction indicators in games is a problem now.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/91b05d00.jpg

Shotgunnova posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/91b05d00.jpg

That looks like Enchanted Arms, is that Enchanted Arms?

I get the need but there could be better ways to handle it.

Like scuff the shit out of a wall you can climb, show a few year's worth of bootscrapes and scuff marks.

Or have ivy growing on unclimbable walls, clear it for climbable.

Don't have ladders you can't climb, just fuckin' get rid of those useless jackasses.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

You are mistaken.

no i'm not

Cocytus posted...

You have to have those so players don't get lost.

let them get lost,it's better then handholding them to this degree

VeggetaX posted...

https://youtu.be/zbE6fqBuGkA?si=ARNg16gLGB_WxoWF

His Doom Eternal gameplay footage is even more embarrassing, just sayin.

I don't mind it..
i want full navigation systems for games with combat systems. platforming and puzzles just end up as useless filler time wasters so want to breeze through them quick

Also yeah it harder to find important objects if a game has super detailed graphics with a lot of junk in every room. Like ok that is prob fine for hidden object and puzzle games but not if the main focus of the game is action and killing!!!!!

Yes, this is so much more intrusive than the original game's option to put an indicator on the player and every area's exits.

/s

NoxObscuras posted...

The complaints will die down if it turns out there's an option to turn that off

Unlikely. People wouldn't have to turn on an easy mode for Dark Souls, yet that hasn't stopped people from firmly protesting against such a mode's inclusion to this day.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

The other thing is for a big budget game they can't just make it for people like those of us on this board who have been playing video games for decades. They also have to make it accessible to newer players who maybe need a little hand holding.

Funny thing is, as the years progress, the games are becoming more and more linear they they have ever been, despite the worlds becoming larger an larger.

The trial and error of the 8 and 16 bit generation (which were extremely linear in the 2D era) have been replaced with storyline driven, hand-holding quests that give you a virtual infinite amount of lives.

indicator or not that is just ugly.

VeggetaX posted...

https://youtu.be/4OZqmWB0wXo?si=vJyuP-yQ2APH7zly

Very storied and well known Dev by the way. Cliffy B could probably think circles around this guy.

I'd prefer if game design and layout could handle this in a more natural way, but I don't mind it. SOmetimes it is just hard to say "this random slope of rock is climbable, but not these ones" without paint, so I don't mind.

Or have an option to toggle off.

World War Z painted climbable crates with yellow paint and it never bothered me.

Thought this was going to be about waypoints. The paint is stupid and I can do without it. If you really feel the need to point stuff out to us just give us a way to briefly highlight things in the area that we can interact with.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

I'd prefer if game design and layout could handle this in a more natural way, but I don't mind it. SOmetimes it is just hard to say "this random slope of rock is climbable, but not these ones" without paint, so I don't mind.

Or have an option to toggle off.

You can handle this by removing this section entirely since its complete fluff

There's always been problem with it.

2 issues:

1, Immersion

2, puzzle solving

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

while i agree with you. it's unfortunate that the vocal majority will ask for their hands to be held at the expense of those disagree with those choices.

Nemu posted...

It's definitely a very ugly trend that could be done in a number of more aesthetically pleasing ways, and for some reason, traveling painters are more immersion breaking than ancient dungeons having lit lanterns.

Sadly most gamers miss the 'natural' attempts and even the blatant guiding so this is what is required sadly

We used to get lost all the time and we liked it. Sometimes we had to crouch in front of a cliff for an hour until a random whirlwind would pick us up and take us to the next stage and we didn't complain even though the game never told us to do that anywhere.

Funkydog posted...

Sadly most gamers miss the 'natural' attempts and even the blatant guiding so this is what is required sadly

Except none of this is required people can find and climb a ladder without an indicator being there and they don't need to be guided

majin_nemesis posted...

Except none of this is required people can find and climb a ladder without an indicator being there and they don't need to be guided

That's not true unfortunately.

They can't. Vast amounts of people have trouble with the basic concept of moving the camera or shooting and so need to be told point blank what to do.

Iyami posted...

We used to get lost all the time and we liked it. Sometimes we had to crouch in front of a cliff for an hour until a random whirlwind would pick us up and take us to the next stage and we didn't complain even though the game never told us to do that anywhere.

People defending the esoteric mechanics of Simon's Quest is certainly a take.

Like no that shit is badly designed. If they just hinted at it, it'd be more feasible but still dumb. There's no universe where "hit your head on a cliff" is remotely good puzzle solving.

Mirrors Edge has always used indicators the best.

Funkydog posted...

That's not true unfortunately.

They can't. Vast amounts of people have trouble with the basic concept of moving the camera or shooting and so need to be told point blank what to do.

Stop arguing with him. He thinks gamers can't be dumb or can't be capable of not seeing something obvious.

The main thing is there's a difference between having options to cater to the non-game player and having the experience inherently cater to the non-game player. God of War's constant, insentient talking during puzzles and games using yellow paint are over-corrections to a problem that can be solved in other ways, and it seems like some people are inherently defending bad design for no particular reason.

I like the idea of doing this as sort of an easy mode in ways, but it should definitely have an off switch too.

Nemu posted...

The main thing is there's a difference between having options to cater to the non-game player and having the experience inherently cater to the non-game player. God of War's constant, insentient talking during puzzles and games using yellow paint are over-corrections to a problem that can be solved in other ways, and it seems like some people are inherently defending bad design for no particular reason.

You guys are having major severe lack of mindness for others in this thought process. A lot of "The game should be designed for me!" energy here. Have you guys ever thought maybe the design will work well with people who are colorblind? What about the people who don't have a 4K HD TV/Monitor so they aren't capable of seeing everything as clearly?

VeggetaX posted...

You guys are having major severe lack of mindness for others in this thought process. A lot of "The game should be designed for me!" energy here. Have you guys ever thought maybe the design will work well with people who are colorblind? What about the people who don't have a 4K HD TV/Monitor so they aren't capable of seeing everything as clearly?

Those are called accessibility options.

Smackems posted...

If they gave us a side quest about this dude running around painting everywhere he goes I'd be ok with it

The first God of War actually did justify it. Kratos' late wife had prophetic dreams, so she took the journey she knew he and their son would take. All of the yellow paint indicators were made by her.

And I forget if the first Horizon game did it, but Forbidden West justifies it too. There aren't any yellow indicators on cliffs normally, but scanning with her little tech doodad puts them up. And in both games, they simply use a uniquely colored red grass to indicate that you can hide from enemies in it.

You don't think these color indicators is an extension of that?

I don't see why there can't just be like a hint button or something. Like if you get stuck you could press it and it'd bring up a line or an arrow showing you where you need to go.

Oh no, I absolutely hate when accessibility features break my immersion because I am the only person that matters. Imagine playing the original Final Fantasy VII without pointers and OSD guides to show you where all of the ladders and doors were.

Let's remove any other indicators like life bar etc too

That reminds me about a video game journalist who complained that the ingame compass showing him the direction of his goal lead him right towards a cliff he had to walk around, instead of just showing him the fastest way.

Yeah, that's how a compass works.

Don't you want to watch streamers like Game Grumps struggle with basic progression in games?

Arin: WHERE DO I GO
Arin: *Spends whole episode going in circles ignoring all hints*
Danny: Should I find a guide?
Arin: THIS GAME SUCKS

It's just old farts who played Super Metroid and think every game can and needs to be Super Metroid.

You know, like how on every board for every game ever, you have this discussion:

"This game is terrible! The camera isn't glued to your back, something something iframes, blocking and dodging, blah blah, Dark Souls is better."
"But this is a racer."
"EXACTLY!"

Yes gamers can be such entitled Karens

You ever notice how people who throw around "entitled" don't really have a sense of what they're talking about?

Guide posted...

You ever notice how people who throw around "entitled" don't really have a sense of what they're talking about?

The vernacular definition of entitled refers to people who are not actually entitled to things but act like they are. Language be funny like dat sometimes.

majin_nemesis posted...

yeah this is treating gamers like they are dumb

...

*cough*

Alucard188 posted...

Oh no, I absolutely hate when accessibility features break my immersion because I am the only person that matters. Imagine playing the original Final Fantasy VII without pointers and OSD guides to show you where all of the ladders and doors were.

We should honestly just remove "immersion" from the lexicon at this point.

It's not a bad thing itself but for your average internet misanthrope, it's the only thing that matters. If the game spewed out hundred dollar bills by the dozen, everyone would whine that it's not immersive.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a9acf3b5.jpg

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

The vernacular definition of entitled refers to people who are not actually entitled to things but act like they are. Language be funny like dat sometimes.

The funny thing is that it works either way itt

lmao

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

The vernacular definition of entitled refers to people who are not actually entitled to things but act like they are. Language be funny like dat sometimes.

Ignore him. He's doing his pedantic bit since he has no argument for the accessibility point and feels attacked.

DrizztLink posted...

I get the need but there could be better ways to handle it.

Like scuff the shit out of a wall you can climb, show a few year's worth of bootscrapes and scuff marks.

Or have ivy growing on unclimbable walls, clear it for climbable.

Don't have ladders you can't climb, just fuckin' get rid of those useless jackasses.

Dont a lot of games use ivy to show a climbable wall?

It's just more hand holding that hurts games by reducing the need for players to figure things out for themselves; an important aspect of video games. It's also a sure sign that a game will be a casual waste of time.

The original game had pointer markers to highlight which parts of the area you are able to come and go from so this isn't too much different. Bit of an ugly solution though.

What is it with morons who feel the need to refer to everything as a "virus" or "cancer"?

Most people don't like being treated like they're dumb. Unfortunately, most people ARE dumb.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Most people don't like being treated like they're dumb. Unfortunately, most people ARE dumb.

No, most people are average. Somehow, the lower than average ones end up in playtesting.

Guide posted...

No, most people are average.

Insert George Carlin quote here.