Poll of the Day > In wake of the war between Hamas and Israel antisemitism surges.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.reuters.com/world/open-hatred-jews-surges-globally-inflamed-by-gaza-war-2023-10-31/

i think we all can agree that this is wrong to punish Jews globally regardless of how you view about the war

yup, there's been a lot of gross hate crimes committed on jewish and arab people since the outbreak of the war.

The 6-year old that was stabbed in Illinois, Wadea al-Fayoume, is the saddest shit.

ReturnOfFa posted...

yup, there's been a lot of gross hate crimes committed on jewish and arab people since the outbreak of the war.

The 6-year old that was stabbed in Illinois, Wadea al-Fayoume, is the saddest shit.

Indeed. Hating on people for being the same ethnicity as people involved in a war halfway around the world is such a horrible thing to do. Especially children.

People were so dumb that Asian hate crimes rose during covid.

Philippians were getting called Chinese and then blamed for that one guy who ate a bat and personally created covid (may he remain anonymous for his own sake).

Yellow posted...

People were so dumb that Asian hate crimes rose during covid.

Philippians were getting called Chinese and then blamed for that one guy who ate a bat and personally created covid (may he remain anonymous for his own sake).

Pangolins are not bats.

It was rising even before the current shit. People barely contain their antisemitism even at the best of times.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It was rising even before the current shit. People barely contain their antisemitism even at the best of times.

This is also true, particularly with how many politicians are outright courting neo-Nazis. As much as it's been memed, MTG's "Jewish Space Lasers" comment was a symptom of it.

But Palestinians are semites. the biggest antisemites are apparently Israel

Yea not touching this thread.

You know what, I change my mind.
https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-israel-and-gaza-a6c397f09a30
Don't let sensationalist garbage control your world view. I trust Obama's take on this a hell of a lot more than the media.

Judgmenl posted...

You know what, I change my mind.
https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-israel-and-gaza-a6c397f09a30
Don't let sensationalist garbage control your world view. I trust Obama's take on this a hell of a lot more than the media.

Obama bombed more people than Israel could dream of and did not send pamphlets warning civilians

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Obama bombed more people than Israel could dream of and did not send pamphlets warning civilians

Would you trust a pamphlet when the area you are told to go to still gets bombed? Are you willing to travel a day on foot through shelled rubble with no guarantee of safety en route?

Could you imagine finding a shitty weather-worn pamphlet outside your home telling you to evacuate? ok yea time to abandon everything go...uh...somewhere

Judgmenl posted...

You know what, I change my mind.
https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-israel-and-gaza-a6c397f09a30
Don't let sensationalist garbage control your world view. I trust Obama's take on this a hell of a lot more than the media.

Obama's take is pretty unremarkable. It's the same tepid admonishment of Israel's disproportionate retaliation seen from most Western leaders, which roughly amounts to "we like Israel better than Arab nations, but we should probably say something bad about murdering 8000 civilians." The rest is little more than "thoughts and prayers that they find reconciliation," without actually taking any steps to force a ceasefire (which Obama has no authority to do, obviously, but many other leaders saying similar things do).

ReturnOfFa posted...

Could you imagine finding a shitty weather-worn pamphlet outside your home telling you to evacuate? ok yea time to abandon everything go...uh...somewhere

and if you do evacuate they shoot the truck anyway

It is a lot more morally gray than Palestinians bad or Israelis bad

i side with Israel but not all Israel or Palestine bad/good

Devil_May_Cry posted...

It is a lot more morally gray than Palestinians bad or Israelis bad

i side with Israel but not all Israel or Palestine bad/good

Even though I've disagreed with your focus, I'm glad you can at least say this.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

It is a lot more morally gray than Palestinians bad or Israelis bad

i side with Israel but not all Israel or Palestine bad/good

I wouldn't say it's morally grey. The Israeli government is bad and Hamas is bad. The supporters that encourage them and keep them in power are also bad. Everyone else is either a victim or irrelevant.

Yeah pretty sure murdering civilians is bad no matter who you are or what your reason is

Precisely. Civilian deaths can sometimes be acceptable as collateral damage pursing a greater good, but that's not at all what's happening here.

Zareth posted...

Yeah pretty sure murdering civilians is bad no matter who you are or what your reason is

If Hitler was in a crowd of 500 you would not drop a bomb to kill him?
I would drop a bomb to kill the greater evil no matter how many innocent men, women, and children are in the way to secure a better future.
You are in theory preventing more death and the collateral as tragic as it is is worth it

War is ugly

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It was rising even before the current shit. People barely contain their antisemitism even at the best of times.

This, pretty much. Although usually college professors tended to rely on dog whistles instead of outright cheering on livestreams of attacks on Jews. And their level of supports makes it unsurprising that Yale and other campuses had students release thinly-veiled anti-Semitic statements.

And although it's nothing new, it's still shocking how open the celebrations have been in the US over the murder of Israeli women and children.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Obama bombed more people than Israel could dream of and did not send pamphlets warning civilians

He certainly didn't warn that wedding party they were about to hit by a drone strike.

It does seem like racism and radicalism is getting worse every year.
Like to the point where I'm wondering if we need a disastrous war every 50 years or so just to remind us how to get along again.
Or maybe this is what happens when it's too easy to get information fake or otherwise instead of just believing what your government tells you?

Makes me hate the human race, we're terrible

Devil_May_Cry posted...

If Hitler was in a crowd of 500 you would not drop a bomb to kill him?

Depends. Am I absolutely certain he's in there? Is there a very significant likelihood that, despite my omniscient surveillance abilities, I will not be able to find him again for a safer attack later on, or assassinate him with less collateral damage than a bomb would cause? Can I be reasonably certain that killing Hitler would actually stop the Nazis, instead of turning him into a martyr that his next-in-command would use to rally them to even greater atrocities? Am I committed to helping any civilians harmed by my attack, including rebuilding damaged infrastructure and providing medical care?

It's very, very rare that you can clearly say "killing this many people now is the least damaging way to prevent more people from being killed later." Even if you are as certain as anyone can be that that is the lesser of two evils, though, you still have a responsibility to mitigate the impact that lesser evil has on the innocents affected by it.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

I would drop a bomb to kill the greater evil no matter how many innocent men, women, and children are in the way to secure a better future.
You are in theory preventing more death and the collateral as tragic as it is is worth it

Let's say you time travel to 1938 and manage to bring one nuke with you. You know roughly where Hitler is, but he's in the middle of an area that's dense enough that launching your nuke at him can be expected to kill 80 million people (not altogether plausible, but this is a hypothetical situation and that's the estimated total death toll of WWII). Would you still do it? Or would that make you the greater evil?

"The end justifies the means" is not carte blanche to do whatever you want. If you end up killing more people stopping "the bad guy" than "the bad guy" would have killed, you're actually the bad guy. Again, let's look at this infographic:
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16516.jpeg

Between 2008 and 2020, 5590 Palestinians were killed under the pretense of stopping a terrorist group that killed 251 Israelis in that same time frame, a process which did not actually stop Hamas from killing any future Israelis (hence the current situation). In the current conflict, the last counts I saw were 13 Hamas militants killed out of ~8200 innocent Palestinian civilians. I'm very confident saying that those 13 militants would not have managed to kill an average of 650 innocent Israeli civilians each if they'd been left alive or killed in a less indiscriminate offensive later.

Those numbers do not support "Israel had to kill these civilians to stop the greater evil." Those numbers support "Israel is the greater evil."

Count_Drachma posted...

This, pretty much. Although usually college professors tended to rely on dog whistles instead of outright cheering on livestreams of attacks on Jews. And their level of supports makes it unsurprising that Yale and other campuses had students release thinly-veiled anti-Semitic statements.

And although it's nothing new, it's still shocking how open the celebrations have been in the US over the murder of Israeli women and children.

An interesting comment from somebody who's previously insisted that people marching around wearing swastikas don't indicate a Nazi problem and that Jewish students don't need to be alarmed by dorm-mates hanging swastikas on their doors. Very interesting indeed.

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on Israel killing over 8000 Palestinian civilians in their retaliation? I don't actually have to ask, because I know your response is going to be something along the lines of "you didn't have a problem when Obama did it" while conspicuously never actually taking a stance of your own, but I figure that'll be entertaining to watch.

Killing Hitler was the plot for Red Alert.
Spoilers, it didn't help.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

If Hitler was in a crowd of 500 you would not drop a bomb to kill him?
I would drop a bomb to kill the greater evil no matter how many innocent men, women, and children are in the way to secure a better future.
You are in theory preventing more death and the collateral as tragic as it is is worth it

War is ugly

Can you name who the Hitler figure is in this circumstance? Not trying to downplay the terrorist acts that Hamas has committed, but if someone is on par with Hitler, then the name should be ubiquitous, no?