Current Events > Israel/Palestine war is the closest "same thing both sides" we'll get

(+) Yeah! (+)

***(This is about the CURRENT state of affairs, not the 80 years of history leading up to these events.)***

In terms of the horrific actions by both Israel and Hamas, as well as the discourse involving both sides. Both sides committing horrific acts, and both sides are defending said acts, even going as far as to say the killings of babies and young children are justifiable.

And this is coming from someone who is pro-Palestine, but the terrorist attacks are disgusting, Israels response has been horrific, and the fact that anyone can say the killings of babies is justifiable because theyre considered occupants and not citizens is deeply disturbing.

Both sides, at this moment in time, are in the wrong.

*aLtErNaTiNg LetTeRs and overused Scooby Doo meme*

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Of course they should go after Hamas but can't they do that without civilians being in the crossfire? Israel doesn't care how many non-combatants they kill when going after Hama just like Hamas doesn't care about how many Innocents are caught in their crossfire.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

According to a lot of people, move.

For a more practical (and less antisemitic) answer, they could have retaliated without collective punishment, white phosphorous attacks on civilians, denial of food and water, or impossible deadlines.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Not level down entire neighborhoods with no distinguishment of terrorist/civilians. Not target hospital/medical staff, not target people evacuation just like they were told. At this rate Israel has killed more people than Hamas did. How will this stop? When all palestinians are dead?

An eye for an eye the world goes blind and the kids are the one who suffer the most so fuck off your vengeful bloodlust. Also Israel has 100 million times the resources than hamas. Pretty sure they can figure out a better way

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

no retaliate by breaking the Geneva Conventions decrees. They have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, they could have done this a lot smoother but they didnt want to as they just want excuses to steal more land and murder brown babies

No, it's not the same thing both sides. Look into how Israel was created and how people were driven out of their homes to make it happen. The "same thing both sides" and "it's complicated" narratives are used to paper over the reality and let Israel continue to drive people out of their homes.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

They couldve not deliberately cut food water and power to 2 million people for starters.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Not keep the region in such deplorable conditions for so long. I'm surprised no country called them out sooner.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Stopping for a second and reflecting on why things like this happen would be a good start.

The ball has always been in Israel's court when it comes to creating a real and lasting peace, but that will never happen because Israel chooses its expansionist policies over peace.

Is the only correct opinion to have to go to the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for all of this to blow over?

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Fight back, but committing war crimes and playing innocent victim so the West will ignorantly defend you is bullshit.

If Ukraine bombs a bunch of innocent people in St. Petersburg, are we going to suddenly ignore Russia's responsibility and back Putin in defending his people?

Only if you ignore who holds power and who doesn't.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Not murder 700 children.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

You just got torn apart 10 different times in the same topic. Just take the L on this. Israel has a right to defend themselves. They, however, don't have a right to inflict collective punishment on a group of people or harm civilians

An atrocity committed upon you does not give you the right to commit atrocities against others. Nothing can.

1337toothbrush posted...

No, it's not the same thing both sides. Look into how Israel was created and how people were driven out of their homes to make it happen. The "same thing both sides" and "it's complicated" narratives are used to paper over the reality and let Israel continue to drive people out of their homes.

Read the fucking topic disclaimer. I know how it was created, it doesnt justify large scale terrorist attacks and the targeting of children and babies.

This is the exact shit Im talking about.

tl;dr version:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/1/AAEhCpAAE6r3.jpg

clyde_frog posted...

Read the fucking topic disclaimer. I know how it was created, it doesnt justify large scale terrorist attacks and the targeting of children and babies.

This is the exact shit Im talking about.

Yeah because the whole situation just happened out of nowhere. You're ignoring important context and so I ignored your silly little disclaimer.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Start by not air striking the road they told people to use to evacuate.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Definitely not hit civilians with white phosphorus.

1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah because the whole situation just happened out of nowhere. You're ignoring important context and so I ignored your silly little disclaimer.

I dont context to know whether murdering babies and children is okay or not.

clyde_frog posted...

I dont context to know whether murdering babies and children is okay or not.

You never context.

There is no "good guy" here.

Questionmarktarius posted...

There is no "good guy" here.

One side is borderline committing genicide, and is actively running an apartheid state

Hamas' actions are reprehensible and deplorable, and have obviously lead to extreme retribution to the people they're supposedly fighting for. However, I can say that quite easily sitting in a country where my freedoms and rights have never been questioned, I've never had my land or home taken away and I've never had the boot of a colonizer on my neck in what's been described as the world's largest open air prison.

I do wonder how far I would be willing to go if I had experienced those things all my life. It's a troubling thought.

hitokoriX posted...

One side is borderline committing genicide, and is actively running an apartheid state

Which means that side is utterly evil.

It doesn't say anything about whether the other side is good or bad.

There isn't a good side. There's very good arguments for Israel being the worse side, but both sides are really fucking bad.

They just plain and simply don't like each other.

I mean what can anyone really do?

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

They have the resources and technical expertise to hunt down Hamas leadership and culprits responsible for the barbaric attacks. Instead they choose to engage in collective military punishment against a population already being slowly cleansed and crushed under the boot of an apartheid state.

PrettyBoyFloyd posted...

They just plain and simply don't like each other.

I mean what can anyone really do?

not give one side billions of dollars to assist in killing the other

Trumble posted...

Which means that side is utterly evil.

It doesn't say anything about whether the other side is good or bad.

There isn't a good side. There's very good arguments for Israel being the worse side, but both sides are really fucking bad.

I think good/bad and viewing it as an on/off switch only makes it so people turn a blind eye to the conflict since "both sides bad, they should kill themselves" when in reality, the problem doesn't affect just Hamas and Israeli government, which we need to differentiate from Palestinian and Israeli people. Thus, we need to look at things less as good/bad and more where lies the source of all the issues we have there, which lies mostly with the Israeli government. Because, even ignoring the events that have happened here this past week, it has been the Israel (govt) that's been bullying, committing war crimes, overpowering, and colonizing over the Palestinian people over many years. That's not even counting Israel's unfair treatment towards the Bedouin who reside in Israel, which is a whole other discussion.

MarcyWarcy posted...

not give one side billions of dollars to assist in killing the other

And piss that side off.

And make them more aggressive.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

hmmmmmm

creativerealms posted...

Of course they should go after Hamas but can't they do that without civilians being in the crossfire? Israel doesn't care how many non-combatants they kill when going after Hama just like Hamas doesn't care about how many Innocents are caught in their crossfire.

ClayGuida posted...

Not murder 700 children.

Guide posted...

Definitely not hit civilians with white phosphorus.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Start by not air striking the road they told people to use to evacuate.

Once again, a bunch of people told you exactly what the proper resolution is.
anything but what they are doing right now which is genocide.

clyde_frog posted...

Both sides, at this moment in time, are in the wrong.

yup, and this is why this is not like Ukraine VS Russia.
I see people making the comparison (which is a silly comparison too in my opinion.)
if anything, Israel is closer to mirroring Russia than Ukraine.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

Not genocide Gaza and stop stealing peoples homes in West Bank.

It is pretty wild that people are openly and proudly promoting and defending the wholesale slaughter of children and denial of food and water. Israel ambassadors were literally bragging about it on the news.

You can oppose Hamas without dehumanizing everyone in Palestine and supporting/turning a blind eye to them all dying.

Letron_James posted...

no retaliate by breaking the Geneva Conventions decrees. They have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, they could have done this a lot smoother but they didnt want to as they just want excuses to steal more land and murder brown babies

This

Makes me think of that scene in Game of Thrones when Tyrion Lannister is trying to explain that murdering every baby in 20 miles might not be a good thing to do.

It's all a bunch a shit.

Political and Religious crazy's going at it.

Effecting people on both sides that has no real reason to do with it all.

pikachupwnage posted...

They couldve not deliberately cut food water and power to 2 million people for starters.

Typically, after war has been declared, the two warring parties stop trading with each other. Let alone see one warring party provide assistance to the other.

(Moral of the story: Don't initiate war with your primary trading partner. It'd be like seeing North Korea attack China. Nobody would think twice when China ends food and fuel shipments, then invades. And 90% of all North Korean trade is via China.)

Tom_Joad posted...

Typically, after war has been declared, the two warring parties stop trading with each other. Let alone see one warring party provide assistance to the other.

(Moral of the story: Don't initiate war with your primary trading partner. It'd be like seeing North Korea attack China. Nobody would think twice when China ends food and fuel shipments, then invades.)

Trading? You really are at this again? Israel denies them access to basic survival needs.
thats not trading.. thats torture.
I thought you learned from the other day how wrong you are..
Yet here you are for Round 3.

Why dont you just admit that Israel has crossed the line a long time ago and they need to stop commiting their genocidal atrocities on the people of palestine.

ZaruenKosai posted...

Trading? You really are at this again? Israel denies them access to basic survival needs.
thats not trading.. thats torture.
I thought you learned from the other day how wrong you are..
Yet here you are for Round 3.

Why dont you just admit that Israel has crossed the line a long time ago and they need to stop commiting their atrocities on the innocent people of palestine.

Well, that was a non-rebuttal.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

-End all occupation and oppression in West Bank. Palestinians have seen what "peace" looks like and its not pretty for them.

-Leave the region. They are not entitled to colonisation

-Don't do war crimes.

-Don't run propaganda trying to justify their war crimes and genocide.

All of these would be a great start and address most if not all criticisms of Israel's actions

Israel has become what its founders fled so long ago.

ColonizedMind posted...

Hamas' actions are reprehensible and deplorable, and have obviously lead to extreme retribution to the people they're supposedly fighting for. However, I can say that quite easily sitting in a country where my freedoms and rights have never been questioned, I've never had my land or home taken away and I've never had the boot of a colonizer on my neck in what's been described as the world's largest open air prison.

I do wonder how far I would be willing to go if I had experienced those things all my life. It's a troubling thought.

ColonizedMind posted...

Hamas' actions are reprehensible and deplorable, and have obviously lead to extreme retribution to the people they're supposedly fighting for. However, I can say that quite easily sitting in a country where my freedoms and rights have never been questioned, I've never had my land or home taken away and I've never had the boot of a colonizer on my neck in what's been described as the world's largest open air prison.

I do wonder how far I would be willing to go if I had experienced those things all my life. It's a troubling thought.

What country is that?

Tom_Joad posted...

Typically, after war has been declared, the two warring parties stop trading with each other. Let alone see one warring party provide assistance to the other.

(Moral of the story: Don't initiate war with your primary trading partner. It'd be like seeing North Korea attack China. Nobody would think twice when China ends food and fuel shipments, then invades. And 90% of all North Korean trade is via China.)

You speak of trade as if it's some voluntary activity instead of being forced to rely on Israel because Israel has taken all the best land and forced Palestinians into two separate ever-shrinking chunks of land.

1337toothbrush posted...

You speak of trade as if it's some voluntary activity instead of being forced to rely on Israel because Israel has taken all the best land and forced Palestinians into two separate ever-shrinking chunks of land.

North Korea has only three borders. The one to the South is mined, so no trade exists between North and South Korea.

Leaving China and Russia.

Their border with Russia is tiny and undeveloped. Kinda like the border between Gaza and Egypt.

China's border with North Korea is highly developed. But it only really occurs between Dandong and Yongchon. Again, like the border with Israel and Gaza.

And if North Korea launched a ground attack into China, nobody would demand that China keep supplying North Korea with fuel oil, food, cooking oil, clothes, or anything at all.

Because two countries at war do not provide aid, succor, or trade with each other.

---

And then, I also note that North Korea has suffered a famine since the 1990s... and nobody demands South Korea feed them.

Here is a question I have been afraid to ask, but heres nothing

why cant the rest of the world just sit this one out?

we got two sides, side 1 and side 2. This time around side 2 kicked side 1 in the balls and then went like awwww your balls.

now side 1 grabbed a baseball bat and its ready to crack side 2s skull for doing that. Is that right? No.

But what we have is bunch of third parties going like please, dont, cracking skulls is wrong, just turn around and let him get away with it and another set of third parties going like yessss!!! Yes!!! Crack his skull!!! Let me see if I can ship some aluminum bats your way too!.

there is no right intervention here, it can escalate into a world war real quick, why not just let both parties sort it out, for better or worse?

creativerealms posted...

Of course they should go after Hamas but can't they do that without civilians being in the crossfire? Israel doesn't care how many non-combatants they kill when going after Hama just like Hamas doesn't care about how many Innocents are caught in their crossfire.

Hamas, like every other shitty guerilla terrorist group hides behind civilians and children as a shield.

Im not saying you need to approve of anything Israel does but this is a hell of a false equivalence. Hamas targeted and mutilated babies, children killed by Israeli bombings are collateral damage of going after these pieces of shit who commit unspeakable shit like these attacks and then hides behind their own children.

You don't get credit for doing it on accident if you keep doing it.

"We targetted babies" and "we know there are babies at the target and we do not care" are an irrelevant distinction