Current Events > Israel/Palestine war is the closest "same thing both sides" we'll get

(+) Yeah! (+)

IceCreamOnStero posted...

"We targetted babies" and "we know there are babies at the target and we do not care" are an irrelevant distinction

I strongly disagree. Decapitating a baby is very much not the same thing as bombing a terrorist a group that decapitates babies while they hide in a hole with their multiple wives and children like the coward pieces of shit they are.

50% of Gaza, the place Israel has cut off water and electricity to, are under 18.

I would say I'm pro-civilian and anti-leadership for this conflict. Not exactly a difficult choice to make.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I strongly disagree. Decapitating a baby is very much not the same thing as bombing a terrorist a group that decapitates babies while they hide in a hole with their multiple wives and children like the coward pieces of shit they are.

There's terrorists in the US. Does that give someone a right to commit a genocide against America?

All these innocent people, all these children, they're just forfeit to you? Israel wanted to exterminate them even before Hamas attacked that music festival. We really need to stop fucking defending Israel.

Tom_Joad posted...

North Korea has only three borders. The one to the South is mined, so no trade exists between North and South Korea.

Leaving China and Russia.

Their border with Russia is tiny and undeveloped. Kinda like the border between Gaza and Egypt.

China's border with North Korea is highly developed. But it only really occurs between Dandong and Yongchon. Again, like the border with Israel and Gaza.

And if North Korea launched a ground attack into China, nobody would demand that China keep supplying North Korea with fuel oil, food, cooking oil, clothes, or anything at all.

Because two countries at war do not provide aid, succor, or trade with each other.

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And then, I also note that North Korea has suffered a famine since the 1990s... and nobody demands South Korea feed them.

South Korea isn't in the middle of North Korea and doesn't split North Korea into two separate pieces. South Korea isn't continually taking up more North Korean land through the use of settlements and other means. The situations are different.

It's not some straightforward war between two separate countries:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, I ask again.

What was Israel supposed to after the original attack by Hamas?

No attack on them would justify killing civilians.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I strongly disagree. Decapitating a baby is very much not the same thing as bombing a terrorist a group that decapitates babies while they hide in a hole with their multiple wives and children like the coward pieces of shit they are.

"We bombed babies instead of cutting their heads off. That's totally better right?"

IceCreamOnStero posted...

"We targetted babies" and "we know there are babies at the target and we do not care" are an irrelevant distinction

When they can't argue against "murdering children is bad", the pro-Israel crowd pivots to "Ok, but at least Israel isn't completely barbaric about how they murder children like Hamas is!"

People are losing their fucking minds and humanity over this conflict. I guess it's easy to say that shit when it's half a world away. But Ukraine is the clear victim against Russia and it's all "Who cares about foreign shit that doesn't concern anyone else?"

1337toothbrush posted...

South Korea isn't in the middle of North Korea and doesn't split North Korea into two separate pieces. South Korea isn't continually taking up more North Korean land through the use of settlements and other means. The situations are different.

It's not some straightforward war between two separate countries:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

For Gaza, it is. HAMAS runs that place as an independent country, completely separate from the PA. They do not follow anything the PA does.

Furthermore, Gaza *IS* contiguous and has no Israeli presence. All Israel did was fortify it's border with them. They did so with concrete walls. South Korea did so with land mines.

In return, HAMAS launches missiles... which results in counter strikes. Which happens between North and South Korea as well. (Not missiles, but occasional artillery fire. Or naval fire.)

Also, the US will seize North Korean merchant vessels if they suspect they are carrying weapons. Israel does the same against ships going into Gaza (most infamously, the Turkish "aid" ship that Israel raided, which was carrying weapons).

In addition, North Korea views South Korea as an illegitimate entity. That the government in Pyongyang is the only true government of the land of Korea. While the South Korean government in Seoul views itself as the only legitimate government of the Korean peninsula, with Pyongyang being illegitimate.

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Nobody says that South Korea is evil for doing the same things as Israel. Nobody would consider China evil if they responded to a North Korean attack like Israel is to Gaza.

Nobody said that the Allies were evil for not providing food and medical supplies to Nazi Germany in the middle of WWII.

Yet here we are, with some saying that one side is evil for not providing food, water, and medical supplies to their enemy in time of war.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I strongly disagree. Decapitating a baby is very much not the same thing as bombing a terrorist a group that decapitates babies while they hide in a hole with their multiple wives and children like the coward pieces of shit they are.

The end result is the same; both parties knowingly and willingly murdered babies. You trying to use an unconfirmed talking point to try to provoke an emotional response does not change that.

hockeybub89 posted...

There's terrorists in the US. Does that give someone a right to commit a genocide against America?

All these innocent people, all these children, they're just forfeit to you? Israel wanted to exterminate them even before Hamas attacked that music festival. We really need to stop fucking defending Israel.

No, they arent. But Im also not going to sit here like a naive dumbass and pretend like Israel isnt responding to this any different than literally any other country capable of doing so would.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

The end result is the same; both parties knowingly and willingly murdered babies. You trying to use an unconfirmed talking point to try to provoke an emotional response does not change that.

No, its not the same. one is targeted and undeniably deliberate. The other is collateral damage of an armed conflict in an area with a dense civilian population.

The_shibe posted...

Here is a question I have been afraid to ask, but heres nothing

why cant the rest of the world just sit this one out?

we got two sides, side 1 and side 2. This time around side 2 kicked side 1 in the balls and then went like awwww your balls.

now side 1 grabbed a baseball bat and its ready to crack side 2s skull for doing that. Is that right? No.

But what we have is bunch of third parties going like please, dont, cracking skulls is wrong, just turn around and let him get away with it and another set of third parties going like yessss!!! Yes!!! Crack his skull!!! Let me see if I can ship some aluminum bats your way too!.

there is no right intervention here, it can escalate into a world war real quick, why not just let both parties sort it out, for better or worse?

no one? Really?

The_shibe posted...

no one? Really?

because that's not how the real world works?

there is no country vs country conflict on earth that wouldn't have some sort of outside influence

Solid_Snake07 posted...

No, its not the same. one is targeted and undeniably deliberate. The other is collateral damage of an armed conflict in an area with a dense civilian population.

Just like all of Israel's human rights abuses before the attack were just "collateral damage" right?

The_shibe posted...

no one? Really?

Because its a fucking stupid post.

https://momleft.substack.com/p/a-childrens-war

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Who is making any arguments about right and wrong here? This is a long running blood feud where both sides hate the other on a level that is hard to comprehend. This is about 60 years past a conversation of whats right and wrong. Lets be realistic, there is not going to be any kumbaya moment here where both sides kiss and make up peacefully.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

Who is making any arguments about right and wrong here? This is a long running blood feud where both sides hate the other on a level that is hard to comprehend. This is about 60 years past a conversation of whats right and wrong. Lets be realistic, there is not going to be any kumbaya moment here where both sides kiss and make up peacefully.

We could at least stop trying to pretend one side is good and publicly aid them in their deliberate extermination of innocent people

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



to be clear, I dont give a fuck if they decapitated, shot them in their cribs, or set them on fire. They still deliberately targeted and in a very hands on way murdered infants. Ive seen the photo of the charred remains of an infant, I dont exactly find it a huge leap of belief that people who would set a baby on fire would remove a babys head from its body.

but by all means, keep underplaying this

Darryl Cooper did a pretty good rundown of the entire history behind the conflict, where he lays blame on pretty much all parties involved for the atrocities that have been committed.

Hamas itself should be hunted to extinction, but the amount of bloodshed that it will take to kill your way to that end result is staggering.

There are countless historical examples of just how difficult it is to stamp out these types of groups.

Russia was bled by the Chechens before deciding to level entire cities.

The U.S. was bled for 20 years by the Taliban, Al Qaeda, then ISIS. It took house-to-house fighting in every city to create green zones, and even then, you cant ever stamp out hate (especially when it runs as deep as it does in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict), so there are always insurgents lurking.

I dont have a solution, and neither does history, but it is terrible to see the human cost of this and that it will cost more lives still.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



no, Im not. Im saying that hands on murder of infants and collateral civilian casualties is a false equivalence. Something thats common sense to anyone who isnt trying to be an apologist and underplay the hamas attacks.

With the atrocities committed by the American right throughout history, they have no right to wave their finger at Israel nor the Hamas.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

collateral civilian casualties

What they do to the civilians in west bank isn't collateral damage though. Its murder.

Also, you have the Israeli president saying shit like "there are no civilians in Gaza"

Patchwork posted...

Darryl Cooper did a pretty good rundown of the entire history behind the conflict, where he lays blame on pretty much all parties involved for the atrocities that have been committed.

Hamas itself should be hunted to extinction, but the amount of bloodshed that it will take to kill your way to that end result is staggering.

There are countless historical examples of just how difficult it is to stamp out these types of groups.

Russia was bled by the Chechens before deciding to level entire cities.

The U.S. was bled for 20 years by the Taliban, Al Qaeda, then ISIS. It took house-to-house fighting in every city to create green zones, and even then, you cant ever stamp out hate (especially when it runs as deep as it does in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict), so there are always insurgents lurking.

I dont have a solution, and neither does history, but it is terrible to see the human cost of this and that it will cost more lives still.

yeah, they can go and "eliminate" all of Hamas right now, but that doesn't mean there won't be an entire new generation of 'terrorists' 10-20 years from now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the US itself got hit by another terrorist attack in the next 10-20 after we spent 2 decades making the middle east hate us

Solid_Snake07 posted...

No, its not the same. one is targeted and undeniably deliberate. The other is collateral damage of an armed conflict in an area with a dense civilian population.

If you know children die when you do it and you keep doing it knowing thst doing will result in dead children, its not some "inevitable collateral", its absolutely deliberate. Israel know they are killing kids and they know how to stop killing kids yet they keep killing kids because they don't give a shit about killing Palestinian kids.

Im dont think its controversial when I say every war has collateral damage. Look at the Dresden bombings for example.

Thats not to say Israel doesnt deserve criticism for pushing ahead with collective punishment, using white phosphorous or saying hospitals need to evacuate almost immediately which will cause unnecessary innocent deaths.

thronedfire2 posted...

yeah, they can go and "eliminate" all of Hamas right now, but that doesn't mean there won't be an entire new generation of 'terrorists' 10-20 years from now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the US itself got hit by another terrorist attack in the next 10-20 after we spent 2 decades making the middle east hate us

I wouldnt be surprised in the least if there was another terror attack in the U.S. in the near future, for a number of reasons.

We spent 20 years in the Middle East killing and then half-ass rebuilding, and our government never committed to the latter. Then we left abruptly, abandoning a lot of people who had aided us. And I know its weird to say abrupt after 20 years, but we badly botched our draw-down and exit.

We also support Israel, and that has always put us on Hamas shit list (rightfully so, fuck Hamas).

Despite recent efforts, were not going to be on good terms with Iran any time soon, and Hezbollah would love to drag us into more war.

And we have a border issue, widely publicized, which is a glaring national security flaw when we talk about terrorism concerns.

I hope Im wrong, but the world is in a very volatile state and I dont have high hopes that we will be insulated from that, especially given how involved we are from a distance.

The_shibe posted...

no one? Really?

No one wants to address this because all you did was simplify it in a way that fits your narrative and isn't anywhere close to how the last 50+ years has played out at all.

It's also not just collateral damage when Israel has been deliberately harming innocent people for years and has as much open disdain for Palestine as Hamas has for Jews.

Trying to paint Israel as merely retaliating to unprovoked violence, and unfortunately catching some innocents in the crossfire, just isn't the full picture.

hockeybub89 posted...

It's also not just collateral damage when Israel has been deliberately harming innocent people for years and has as much open disdain for Palestine as Hamas has for Jews.

Trying to paint Israel as merely retaliating to unprovoked violence, and unfortunately catching some innocents in the crossfire, just isn't the full picture.

True. I totally accept Israel has the right to defend itself. But some of the actions weve seen have gone too far imo. Namely collective punishment and the use of white phosphorus .

Solid_Snake07 posted...

no, Im not. Im saying that hands on murder of infants and collateral civilian casualties is a false equivalence.

It isn't when both are intentional.

Shadow_Don posted...

Because its a fucking stupid post.

why is it?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


youre right. I just wish common sense prevailed among these countries so they didnt start a war

The_shibe posted...

why is it?

why cant the rest of the world just sit this one out?

How does Egypt "sit this one out" when the conflict is going to cause a massive refugee crisis into their country at a moment when they have no way of dealing with it? Use your head.

Shadow_Don posted...

How does Egypt "sit this one out" when the conflict is going to cause a massive refugee crisis into their country at a moment when they have no way of dealing with it? Use your head.

closing their border? Duh.

Tom_Joad posted...

Because two countries at war do not provide aid, succor, or trade with each other.

Geneva signatories would be expected to provide medical aid & not interfere with other people's attempts to provide it.

Weird how Syrian refugees managed to get to countries that closed their borders to them.

It's almost like war refugees will cross borders illegally if it's a choice between that and death.

It really is a tragic situation. I dont see what can be done without making the situation even worse.

The_shibe posted...

now side 1 grabbed a baseball bat and its ready to crack side 2s skull for doing that. Is that right? No.

But what we have is bunch of third parties going like please, dont, cracking skulls is wrong, just turn around and let him get away with it and another set of third parties going like yessss!!! Yes!!! Crack his skull!!! Let me see if I can ship some aluminum bats your way too!.

You left out that side one is bashing every innocent person in their way on the head to get to side 2.