Current Events > an easy mode has never ruined a game

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nice walk back lol

Aysander posted...

No modern games does this.

Sonic Frontiers came out less than a year ago.

Hypothetical here.

What if the game devs added an easy mode to the next Souls game. They do this because they wanted to, not because of any alleged pressure or influence. The game still has a satisfying difficult on normal and higher difficulty levels, as the game was balanced around them. In fact, it's the hardest game yet.

Would you still find yourself unable to enjoy that game?

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As I said before you are more than welcome to post these supposed people ranting about a harder difficulty in Kirby. The same would apply to them.

The option of a hard difficulty being brought into Kirby wouldn't stop the people who enjoy easy mode from enjoying the game in easy mode.

hyperskate65 posted...

Sonic Frontiers came out less than a year ago.

TBF you can cheat it by switching to hard for only the last boss and get the true ending.

Wait, Sonic Frontiers seriously pulls a "game ends early if not played on the highest difficulty"? Is this the 90s?

Touhou 6, Sonic Chaos as Tails

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You are dodging what I said.

You aren't going to find a large number of people like you who claim to enjoy Kirby on easy mode, crying that Nintendo decided to add an option for hard-core difficulty. I dare say you'd find any at all, and of the small fraction you do theoretically find, like I said the same would apply to them as well.

Nintendo deciding to add a hard difficulty to the game, does not do anything to players who enjoy easy mode instead. The game isn't "ruined" because a hard mode option is added.

Have never met anyone who has opposed a higher difficulty option for a Kirby game.

Plenty of people are begging for higher difficulty options for Pokemon, and have been doing so for over a decade.

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I love how you continuously walk back and dodge lol.

spikethedevil posted...

TBF you can cheat it by switching to hard for only the last boss and get the true ending.

That's fair - but it was just the first one I knew off the top of my head since I had played it recently. I'm sure there's at least a few other games that have something similar.

Umbreon posted...

Wait, Sonic Frontiers seriously pulls a "game ends early if not played on the highest difficulty"? Is this the 90s?

Not really, there's just a little bit extra added into the final boss fight. The story isn't particularly different or anything, and the actual ending isn't really changed.

Wouldnt ruin a game for me, but it if the devs dont want to, then its just something they dont want people experiencing. Like the Souls games, if they had easy mode, the games would just be attack button mashing games and I can understand thats not the kind of experience the devs want people walking away with.

Umbreon posted...

Hypothetical here.

What if the game devs added an easy mode to the next Souls game. They do this because they wanted to, not because of any alleged pressure or influence. The game still has a satisfying difficult on normal and higher difficulty levels, as the game was balanced around them. In fact, it's the hardest game yet.

Would you still find yourself unable to enjoy that game?

The same people that pull the "respect the dev's vision" card would 100% go into Nuclear Meltdown Mode and hurl a bunch of vitriol at FromSoft for months, including death threats and review-bombing, for "bending the knee to casuals" and "giving in to the pressure," etc. And they'll still buy the game.

That is exactly what would happen in that scenario.

Umbreon posted...

Wait, Sonic Frontiers seriously pulls a "game ends early if not played on the highest difficulty"? Is this the 90s?

Mega Man X8 doesn't let you fight the real final boss on lower difficulties either.

Sekiro had a hard mode and no one seemed to mind.

This is such a dumb argument that people only say to start stuff and we all know it.

Easy modes don't ruin games if the difficulty is not a piece of the artistic expression the developers are trying to create. Dark Souls has crafted its world and design around this difficulty, and for you to tell them they have to accommodate their art to your crybaby preferences is egotistical, and it's no wonder they don't want to cater to such a lame demographic. You give a little, and they are definitely going to start crying about more things.

Halo doesn't care, and doesn't see difficulty as a core piece of its artistic representation, and thus gives the player the choice to play through the game how they see fit.

It's no wonder easy-mode elitists are always the ones crying, though. They probably think walking to the toilet to take a piss is too hard-mode for them too and need to use their juice boxes to pee in, instead.

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Says the guy who doesn't stick to his own points constantly walking back his own points just a post ago.

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So.... the devs adding the option (tje option btw that absolutely no one here said removes the hard difficulty).... doesn't actually harm the single player experience. Interesting.

That is unless, your experience is like I said, contingent on what difficulty Johnny down the block beats the game on.

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This is a really bad comparison.

LightningAce11 posted...

Which was this?

It was FF16.

This guy put a bunch of accessibility items and claimed the game too easy.

Charlie made a video on it.

https://youtu.be/B1MU8DAT4ak?si=iNa64jycY3hWeQsj

Souls offers the easiest mode - summon a player to beat the game for you.

Kitt posted...

The same people that pull the "respect the dev's vision" card would 100% go into Nuclear Meltdown Mode and hurl a bunch of vitriol at FromSoft for months, including death threats and review-bombing, for "bending the knee to casuals" and "giving in to the pressure," etc. And they'll still buy the game.

That is exactly what would happen in that scenario.

This 1000%.

These people don't actually care about the so called "artistic vision."

PiOverlord posted...

This is such a dumb argument that people only say to start stuff and we all know it.

Easy modes don't ruin games if the difficulty is not a piece of the artistic expression the developers are trying to create. Dark Souls has crafted its world and design around this difficulty, and for you to tell them they have to accommodate their art to your crybaby preferences is egotistical, and it's no wonder they don't want to cater to such a lame demographic. You give a little, and they are definitely going to start crying about more things.

Halo doesn't care, and doesn't see difficulty as a core piece of its artistic representation, and thus gives the player the choice to play through the game how they see fit.

It's no wonder easy-mode elitists are always the ones crying, though. They probably think walking to the toilet to take a piss is too hard-mode for them too and need to use their juice boxes to pee in, instead.

This is why we need a super hardcore "One try only" game.

PiOverlord posted...

This is such a dumb argument that people only say to start stuff and we all know it.

Easy modes don't ruin games if the difficulty is not a piece of the artistic expression the developers are trying to create. Dark Souls has crafted its world and design around this difficulty, and for you to tell them they have to accommodate their art to your crybaby preferences is egotistical, and it's no wonder they don't want to cater to such a lame demographic. You give a little, and they are definitely going to start crying about more things.

Halo doesn't care, and doesn't see difficulty as a core piece of its artistic representation, and thus gives the player the choice to play through the game how they see fit.

It's no wonder easy-mode elitists are always the ones crying, though. They probably think walking to the toilet to take a piss is too hard-mode for them too and need to use their juice boxes to pee in, instead.

Have you considered touching grass? It's a video game, not your wife.

There is nothing wrong with accessibility. Don't be a gatekeeper and an ableist.

Most of the 80s and a lot of 90s games didn't have an actual easy mode because the so called easy mode was just normal difficulty.

Games don't need easy modes just because some people want their hand to be held

ViewtifulGrave posted...

It was FF16.

This guy put a bunch of accessibility items and claimed the game too easy.

Charlie made a video on it.

https://youtu.be/B1MU8DAT4ak?si=iNa64jycY3hWeQsj

For the record, FFXVI is incredibly easy even without those items. Probably could beat it just by mashing square. Dont hide hard mode behind NG+

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Most of the 80s and a lot of 90s games didn't have an actual easy mode because the so called easy mode was just normal difficulty.

Games don't need easy modes just because some people want their hand to be held

Games were 3 hours long and needed to stretch themselves. A lot of people never even completed games because they'd get too hard.

Umbreon posted...

Hypothetical here.

What if the game devs added an easy mode to the next Souls game. They do this because they wanted to, not because of any alleged pressure or influence. The game still has a satisfying difficult on normal and higher difficulty levels, as the game was balanced around them. In fact, it's the hardest game yet.

Would you still find yourself unable to enjoy that game?

It's never going to happen. The developer has stated on record that he wants people have the joy of overcoming the difficulty and an easy mode completely invalidates that feeling. It is antithetical to the game design. Plus Miyazaki also stated that multiple difficulties split the fanbase, so instead of being a shared experience based on careful fine tuning that everyone can talk about, there are multiple completely unrelated experiences around various difficulty levels that may not be so fine tuned. So it becomes really messy talking about the game. Plus the series is built on the reputation of challenging gameplay and people get a sense of pride and accomplishment for beating these games, so having an easy mode would chip away at this reputation and make the accomplishment feel less meaningful. These are most of the arguments the developer makes for there not being an easy mode in Souls

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Audiobook? Large text? Same as any other book.

Accessibility is not a genre thing. Accessibility is a wonderful technical breakthrough that allows everyone to experience something regardless of their limitations. I don't think any game should be above that. It's not like the features are ever mandatory, just options for people who need them. You don't even need to balance the game around the easier stuff.

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Audio book, large text, brail.

You didnt think before making this post did you?

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This has little to nothing to do with the point being made.

Ebert getting butthurt about whatever you're claiming is pivoting off to something irrelevant, and silly to pivot to. Don't cry to me about making a game and you willingly choosing to add something to the game so you can sell to the literal consumer.

DragonClaw01 posted...

It's never going to happen. The developer has stated on record that he wants people have the joy of overcoming the difficulty and an easy mode completely invalidates that feeling. It is antithetical to the game design. Plus Miyazaki also stated that multiple difficulties split the fanbase, so instead of being a shared experience based on careful fine tuning that everyone can talk about, there are multiple completely unrelated experiences around various difficulty levels that may not be so fine tuned. So it becomes really messy talking about the game. Plus the series is built on the reputation of challenging gameplay and people get a sense of pride and accomplishment for beating these games, so having an easy mode would chip away at this reputation and make the accomplishment feel less meaningful. These are most of the arguments the developer makes for there not being an easy mode in Souls

So games that aren't Souls are not finely tuned and there isn't any shared experiences? All other fanbases are split down difficulty level lines? And no one has any sense of pride or accomplishment because they can't shake the knowledge that there are people out there beating them below the recommended difficulty?

Assuming this is about FROMSoft games, in Japanese interviews, Miyazaki has said he wants to create games where the player feels isolated and lost and has to use the tools given to solve problems. He's said he also wants a 'shared' experience among players.

He's something of an admirer of Japanese puzzle boxes (Himitsu Bako) and in that spirit designs his games as set pieces to be solved. That's his conceptualization.

About Japanese puzzle boxes (emphasis mine):

https://www.brilliantpuzzles.com/5-sun-21-Step-RedIchimatsui-Japanese-Puzzle-Box.html

In order to open a Japanese Puzzle Box, you need to find the first piece (part of the box) you can move (by "move" we mean actually "slide"). This action causes other piece of the puzzle to "unlock" and allows you to move it too now. This is kind of a "chain reaction" where each piece you move partially unlocks other piece allowing it to be moved as well, and so on and so forth, so basically each move you execute allows you to execute your next move.

When the right movement combination is achieved, the box will open (meaning you are able to slide the top panel and open the box).

Crafting these boxes is considered a high art in Japan. An individual box has just one level of difficulty.

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CoyoteTheGreat posted...

Not every game is for every person. Like, if you want to play an easier game, play an easier game. There are plenty of fun, easy games, like all of the kirby games. There is no shame in that.

I honestly don't like difficulty settings in general. Games that have a ton of difficulty settings tend to have less polish, because all of a sudden you have to have your testers play the game three times to make sure it is balanced on all settings.

These. Standard difficulty settings are stupid and encourage lazy game design where higher difficulty just makes bosses have more health and hit harder. Like Tales of Arise on Hard is not hard at all, but by the end of the game, fights against basic mobs take multiple minutes because they have so much health. It just becomes tedious.

They also encourage incomplete experiences (e.g., if you want to see the real ending etc, you have to play in Normal or higher), and bullshit difficulty (e.g., pretty much any high difficulty in fighting games where the AI knows everything you do and reacts perfectly, modes where if you die you have to restart the whole level or the whole game in something thats not normally a roguelike, modes clearly meant for NG+, etc.). It also encourages time wasting playthrough, like FF7R not letting you play on Hard until youve beaten the game once.

Difficulty settings, if they exist, should be customizable where you can control different aspects of difficulty, but the only place Ive really seen this is strategy JRPGs like Fell Seal: Arbiters Mark.

Difficulty settings of any kind have no place in FromSoft games, as the intricately designed difficulty is the heart and soul of what they are. Besides, in basically all of them, its incredibly easy to break the game. For example, in DS1, if you start with the Master Key, you can get to Darkroot without fighting much of anything, and there are some high level spirits there that will gang up on you. You can kite them to a particular ledge, hunker down, and theyll jump off and kill themselves. You can repeat this infinitely, and after a pretty reasonable grinding time, for most of the game, you can kill any boss you run into in a few hits.

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But we're talking about physical accessibility. Obviously, someone still needs to understand the concept to actually understand or complete the work. No one is saying an easy mode would involve taking Souls and turning it into a COD clone with an in-your-face story and MCU cinematics. But maybe someone who gets Souls is physically incapable of beating it, maybe they weren't always that way.

There is no reason you can't provide a more accessible format that retains all the spirit of the original experience. Only Souls fans hate the idea of maximizing a playerbase.

Like, are people really going to say that something like Baldur's Gate 3 or the newer Doom games are incomplete, dumbed down experiences with no sense of accomplishment?

The lack of an easy mode has also never ruined a game.

The only thing Fromsoft are obligated to include in their games are things that are conducive to the experience they want to create. And it seems like Fromsoft want part of the experience to be uncompromising and unforgiving. From games provide a unique satisfaction where the only way forward is getting better, rather than switching the difficulty down or using some exploit.

If a player doesn't like that, there's other games to play. Dark Souls and the community around make it abundantly clear the kind of game it is. If you want an easy game, the industry has an inherent difficulty select through the sheer variety available. Play Kirby's Epic Yarn or something.

Deutschenlied posted...

But we're talking about physical accessibility. Obviously, someone still needs to understand the concept to actually understand or complete the work. No one is saying an easy mode would involve taking Souls and turning it into a COD clone with an in-your-face story and MCU cinematics. But maybe someone who gets Souls is physically incapable of beating it, maybe they weren't always that way.

There is no reason you can't provide a more accessible format that retains all the spirit of the original experience. Only Souls fans hate the idea of maximizing a playerbase.

Ill preface what I want to say here by stating that I was born with 20/200 vision, and I read ebooks with gigantic font, low margins and line spacing, white text on a black background, and occasionally do audiobooks at 1.25x for re-reads.

Theres literally no reason to play a Souls game for a disabled person without the motor control to play it normally. They basically dont have a story to speak of, unless you heavily dive into the environmental storytelling to put the pieces together, which even most normal people cant be arsed to do, so you can just watch / listen to a video essay explaining the story for that. The gameplay loop is the entire reason to play them.

If an option is added that basically just turns on God Mode, whats the point of playing it? Lets set aside that this wouldnt really solve anything, as most of the harder bits in Souls games are environmental anyway (like the Tomb of Giants even with God Mode and a method to generate light, most people are going to die a lot). The Souls games arent exactly known for visual spectacle either. So whats the appeal even supposed to be for someone that severely disabled?