Current Events > a video showing how needlessly complicated yugioh is

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNnIWebbt0c

Do people even do tribute summons anymore? I was under the impression that power creep has made many old strategies irrelevant.

Shadowplay posted...

Do people even do tribute summons anymore? I was under the impression that power creep has made many old strategies irrelevant.

you are correct if you cant summon several boss monsters on your OPPONENTS turn your deck is trash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVcsXyEpmw

Complicated? Yes.

Needlessly? Nah.

Negating the effect vs activation for instance actually is an interesting distinction to make and is mechanically relevant in a bunch of instances.

Shadowplay posted...

Do people even do tribute summons anymore? I was under the impression that power creep has made many old strategies irrelevant

Floowandereeze tribute summons and was a serious meta threat, and I think Monarchs are getting more support soon but God only knows if that'll actually amount to anything

it's fun playing the game when you do understand whats going on, but it really does suck how absolute trash Konami is at teaching new players. Every tutorial they have in anything recent they have done that has one is literally summon a normal monster to attack over enemies normal monster, then tribute your guys for a dark magician and maybe use like black pendant or banner of courage to boost attack up, then it throws you into games where a bunch of crazy stuff is happening with no explanation on whats going on, it's basically a requirement that you need a veteran player to teach you not only how to play, but how to learn how to play on your own

Kinda annoying how there's no viable way to just play "classic" Yugioh. Would love if that were its own Ranked tier in Master Duel or whatever.

Trickfinger posted...

Kinda annoying how there's no viable way to just play "classic" Yugioh. Would love if that were its own Ranked tier in Master Duel or whatever.

same id love to be able to play GX era style cards i feel that was peek yugioh

Its actually incredibly easy if you know how to play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnPN385wLI

I dunno. Yu-Gi-Oh dark duel stories see ed straight forward to me.

bump

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One Piece just started the past half year or so but prices are kinda dumb ATM but getting better.

YGO is one Id honestly steer away from if I were to recommend to newbies or oldies from before synchro or xyz era. The learning curve is just so damn high if you want to be competitive. Hell even just playing casually with my cousins I just check the fuck out when one of them does a 5+ minute combo.

Once you learn the basics it all comes down to learning any new mechanics such as links or pendulums when they release. What's more difficult is learning what each card specifically does and how it's effect works with other card effects.

Yugioh cards are worded very specific for a reason. It's so rulings can be made and understood.

Yea we've had these issues playing yugioh again a few years back. By the time they released link cards we all stopped playing.

Trickfinger posted...

Kinda annoying how there's no viable way to just play "classic" Yugioh. Would love if that were its own Ranked tier in Master Duel or whatever.

The old DS games are good for that, just gotta go find them. Great when I have the urge to play the old Six Samurai deck.

This game isn't complicated at all. And if you're playing a it in a sim like master duel the game will auto invalid a pretty good chunk of the technicals on top of it.

That and Yugi boomers coming back after quitting the game post GX frankly have no right to pretend they know what their talking about or what they feel the game should or shouldn't be.

It's not that bad. The only bullshit part is when cards have paragraphs of text on them

If/When was troublesome semantic trouble that, if memory serves, used to exist until it was largely corrected.

Name modification isn't complicated though.

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I've been looking at the modern Digimon and One Piece CCG myself. Have yet to actually bite on either though and I probably won't because I know when I do, they'll introduce new rules of play and I'll basically be lost XD

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I was hoping you'd say that ... because now I get to activate my effect which allows me to summon literally every monster in my deck (and some from yours because why not)

Effects aren't standardized, and without any sort of keywords, each card has to spend a large portion of it's very tiny text box explaining what it does. It has to spell out how to special summon, what it can't and can do.

I present to you one of the cleanest MTG cards recently printed:

https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/243084/magic-adventures-in-the-forgotten-realms-adult-gold-dragon-borderless?Language=English

It does so much, but because what it does is hidden behind keywords, it doesn't spend needless amounts of text explaining each.

Magic did used to have complicated effects, like Banding, but got rid of it because it was too complicated.

Shadowplay posted...

Do people even do tribute summons anymore? I was under the impression that power creep has made many old strategies irrelevant.

Flowandereeze because it lets you normal summon 63838383883378282828282 times even during your opponents turn

As someone who plays it daily, I'd say yeah a lot of stuff is needless. If vs when, that vs that target vs it, flipping stuff face down makes it a brand new monster, that sort of stuff is unnecessary.

Also I love teamaps!

Oh god.. Mystical Ref panel and Linear Equation cannon.. Just.. WHY.. also.. fuck mystic Mine

I haven't played Yugioh since the days of Summoned Skull and Mirror Force. Now it seems like you'd need a PhD in TCGs just to know what's going on.

Trickfinger posted...

Kinda annoying how there's no viable way to just play "classic" Yugioh. Would love if that were its own Ranked tier in Master Duel or whatever.

This. Id love a format of metal raiders and everything before it

I used to play it with my friend, and it was fun in its earliest form. Once it became obvious how broken a system with no mana was in terms of unlimited magic cards, there was no turning back lol

Reminds me of when I started to learn magic.

Even back in the early days there was shit like destroy vs bury vs remove from the game.

And it's like "is there really a need for all this shit"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiMwOmKzaFc

I think more different card effects than mostly keywords is a strength. But no mana means many games are decided on turn 1.

why the fuck doesnt yugioh have key words?

refmon posted...

why the fuck doesnt yugioh have key words?

It does. It just doesn't have meaningful ones beyond theming.

Because there aren't many recurring effects that aren't common across an archetype.

Random question but when did you guys get into Yugioh. For me I believe Metal Raiders had just come out.

Trickfinger posted...

Random question but when did you guys get into Yugioh. For me I believe Metal Raiders had just come out.

when the original kaiba starter deck first released

so pretty much day one

i fell out at the start of the snycro era tried to get back in with master duel and just dont have any fun sitting their for 20 minutes wile my oppenent play every card in their deck 10 times

Yeah, YGO became complicated and over the top as shit when every card started to have entire paragraphs on them.

TC's video sums up some funny issues pretty well.

Yeah, I honestly don't see how that could be enjoyable on either player's side.

refmon posted...

why the fuck doesnt yugioh have key words?

It wouldn't work. Most effects have some sort of condition or stipulation that prevents them generalised

Harpie's Brother isn't a "Harpie's" monster, Toad the Jam isn't a "Toad", but Summoned Skull is an "Archfiend" monster and one Joan was a "Noble Knight". Thankfully the first two were reprinted with closer to original names that didn't lead to confusion, Summoned Skull was iconic enough that it was reprinted with clarification text, don't know what happened with the Joan.

The biggest problem with Yugioh isn't the effect text tbh, but the condition text. Effects are simple. "Banish this card, destroy that target, return it to the hand, negate that effect" etc

The conditions are where it gets fucky

"When this card is sent to the GY"
"When this card is destroyed"
"When this card is destroyed and sent to the GY"
"When this card is sent from the hand to the GY"
"If you control no monsters and your opponent controls a monster"
"You can only activate this effect of this card once per turn"
"You can only use one effect of this card per turn, and only once that turn"
"Once per turn, during the main phase or your opponent's battle phase"

"When your opponent activates an effect that includes any of the following effects: add a card from the deck to the hand, special summon a monster from the deck, send a card from the deck to the GY"

Trickfinger posted...

Random question but when did you guys get into Yugioh. For me I believe Metal Raiders had just come out.

I played it when it released here in Canada in 2002. Quit after 2 years and git back into it in 2016 to 2018. Still have my blue eyes deck I collected numerous cards for over the years.

lol

IMO, Yugioh just isn't a very well designed game to begin with. Because of this, you get text boxes that look like paragraphs and funny enough most of the text isn't even about the actual effect itself, but the ruling of it. Like how many times you can use it, when you can use it, when you can't use it, the timing of the use, what is consider the "cost", etc. The reason Yugioh how to do this is because the ruling itself is a fucking mess and without the specifics to the ruling people end up doing a lot of broken shit that Konami didn't want them to do. Don't even get me started on the "chain" system and how convoluted that can get with card interactions. They also created a card game without any resource system to control the tempo of the game, this is why it's not out of the ordinary to see a person reach their end game monster in their first turn because they can essentially play their whole hand and deck if they get the right combo pieces. Anytime Konami did try to slow down the game, they always end up making it worst lol.

Now I know this sounds like I'm overly negative on the game, but in reality this is probably the best way for the game to go. I don't know any other TCG that allows for you to reach the end game in your first turn and allows you to combo so easily like this. It's what stands out from the other TCG's and that's what makes a lot of people love the game, like my friends. It's what makes it unique. Hand traps were probably the best way to control the pace of the game they ever thought of. I've seen my friends combo's get screwed over because my friend timed the hand trap perfectly that ends up fucking them over in the long run.

To me Yugioh is the ultimate "rules were made to be broken" game. It's a contest to see to what degree can a card's effect break the rules.

The main problem comes once you start compounding these effects in a single card. Then it's like well wtf are we even doing if every card can break 5 rules.

I understand everything in the video yikes. I really love Yugioh as a ruleshark game but I also understand why that makes it an unattractive game to pick up lol