Poll of the Day > It's been 3 years since I talked to my parents

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jen0125 posted...

Yeah I am very privileged in a lot of ways. And lucky. I know a lot of ND people with abusive parents and siblings that could never get away like I did and help themselves. It's really a difficult place to be in and I feel a lot of empathy for those people.

Thanks for caring.

EchoBaz posted...

Thanks for caring.

You don't have to thank me for that. You deserve care even from people you barely know online.

Zangulus posted...

My parents didnt. I was forced to figure it out almost entirely on my own. About the only thing they can be credited with is giving me a place to stay and food. Which you dont get brownie points for doing the bare minimum when you create a life.

https://youtu.be/B0B_ekSrsEk?t=18



potdnewb posted...

even if they were a bad example they did raise you to be an almost functional person.

There's a difference between succeeding because of someone and succeeding in spite of someone.

In plenty of cases, kids with shit parents only really become functional humans because there are so many other socializing factors in modern culture. Other relatives, neighbors, teachers, peers, television and media in general, etc. It's not like all children grow up to be feral beasts if their parents aren't there.

Jen0125 posted...

Still waiting to see like why they deserve honor or why I should feel regret from the people who asked.

@AltOmega2 (removed @)pionear

Also I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm truly curious. Sometimes when people say these things they have good intentions but they just don't understand really what it's like. I am earnestly interested in a dialogue, not an argument.

Every parent should be honored. It's not a "deserve" thing.

AltOmega2 posted...

Every parent should be honored. It's not a "deserve" thing.

Why?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Arguably it's a difference in what definition of the word "respect" you're using. Some people may use the word to essentially mean "not being an a****** to someone", but that's not really what it's supposed to mean. Respect is "an attitude of consideration or high regard", "good opinion, honor, or admiration" or even "good will; favor". It's a state above and beyond just simple politeness. It's showing extra deference to someone based on their accomplishments or attitude. It's saying "this is someone worthy of praise".

The problem is that both definitions are used, often near-interchangeably. Even with the definitions you're giving, "good will" is something that I would say everyone should at least try to have for everyone else by default. Yes, assuming the best in people is very often a good way to end up disappointed by them, but on the whole the world around you will still be a better place if you default to treating everyone you meet better than "neutral," with the bare minimum courtesy that's needed to not get punched.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Parents, teachers, and other authority figures who "demand respect" aren't asking to be treated like neutral strangers. They're asking to be treated with a higher degree of regard. They're essentially saying that their opinions and demands are worth more because they're in a higher position. "Do what I say, I'm your parent." "You should listen to me, I'm your teacher." But parents and teachers can be a******s too.

Even then, if there's no other information, I'm inclined to default to respecting that. As a concept, people are in positions of authority because they likely know better. That's not a guarantee, by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not going to default to "nope, not gonna listen to you until you prove that you're worth listening to" when my doctor suggests that I get some bloodwork unless I have reason to believe that the bloodwork is pointless. Those that demand respect and fall back on "because I said so" when appropriately questioned, though, don't deserve to be respected, but that's a response to their failure as opposed to the default state.

Of course, that's probably a product of my upbringing. My parents made a point of encouraging us to question authority when it was appropriate to do so, but to not let that get in the way of listening to authority when that was more appropriate, and to default to listening if we weren't sure. They were, however, happy to discuss why they wanted me to do something after the fact, discussions that would sometimes result in them changing their minds and apologizing for not listening to me. And then as I got older and stopped being a stupid kid, the dynamic shifted and they stopped being authority figures, which helped solidify the idea that they were being reasonable with that approach and helped me draw appropriate boundaries for when I needed to listen to them (which doesn't mean I didn't respect them, since respect doesn't have to mean absolute deference).

In practice, I think we actually agree, you're just framing it with a slightly more misanthropic slant than I am, which is pretty much par for the course for both of us.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yeah, it's going to vary case by case. People that are just plain abusive, who have responded poorly to multiple efforts to point out their abuse and how it's driving you away? That's on them, no sense wasting further effort, emotion, or health trying to bridge the gap.

AltOmega2 posted...

Every parent should be honored. It's not a "deserve" thing.

Why? Can you explain your thought process? It doesn't take skill to have a child.

Like all you have to do is be fertile and get a poot. It takes no thought or skill. Then you can be a parent. What about that requires unquestioning respect?

I'm with PO in this topic. Respect is a two-way street. Demanding others do right by me before I start doing right by them would be the same as others demanding I do right by them before they so much as acknowledge I exist or have something to contribute. I do not do fealty just because someone brought me into this world, or because they came before me in the hobbies I hold dear. I meet people halfway, decide whether I respect the work they do, respect them, or neither at all, and then move forward with my own life; if we mesh, we mesh.

There was a period of time I did have to cut my mom and stepdad out of my life, and thankfully had the means to move to another state in the meantime. My folks are latter-X, former-boomers, who do still try the fealty thing with me, but they learned to respect me as a person in my time away from them. They've helped me out a couple times when I needed it after that point, and it is for our mutual respect for one another I have them in my life now. But when my mom slips into her fealty nonsense or talks shit about the things I hold dear, or tries to conveniently forget certain details about the past, I do call her out with some degree of manners or tact, and she does apologize. They're not the worst I experienced in my years of receiving psychological abuse, and they at least try to be better people than that.

The people who've done nothing but abused me or given me hell? Especially the ones who demanded I "respect" (read: swear fealty towards) them? They're out. Life is better. The world as we know it could have been better, but the quality of what's left of my life is greater than if I tried keeping any of them around.

My parents abused me and allowed my brothers to physically and mentally abuse me. The effects of this abuse ruined my ability to live normally for decades. I helped myself. And they didn't want to help themselves and change too. If I can change so can they. And if they don't want to, why do I need to expose myself to that? I have a relationship with my one full blood brother and it's shaky because my mom pitted us against each other our whole childhoods. As adults, we don't have a close bond and we have issues trusting each other. But we try.

What did you dad do?

HornedLion posted...

What did you dad do?

Can I ask why you are specifically asking about my dad?

Jen0125 posted...

Can I ask why you are specifically asking about my dad?

Im well versed on the drama regarding your mom. Wasnt aware about the dad lore.

just having the strength to survive carrying and birthing a child is praiseworthy

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I've actually met women who genuinely believed women couldn't get pregnant without orgasming. Just in case we need more concrete evidence for sex ed being needed.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

In plenty of cases, kids with s*** parents only really become functional humans because there are so many other socializing factors in modern culture. Other relatives, neighbors, teachers, peers, television and media in general, etc. It's not like all children grow up to be feral beasts if their parents aren't there.

This is what bugs me about the "that's something parents should teach them!" argument against sex ed. If parents are teaching them, sure, it's redundant and you've wasted a bit of teaching time. Many parents don't, though, and that means they need to learn it from somewhere else if they aren't going to learn from their own mistakes, and school is by far the best way to ensure that everyone has the foundation that they need to avoid those mistakes.

potdnewb posted...

just having the strength to survive carrying and birthing a child is praiseworthy

Sure, but that still doesn't mean that child is obligated to sacrifice their physical and mental well-being dealing with abusive or otherwise toxic behaviour to give that praise. For that matter, any women that have children will themselves end up suffering that same ordeal, so even if we do want to insist that they owe some debt to their mothers for suffering it, that debt is wiped out purely by birthing their own children, with absolutely nothing else "owed."

I'm also saying this as somebody who does have a pretty solid relationship with my parents, so I'm not trying to justify my own neglect. I'm not about to pretend that they don't have issues (or didn't, in my dad's case), mostly stemming from the fact that their own parents were abusive in ways they've only recently learned to acknowledge, but I like having my mother in my life (in reasonable doses) and I really miss my dad. I just recognize that that's only because I was lucky enough to come out of the right vagina and that many other people are less fortunate in that regard.

HornedLion posted...

Im well versed on the drama regarding your mom. Wasnt aware about the dad lore.

Oh okay. I didn't know if you were trying to solicit something weird because of who you are.

My dad became physically disabled with MS when I was a young child. After that happened, he depended on my mother for healthcare and daily activities assistance. He is beholden to her for care and will never say no to her or stand up against her even when she's wrong.

He has verbally and physically assaulted me more than once in my life. He allowed his two older sons from a previous marriage to physically and emotionally torment me until I was absolutely mentally ill. As a small child. My brothers actually tortured me and he did nothing to stop them because they were also physically assaulting him. He just let it all happen.

When I became an adult he never made it a point to call ME or text ME. He barely responded to my attempts at private correspondence. He only ever let my mom do all that. He has never tried to actually get to know me or be a friend or real father to me.

potdnewb posted...

just having the strength to survive carrying and birthing a child is praiseworthy

Getting through birth =/= parenting

Jen0125 posted...

Oh okay. I didn't know if you were trying to solicit something weird because of who you are.

My dad became physically disabled with MS when I was a young child. After that happened, he depended on my mother for healthcare and daily activities assistance. He is beholden to her for care and will never say no to her or stand up against her even when she's wrong.

He has verbally and physically assaulted me more than once in my life. He allowed his two older sons from a previous marriage to physically and emotionally torment me until I was absolutely mentally ill. As a small child. My brothers actually tortured me and he did nothing to stop them because they were also physically assaulting him. He just let it all happen.

When I became an adult he never made it a point to call ME or text ME. He barely responded to my attempts at private correspondence. He only ever let my mom do all that. He has never tried to actually get to know me or be a friend or real father to me.

Damn. Im sorry.

Glad youre happy now, though.

Makes me want to hug my little girls now.

Oh okay. I didn't know if you were trying to solicit something weird because of who you are.

Im not a bad guy. Its just PotD takes things too seriously sometimes and it makes me want to use that for my entertainment.

I just meant your general affect here. I thought you were trying solicit something sexual about my dad. Which I didn't want to respond to.

adjl posted...

This is what bugs me about the "that's something parents should teach them!" argument against sex ed. If parents are teaching them, sure, it's redundant and you've wasted a bit of teaching time.

The problem with sex ed is that we usually teach it too late to do any good even when we do teach it. By the time I had it as a class in high school, there was already at least one girl in my grade who'd had a kid, and a fair few other kids who'd been having sex for a while. Most of us had already picked up all the pertinent details from friends or porn, and while we were aware of ideas like "safe sex" and "abstinence" and "you're going to ruin your life if you get pregnant as a teenager, you idiot", it's not like most of us were paying any real attention. Everyone assumes they're the indestructible main character when they're a kid - "That's never going to happen to me."

By the time even good parents think it's time to have "The Talk", their kid has probably picked up a ton of information already, and are mostly going to ignore whatever their parents want to talk about because "Yeah, I already know it all".

We basically need to try and teach kids early enough that it actually helps, but not so early that it's kind of meaningless to them (which means they won't internalize any of it). The ideal would be figuring out the perfect age to teach as well as the perfect way to teach it without being too clinical (which kids will ignore because it's boring or uncool) or too awkward (which kids will ignore because it's embarrassing).

Like with a lot of things in school, we shouldn't necessarily be teaching rote facts and details as much as encouraging ways of thinking. But that's a difficult teaching model to apply to sex ed as a concept.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

We basically need to try and teach kids early enough that it actually helps, but not so early that it's kind of meaningless to them (which means they won't internalize any of it). The ideal would be figuring out the perfect age to teach as well as the perfect way to teach it without being too clinical (which kids will ignore because it's boring or uncool) or too awkward (which kids will ignore because it's embarrassing).

This is why a lot of newer sex ed curricula start in kindergarten (at which point it's pretty much just "bad touch," though even that has been found to dramatically increase the likelihood of catching sexual abusers) and gradually introduce new concepts over subsequent years. That way, you make sure everyone has age-appropriate information before it's needed, plus you've normalized it to avoid the "not listening because it's awkward" issue.

Of course, despite exhaustive data indicating that comprehensive and early sex ed yields clear benefits in pretty much every metric of population sexual health, the usual suspects just clutch their pearls and cry about grooming and push to revert to curricula that haven't been updated since 1974, so actually reaping those benefits is hard.

Jen0125 posted...

Why should I feel bad if they suddenly die?

My mom did something to me publicly on Facebook for attention from her friends that was really the straw that broke the camels back. What caused it was a lifetime of family abuse and then a complete lack of remorse or acknowledgement of any responsibility from my parents. I don't need that in my life.

Not to say that their prior abuse is excusable, but be careful about the finality of your words. There may come a day when you're older and regretful of what you're thinking right now. Your verbiage sounds like that of an angry 20-something who may not be seeing clearly just yet.

We had our first sex ed class in public school in NY back in the 90s in 5th grade. They taught us about basic sex practices, how to keep ourselves safe and then girls had a separate class to teach us about periods and give us a small sample of hygiene products. Sexual education in New York is comprehensive. You are required to take a health class in 9th grade as well that has a whole segment on sex ed.

doshindude posted...

Not to say that their prior abuse is excusable, but be careful about the finality of your words. There may come a day when you're older and regretful of what you're thinking right now.

Can you tell me what I should be regretting? I ask this of everyone who says this to me and they never respond.

In regards to your edit, I'm a 34 year old adult lmao. I'm not some angsty teenager.

We had stuff on puberty and sex and whatnot in grade 6, but I think I was out sick for the actual sex talk (though I'd gotten it from my parents like 3 years prior, so it was nothing I didn't already know). 7-9 had health classes that also included some sex ed, then there was one more health class we had to take some time in high school that I had in grade 10.

They show a child birthing video in every single health class you have to take. You have to take health class in middle school and high school. In NY at least it was like that when I was in grade school.

Jen0125 posted...

Can you tell me what I should be regretting? I ask this of everyone who says this to me and they never respond.

In regards to your edit, I'm a 34 year old adult lmao. I'm not some angsty teenager.

Perspective changes when family members die.

Think long and hard about that. Maybe you're too young to know.

doshindude posted...

Perspective changes when family members die.

Think long and hard about that. Maybe you're too young to know.

Lmao you are very condescending and naive. I'm glad you don't know what it feels like to be in this situation.

If anyone should feel regret it is the parent. Not the child. I didn't do anything wrong. I've protected myself.

I feel regret I was born when I didn't ask to a couple that had no business having kids causing me to have a seriously stunted start in life. And all of that was out of my control so the regret is baseless.

Why would I ever regret stopping myself from being consistently emotionally and physically abused by my parents? Make it make sense.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Like am I supposed to have some supernatural connection to someone just because they gave birth to me? Lmao like it doesn't make sense

It's so annoying when people try to superimpose their relationship with their parents into the advice they give you on parents. If people need to cut their parents off, it's a hard thing to do, and obviously necessary at times.

doshindude posted...

Perspective changes when family members die.

Think long and hard about that. Maybe you're too young to know.

oh yeah I miss my shitty grandma so much ohhh noooooo, I should've wasted more time kissing her ass!

ReturnOfFa posted...

It's so annoying when people try to superimpose their relationship with their parents into the advice they give you on parents. If people need to cut their parents off, it's a hard thing to do, and obviously necessary at times.

It's annoying when people condescend to me and act like I'm a child because I decided enough was enough lol. It takes way more strength and thought to breakaway than it does to allow it to continue.

ReturnOfFa posted...

oh yeah I miss my shitty grandma so much ohhh noooooo, I should've wasted more time kissing her ass!

My family laughs when we hear news my grandmother might pass away soon. That's how awful she is.

Jen0125 posted...

It's annoying when people condescend to me and act like I'm a child because I decided enough was enough lol. It takes way more strength and thought to breakaway than it does to allow it to continue.

It's also hilarious that people continue to use the 'you must be too young to understand' quip from the time you're born until you die. I'm 31 and get it from losers in their 60s. Thanks, but your life actually blows.

ReturnOfFa posted...

It's also hilarious that people continue to use the 'you must be too young to understand' quip from the time you're born until you die. I'm 31 and get it from losers in their 60s. Thanks, but your life actually blows.

Yeah I'm 34. It took me decades to be able to get out of it. Therapy gave me the strength. I made a difficult and educated decision and my life is so much better for it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Righteous!

my sex ed teacher just walked around naked all class super weird

any plans for marriage and kids?

accord posted...

any plans for marriage and kids?

No. I don't see the point of a contract to be in a relationship and I'm not having kids.