Board 8 > Post your hot takes regarding Danganronpa

(+) Yeah! (+)

Making the minigame from V3 into a full game was a good idea, actually.

(Not going to defend the actual execution of that, but still!)

Paratroopa1 posted...

Nagito is the best character in the series, bar none

If this is a hot take then I'm absolutely all-in on it as well but I didn't think it was. Same with a few other takes in the topic I agree with but felt were pretty common (like thinking the double murders were missed opportunities to have a killer escape punishment by Monokuma rules lawyering and the cast having to deal with knowing one of them literally committed murder before)

We might be leaving "hot take zone" and entering "criticism zone" but I don't like that the v3 cast makes a heroic sacrifice and then survives. The enclosure collapsed on them and all 3 survived. Also is it even a heroic sacrifice or are they just so mad at Tsumugi that they're willing to kill themselves at her? I initially disagreed with the "apologizes for suicide" take but I'm thinking about it more and wellllll

FoolFantastic posted...

Is everything implied to be written? I thought the whole idea was they invented these characters and prodded them in certain directions, but they were ultimately still the ones acting on those signals.

You're right. I partially rewatched chapter 6. The characters were made into unscripted reality TV personalities, not scripted cartoon characters. Presumably they didn't account for all the possibilities, so the characters were able to rebel. I still don't like this twist. I do like that the characters are determined to go on living afterwards.

MacArrowny posted...

But... it's not all fake in-universe. V3 takes place in a separate world from the previous DR stuff, where DR is a recurring game.

The scale of the two anime and the manga and UDG and the books etc. wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I know basically nothing outside the 3 main games, but v3 seems to definitively state that "The Outside World" is the same place in all 3 games. V3 is season 53 of a TV show. Danganronpa 1, 2, and 3 were the first 3 seasons. The cast of V3 was the 53rd group of Japanese high school students to go through an audition process where the winners got their memories wiped and joined a killing game.

IIRC wasn't V3 a bit ambiguous on whether Tsugumi was telling them the complete truth about their lives? Or I dunno, maybe they just kinda lost some coherence at the end there and it's just some plot holes and such.

I always thought hating Nagito was the hot take

I don't know if "Leon is the only good execution in the series" is a hot take or not, but I know it set me up for perpetual disappointment by being so brutal and not tainted by Monokuma's dumb sense of humor

I thought loving Nagito was the hot take honestly, especially given that "I hate Nagito" was the most prevalent opinion on page 1

As someone who recently completed DRV3, the implication I took from it is that DR1 and 2 are just TV shows, too, and happened the same way DRV3 did. I didn't really get any suggestion that Tsumugi and Monokuma just lied about the whole thing.

Paratroopa1 posted...

I thought loving Nagito was the hot take honestly, especially given that "I hate Nagito" was the most prevalent opinion on page 1

I thought it was the most contrary opinion I had (which is why I posted it right away), but maybe the fanbase's preferences have changed over the years!

Leonhart4 posted...

As someone who recently completed DRV3, the implication I took from it is that DR1 and 2 are just TV shows, too, and happened the same way DRV3 did. I didn't really get any suggestion that Tsumugi and Monokuma just lied about the whole thing.

I generally agree with this but I'd read some theories - and maybe they're just coping/fan rewrites of the ending a la Indoctrination Theory - I dunno but they sound plausible enough that I can understand questioning it.

it doesn't help that a lot of it relies on cospox lmao

Like Tsumugi can cosplay as the old DR1/2 cast just fine but couldn't cosplay as the the V3 one in Case 1? I mean maybe she just faked cospox by cheating by being the mastermind but if it's al lthe same shouldn't *all* the characters be in the same bag and she can't cosplay the old casts?

Also some weirdness with the prologue before they get their "Ultimate" upgrades don't seem to match with Tsumugi's story but again you can cover this up as some kind of multi-level fake for no obvious reason other than to mess with the player using Flashback Light memory rewriting.

I'm cool with the ending but it definitely feels like they sacrificed coherency and consistency in the plot to make their point.

Leonhart4 posted...

I always thought hating Nagito was the hot take

I don't know if "Leon is the only good execution in the series" is a hot take or not, but I know it set me up for perpetual disappointment by being so brutal and not tainted by Monokuma's dumb sense of humor

In v3, are you separating the Monokubs from the students? Because the students in v3 get executed in brutal horrible ways. I would not want to die like Kaede, Kirumi, Kiyo, or Gonta.

Thorn posted...

IIRC wasn't V3 a bit ambiguous on whether Tsugumi was telling them the complete truth about their lives? Or I dunno, maybe they just kinda lost some coherence at the end there and it's just some plot holes and such.

I think it might technically be ambiguous, but at the beginning of the game no one has any memories and no one's dressed like ultimates because they woke up before they were supposed to. When the game starts Kaede goes from "i have no idea who i am" to "oh right, kaede akamatsu." So it's possible that they gave them a bunch of true memories, but I don't think so.

Wasn't the explanation that the series started as a work of fiction in-universe, and then was turned into a reality competition after DR3? That's how I remember it.

Disliking Nagito is absolutely the hot take, regardless of my own stance on him. Anybody who thinks otherwise never had a Tumblr. The man was the Sans Undertale of his era.

DanKirby posted...

Wasn't the explanation that the series started as a work of fiction in-universe, and then was turned into a reality competition after DR3? That's how I remember it.

Yeah, Shuichi's lab has books filled with case files, implied to be from the other 52 killing games. He notes that they start out as drawings in the earlier volumes, and become pictures in the later volumes.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Disliking Nagito is absolutely the hot take, regardless of my own stance on him. Anybody who thinks otherwise never had a Tumblr. The man was the Sans Undertale of his era.

I mean, I EXTREMELY don't care about weird tumblr simps, that's not my circle. Within my circles I feel like it's slightly more common to dislike Nagito than to like him.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

I know basically nothing outside the 3 main games, but v3 seems to definitively state that "The Outside World" is the same place in all 3 games. V3 is season 53 of a TV show. Danganronpa 1, 2, and 3 were the first 3 seasons.

Yeah, you can't really comment if you don't know the content outside of the main 3 games.

Leonhart4 posted...

As someone who recently completed DRV3, the implication I took from it is that DR1 and 2 are just TV shows, too, and happened the same way DRV3 did. I didn't really get any suggestion that Tsumugi and Monokuma just lied about the whole thing.

They're fictional in the DRV3 universe, just like they're games in our universe. DR1 and the other games/series take place in a separate universe from our universe or DRV3's universe, though.

My understanding was that DR1 and DR 2 were video games, DR3 was an anime, and everything after them was the reality show, but I could have misunderstood.

My personal headcanon is that 1-3 were staged stories where nobody actually died. Then the fanbase got out of hand and it gradually shifted into the reality TV show, where the cast members started committing actual murders.

Gundam is unlikable and overdramatic for no reason.

Then again, the cast of 2 is generally pretty freaking unlikable, so that's not saying too much.

The series does not how to execute a good finale (chapter 6) to their games. At best, there's a lot of potential in each but are let down by bad or nonsensical writing and other factors.

paulg235 posted...

The series does not how to execute a good finale (chapter 6) to their games. At best, there's a lot of potential in each but are let down by bad or nonsensical writing and other factors.

I've pretty much accepted that one doesn't play Danganronpa for the finale. I recently wrote a fanfic -- five full trials and everything -- and I just put zero effort into the ending because that isn't the focus.

Thorn posted...

I generally agree with this but I'd read some theories - and maybe they're just coping/fan rewrites of the ending a la Indoctrination Theory - I dunno but they sound plausible enough that I can understand questioning it.

it doesn't help that a lot of it relies on cospox lmao

Like Tsumugi can cosplay as the old DR1/2 cast just fine but couldn't cosplay as the the V3 one in Case 1? I mean maybe she just faked cospox by cheating by being the mastermind but if it's al lthe same shouldn't *all* the characters be in the same bag and she can't cosplay the old casts?

Also some weirdness with the prologue before they get their "Ultimate" upgrades don't seem to match with Tsumugi's story but again you can cover this up as some kind of multi-level fake for no obvious reason other than to mess with the player using Flashback Light memory rewriting.

I'm cool with the ending but it definitely feels like they sacrificed coherency and consistency in the plot to make their point.

In retrospect, the dumbest thing about V3-6 is that Shuichi learns that Tsumugi can cosplay as students from past seasons, and he immediately galaxy brains to everything is fiction. When of course, the more rational conclusion to make is that cospox was a load of bullshit that only served to ensure that the mastermind wouldn't be suspected of every crime because of their talent. Especially considering that the only person who ever saw the cospox symptoms is dead at that point (even if the player saw it through Kaede).

Nanis23 posted...

Oh wow this is a easy one

Ultra Despair Girls is a good game

I have another one

DR3 (The anime) was good, too

DR3 the show was a mixed bag.

The Despair Arc is trash, no forgiving that wasted potential. It actively harms DR2.

Now the future arc, I go back and forth on. It's really an episode to episode basis. I like Juzo a lot, though.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

DR3 the show was a mixed bag.

The Despair Arc is trash, no forgiving that wasted potential. It actively harms DR2.

Now the future arc, I go back and forth on. It's really an episode to episode basis. I like Juzo a lot, though.

Oh? interesting. IIRC most people thought about this the other way around (Future being trash, and Despair being great)
Personally I really liked Despair in general, but in future I liked the mystery itself (who is killing who, who will die etc)

Despair Arc should have been so much more, but it kind of shit's all over everything. All the covered plot beats from the game that were translated from game to show were handled without any care. They basically make no attempt to have actual day to day DR2 character activities outside of the fucking....horny soup scene or whatever that was. It was a total bait and switch of an arc.

The implication of what lead to the DR2 characters becoming the remnants of despair IRL at the end of the game, as well as what they did, was some absolutely heinous shit, and it barely scraped the tip of the iceberg of how bad shit went down. But in DR3....it was a fucking hypnosis video? Junko supposedly individually tortured these kinds into being the remnants with personalized despair based on DR2 dialog, not this crap. Everything around the ultimate animator plotline is fucking embarrasing.

I tend to just pretend Despair Arc never happened. Even *bad* fanfiction of that backstory tends to do a better job.

Strife2 posted...

Nagito and Kokichi would be fine if they would shut the f*** up for five seconds. We get it, you're SO awesome and evil and the world sucks. There's a point where a great character idea gets driven into the ground by overexposure.

Nagito especially would be a much better character if his line count was halved. Possibly even lower.

MacArrowny posted...

Yeah, you can't really comment if you don't know the content outside of the main 3 games.

My hot take is that since the first 2 games were practically identical, you shouldn't have to watch animes and play shooters to answer basic questions like "did the story even happen." Like if Rogue One made no sense unless you played a video game, that would be a mistake. DR2 could've been a shooter or an anime but it was DR1 again. This conveys that DR1-likes are core to the series

I mean I guess the fact that it's called "Danganronpa 3" should clue you in, but i don't want to watch an anime, i want to play DR1-likes

masterplum posted...

It kind of sucks.

Everything it tries to do other games have done better.

^This

It's edgy misery porn masquerading as Walmart-brand Phoenix Wright

NeatoAnAccount posted...

My hot take is that since the first 2 games were practically identical, you shouldn't have to watch animes and play shooters to answer basic questions like "did the story even happen."

I'll back you up on this one, I'm kinda tired of "you don't REALLY know the franchise until you've done these 20 spinoffs" style worlds

heck I watched the anime and dabbled in some other stuff and I'm not sure how that's supposed to tell me anything about reality

I think DR2 and V3 are astoundingly better than DR1, but they certainly aren't astoundingly different. If you fundamentally hated DR1 as a video game and not specifically because of plot/character reasons, minor improvements in later entries to the mechanics aren't going to change much for you, and that's coming from a hardcore fanboy of the series.

On the spinoff note, I don't think you have to play UDG or watch DR3 at all. Neither of these products come close to the main games or are necessary, as much as I like the Komaru/Toko UDG stuff on it's own.

I played these games for the mystery/problem solving and found DR1 too simple, DR2 great and DRV3 just getting repetitive. Somehow there is always a double murder in case 3 and the big person always dies in case 4

I enjoy the mini games throughout DR. Admittedly, I watched DR1 and DR2 but I liked them in V3!

Now I'm imagining a series where every numbered entry is *extremely* different

Episode 1 is a shooter, episode 2 is a movie, episode 3 is a board game...

Honestly I think that could've been more fun

NeatoAnAccount posted...

Now I'm imagining a series where every numbered entry is *extremely* different

Episode 1 is a shooter, episode 2 is a movie, episode 3 is a board game...

Honestly I think that could've been more fun

only someone who hasn't played UDG and watched the anime would say this...

I never thought a Danganronpa game could be boring, but UDG is so uninteresting.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

I played these games for the mystery/problem solving and found DR1 too simple, DR2 great and DRV3 just getting repetitive. Somehow there is always a double murder in case 3 and the big person always dies in case 4

Fun fact: Mid-case three, I predicted Angie and Tenko would die. based on their actions during the case (Angie going even more insane, Tenko pretending to go insane). Post case 3, I predicted the entire rest of the game. I don't remember where I wrote this, but it went something like this.

Hinata has been tortured two cases in a row and had a major growth spurt. She survives.
Maki is Fuyuhiko. Standoffish with a criminal background. She survives.
Miu has outlived her usefulness. She'll be killed by Gonta, hopefully in some sort of accident because Gonta's not a bad guy.
Kaito is Chiaki. He'll be the case 5 killer
Kokichi is Nagito. He'll be the case 5 victim
If the mastermind is among the players, it's Tsumugi. She's been in the background since case 1 and has no real qualities to her. The only other option is Keebo, but that's ROBOPHOBIC.

I pretty much had Keebo living by a matter of POE, though they suicided him at the end so I guess that was a thing.

DR3 is basically just DR2 reskinned. You have the exact same niches just being filled by different characters. I thought Maki was a lock to survive the moment her assassin reveal hit at the end of case 2.

I feel like DR for all it's twists was an incredibly predictable series, and also a series with tons of wasted potential because of all the times they played it safe when they could've gone further. Case 3 in DR3 being the most glaring example. It was obvious as hell Kiyo killed Tenko because only he would be in position to take advantage of his own creation. I was just hoping someone else killed Angie. Nope. Cowards.

Oh also I had this crazy conspiracy theory for a while that Kaede didn't actually die for some reason because while you saw blood after her execution, you never actually saw the body. I was wondering if anything would ever come of that, too... And nope.

MacArrowny posted...

only someone who hasn't played UDG and watched the anime would say this...

They missed the boat by making DR2 identical to the first, and then the third main game identical to the first 2, and giving the third identical game a name that sounds like "version 3"

I hope everyone complaining about how the stories intentionally mirror eachother in their beats REALLY hate MGS2.

MGS2 was not a mystery game.

I don't play DR games to be mystery games either. I really could not care less about trying to predict the story as I go, I hate doing that in EVERY VN. I am along for the ride, trying to sit there and notepad my theories has never brought me any joy.

If I was one of those people who took notes as I was playing Umineko, it wouldn't be my favorite video game of all time.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Now the future arc, I go back and forth on. It's really an episode to episode basis. I like Juzo a lot, though.

Oh, this is another. Juzo is a fantastic character.

Also yeah, I'm not sure where this "You need to see/read the other stuff outside of the games to get the games" came from, it's not true at all. It expands on certain things, and some of it is interesting, but it's not at all like, mandatory. The extra stuff can give you more context to understand some theories and such, but those are just theories. When it comes to the core story, you only need the main three games.

I actually don't know if liking Juzo is a hot take. DR3 doesn't exactly get a lot of discussion even amongst DR fans, other than the discussion of "is it shit or not". When it was AIRING, at least in the first half, there was quite a bit, then uhhhh....yeah.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I actually don't know if liking Juzo is a hot take. DR3 doesn't exactly get a lot of discussion even amongst DR fans, other than the discussion of "is it shit or not". When it was AIRING, at least in the first half, there was quite a bit, then uhhhh....yeah.

At the time, reaction to him was definitely mixed. I'm not sure which direction it has gone since then.

V3 is the best Danganronpa game

OrangeCrush980 posted...

V3 is the best Danganronpa game

I'm actually torn on this, personally. I'm not sure if I'd say it has the best story or characters, but it DOES have the best content with the side games, so I may call it the best game overall, yeah.

StealThisSheen posted...

At the time, reaction to him was definitely mixed. I'm not sure which direction it has gone since then.

This is not surprising, since the show WANTED you to hate him for quite a while!

I have an extremely severe weakness for characters that a show or game goes out of the way to make look like/actually be the worst, only to have them wake up and try to fix things, or have it revealed that wasn't the case. It's not quite a redemption story thing, since I actually don't like this when the characters in question were just straight up villains, but it's close.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

This is not surprising, since the show WANTED you to hate him for quite a while!

I have an extremely severe weakness for characters that a show or game goes out of the way to make look like/actually be the worst, only to have them wake up and try to fix things, or have it revealed that wasn't the case. It's not quite a redemption story thing, since I actually don't like this when the characters in question were just straight up villains, but it's close.

I think it helps that Juzo's story in particular is SO GOOD and quite relatable, since his reasoning for everything he does is blatantly spelled out, and none of it is over the top or anything.

I like all 3 of the main Future trio in the DR3 anime. Kyosuke is likable in a dumb way, Chisa is likable in the Despair arc, and Juzo is likable all around.

Honestly, if DR3 had just been an entirely original anime only DR story that wasn't trying to be this fucked up mediocre conclusion to the "DR 1-3 Arc", it could have actually had some merit based on some of the original characters involved. Even keep the future arc setting with the mostly adult characters.

....In fact, I know it could have worked, because Akudama Drive was a great anime!