Current Events > "Russia is just defending itself"

(+) Yeah! (+)

ROBANN_88 posted...

the Social Democrats and V were staunchly anti-NATO for even months after the invasion...up until they realised it wasn't politically beneficial.
and as soon as Turkey started to push back they went right back to their "i told you we shouldn't have bid to join it" rhetoric.
when "We will never join NATO as long as i sit on this parliamnent" no longer got them votes, they flipped to "me sitting here is instrumental to the NATO process" and i suspect they're ready to flip again at a moments notice if they think it will benefit them

https://www.europaportalen.se/2022/06/undersokning-mest-och-rysslandskritiska-i-eu-parlamentet

"SD were the most critical party, while V is the least critical against Russia"

V have always supported dictators and been against NATO, it wasnt long ago that they praised the dictator in Venezuela.

ROBANN_88 posted...

the Social Democrats and V were staunchly anti-NATO for even months after the invasion...up until they realised it wasn't politically beneficial.
and as soon as Turkey started to push back they went right back to their "i told you we shouldn't have bid to join it" rhetoric.
when "We will never join NATO as long as i sit on this parliamnent" no longer got them votes, they flipped to "me sitting here is instrumental to the NATO process" and i suspect they're ready to flip again at a moments notice if they think it will benefit them

Yeah. V have been anti NATO the whole time, I don't deny that. S haven't. They've been pushing to join. I'm saying that it's unfair to paint V as pro Russia because of it. Which, again, I think you know.

ROBANN_88 posted...

"SD were the most critical party, while V is the least critical against Russia"

Europaportalen? Votewatch? "Bestmdhet gentemot Ryssland"? What is this? It looks incredibly cherry picked.
I think you're also well aware of SDs close ties with Russia, not just the whole Putilov mess, but also how they've sent election observers etc. Additionally, some of the biggest lobbying firms (e.g., Kreab) were knee deep into the Russian market, but then suddenly everything was forgotten. And there's also the part where Sveriges Hamnar tried to break the blockade that the workers put up against Russian ships. Guess which parties were on which side?

In the end I don't like parliamentary politics much, nor the parties, but you have to do a lot of cherry picking to paint V as the most friendly towards Russia with the ties SD and lobbyists had, and with the way Nringslivet kept pushing for trade despite workers' shows of solidarity.

scar_the_1 posted...

And there's also the part where Sveriges Hamnar tried to break the blockade that the workers put up against Russian ships. Guess which parties were on which side?

Oh, i had forgotten about that load of crap

Won't someone please think of the invading army!?

UnfairRepresent posted...

Won't someone please think of the invading army!?

republicans: that's what we've been saying all along!

ROBANN_88 posted...

Oh, i had forgotten about that load of crap

Yeah. There's been a lot of crap going on in national politics lately :)

kinetika_ posted...

I don't know what conservatives you claim to think Russia are the good guys in this situation because the ones around here, and I am around some very extreme Trump supporters, hate Russia, and Putin, and wish the USA would just go to war with them lol.

Trump himself was praising Putin as a genius at the start of the invasion and suggested we should do the same to Mexico.

VoightKent posted...

You do know this war was going on a decade ago right

Russia invaded both times.

Revelation34 posted...

Russia invaded both times.

Shh. Also dont mention South Ossetia or Abkhazia.

The right winger traitors, and Russia lovers

Putin should not be in office how about that

Are we still blaming NATO and the USA for this invasion?

VeggetaX posted...

Are we still playing NATO and the USA for this invasion?

Playing NATO? Wat?

NATO and the US do bear significant responsibility for creating the socioeconomic conditions that lead to Russia's recent ongoing invasion of Ukraine, yes

averagejoel posted...

NATO and the US do bear significant responsibility for creating the socioeconomic conditions that lead to Russia's recent ongoing invasion of Ukraine, yes

man, fuck off with this bullshit

I don't know about American companies. But Swedish arms manufacturer stocks skyrocketed when Russia invaded.

averagejoel posted...

NATO and the US do bear significant responsibility for creating the socioeconomic conditions that lead to Russia's recent ongoing invasion of Ukraine, yes

Shut the fuck up

DoesntMatter posted...

man, fuck off with this bullshit

I'm sorry that you don't like me acknowledging the objective reality of the situation here, but that doesn't mean it's bullshit

averagejoel posted...

NATO and the US do bear significant responsibility for creating the socioeconomic conditions that lead to Russia's recent ongoing invasion of Ukraine, yes

found the Russian bot.

https://youtu.be/0nVg_ZOfCso
Bear = Russia
Truck owner = Ukraine
Mad honey = communism

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


probably not

averagejoel posted...

NATO and the US do bear significant responsibility for creating the socioeconomic conditions that lead to Russia's recent ongoing invasion of Ukraine, yes

I just wanted to say, I admire your consistency on being consistently obtuse while lacking any sort of facts or argument to augment your positions.

You're the best opposition anybody supporting positions opposite your own could ask for. You're like a living caricature of the strawmen that are portrayed online.

scar_the_1 posted...

I don't know about American companies. But Swedish arms manufacturer stocks skyrocketed when Russia invaded.

I knew i should have bought stocks
Weapons is where the money is

s0nicfan posted...

So has anybody pointed out yet that Russia invading and annexing parts of Georgia in 2008 and stealing Crimea in 2014 is justification enough for wanting to join a defensive alliance?

Read through the topic and haven't seen anyone talk about that yet. I was going to bring up that you won't have a fully informed opinion and will think that comic is bologna unless you understand the major political events that took place in Ukraine in the 2010's. I also implore you draw sources that are lean across the political spectrum because people will leave out critical details to paint a specific narrative.

I do recommend starting with looking at Oliver Stone's interview in Lex Friedman's podcast as he got a chance to interview Putin in the 2010's over it (and of course, find some sources that speak about what information Stone could be omitting).

ROBANN_88 posted...

I knew i should have bought stocks
Weapons is where the money is

https://youtu.be/qsMc-IswG3w

Foppe posted...

https://youtu.be/qsMc-IswG3w

i was thinking more that i've been watching Star Trek DS9, and that was roughly a Quark quote, when talking about his cousin, the weapons dealer

ROBANN_88 posted...

i was thinking more that i've been watching Star Trek DS9, and that was roughly a Quark quote, when talking about his cousin, the weapons dealer

Selma also cashed in on arms stock before marrying Sideshow Bob.
I wonder if it is a trope.

The general idea is that Russia's geopolitics aren't formed in a vacuum. That doesn't mean that Russian geopolitics in a vacuum would have been good, or that Putin is not to blame for his choices. His hands weren't tied at any point, he's made all these choices. But he's not alone in forming the geopolitical situation.

shockthemonkey posted...

So you dont think that political cartoon is bologna?

So you don't think the war is more nuanced than "Russia evil, Ukraine innocent"?

averagejoel posted...

recognizing that russia was threatened by nato encroachment is not equivalent to thinking they're justified in invading ukraine

Well, damn.

I actually agree with you on that. Anyway, I believe a lot of people would rather ignore the nuance you presented.

scar_the_1 posted...

The general idea is that Russia's geopolitics aren't formed in a vacuum. That doesn't mean that Russian geopolitics in a vacuum would have been good, or that Putin is not to blame for his choices. His hands weren't tied at any point, he's made all these choices. But he's not alone in forming the geopolitical situation.

but Russias empirical past is much more responsible for the geopolitical status in the area than the US is

I just want to know how, exactly, NATO expansion threatens Russia. Do they think NATO is going to launch a first strike and purposely start WW3? Because the only other threat I can see is to prevent Russia from invading neighboring countries to expand its territory

thronedfire2 posted...

I just want to know how, exactly, NATO expansion threatens Russia. Do they think NATO is going to launch a first strike and purposely start WW3? Because the only other threat I can see is to prevent Russia from invading neighboring countries to expand its territory

Russia was opposed to Ukraine joining NATO because then the US would be setting up military bases in Ukraine, which would be at Russia's border. My memory is a bit foggy on the stipulations regarding joining NATO, but if a country in the NATO alliance was to be in a war, all NATO allies must support the country.

So naturally you can compare this to a scenario of if Mexico had a similar partnership with China, the US would be up at arms if at the agreement that would allow China to setup military bases right at the border of the US.

A general note of when it comes to politics and negotiation, you don't want to do any action you wouldn't want your opponent to do if they were in power.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

GET EM

BurmesePenguin posted...

A lot of self-described socialists think this drivel.

You know most of us self described socialists hate Russia, right?

thronedfire2 posted...

but Russias empirical past is much more responsible for the geopolitical status in the area than the US is

I don't think that's a very interesting or even verifiable statement. Like how would you even measure something like that? But as citizens of one state or another, the most relevant part isn't "who's the most responsible", but rather "what role does my country play in this?" IMO. Joel is American (afaik) so it stands to reason that he'd be critical of and unhappy with his leadership's contribution in this mess. And hey! Maybe he's not a fan of Putin either. You could always ask.