Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 8 - Lakad matataaaag (Normalin, normalin)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Leafeon13N posted...

Also to celebrate my scum victory I'm going to Disneyland(full disclosure I was going anyway).

It just always seems to work out this way.

Lol you go red! Have a good time

Hbthebattle posted...

now, in regards to scum not deserving to win - yeah, probably. however, neither did anyone else in that last few days other than Poppy. Massive props for doing super well as a 3rd party SK in a new community.

Every faction sucked this game. Lolol. Everyone deserved to lose. Needed an atomic bomb in this game.

Well I for one enjoyed the game. I think I definitely coasted by but was vital in the Sultan lynch which was strong enough to keep me coasting. and then other situations just left me to be dealt with later.

fuxk you hb. I deserved to win. lol

Obellisk posted...

Well I for one enjoyed the game. I think I definitely coasted by but was vital in the Sultan lynch which was strong enough to keep me coasting. and then other situations just left me to be dealt with later.

Now now. I said you were just bumping along and moreso just narrating the game than playing it day 1 and lopen said you were definitely town and the most logical town voice in the game or something lol.

Obellisk posted...

fuxk you hb. I deserved to win. lol

what was even your win condition?

Corrik7 posted...

Now now. I said you were just bumping along and moreso just narrating the game than playing it day 1 and lopen said you were definitely town and the most logical town voice in the game or something lol.

100%. I did struggle to get more involved seeing as how I wasn't town but felt it was easier to bump along not having knowledge of anyone's alignment.

Hbthebattle posted...

what was even your win condition?

I win when only independents are left.

I took the pluralization as ambiguity. didn't realize it legit meant there were multiple indys

BTW, This was my 3rd game as indy. I am now 2 and 1.

Win as Ultros in Ff6
Win as Varys in GoT
Loss as Roshan in Dota2

Okay, before I post my thoughts and final flavor, may I say one thing:

Chill the hell out. I fully acknowledge I, as the host, fucked up a few things. I do have a bit of a writeup that I have planned bits and pieces on as the game went on, and I'll post it either here or elsewhere.

The timeskip for what happened with the Red hammer is confusing, but what it boils down to is:
Both Ulti and the Hammerer kill Roshan.
Roshan grants Aegis and Aghanim's Shard to one random killer (Ulti)
Ulti upgrades his role to jailkeeper and attempts to use it on red at night to roleblock; fails, as Red has a Linken's Lotus Sphere.
Time fast forwards 12 hours later, and a tie vote occurs, which Ulti loses, or we utilize the "scum equals or outnumbers town" rule.

OR, BECAUSE THAT IS DUMB
Both Ulti and the Hammerer kill Roshan.
The Hammerer claims the Aegis and an Aghanim's Shard.
See the "scum equals or outnumbers town" rule again, but if not;
Red nightkills Ulti.

In both situations:
Roshan is stuck resurrecting, and cannot win while dead. Game state ends before that time.

Booooooo

that ending sucks.

give us the ending where I win. lol

I will say that as a detached viewer, I thought Lopen wasn't Town for the whole game, was very confused when Ctes got lynched first, felt smug, and then realised what happened on the flip. Poppy and SBell had solid games for their roles, but Scum Red won it in the most Red way possible. Guess that's the "play the game not the setup" moment for this one because the dude had no business outliving both Ctes and Lopen. The first person I'd want on a scumteam to make a plan for something as convoluted as this setup is Red, though. He played to his own strengths and nobody really pressured him after the claims. Hard to call it entirely undeserved when nobody made him work for it during the day phase (as understandable as the decision seemed at the time).

As for flavor:
SBell has fallen and can't get up in time! They were...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/1/AAAACbAADrz5.jpg
ROSHAN, INDEPENDENT "Immortal" Psychic
[Shrieking]
Immortality sucks, as you should be aware of at this point. At some point in the distant past, you dared to steal immortality from the gods, unaware that said immortality was the resurrective sort. Heroes of all sort want to kill you for your protection, yet you always return, stronger and angrier than before. Of course, Mafia having its limitations, you can only return from the dead so much. Watch out for Ursa, by the way, he has it out for you for some reason.

As a Psychic, you will be messaged how many people visited you in one day at the start of each day phase, but not any actions they may have taken.

As an "Immortal," your flip will not post after you die the first time. One random person on the wagon for your vote or a person who otherwise caused your death receives the Aegis of the Immortal and an Aghanim's Shard. When you possess these items, they work differently than they do for any other player. You will be returned to the game thirty-six hours later (realtime) and reclaim the Aegis of the Immortal from whoever possesses it. Be warned that your second death will count!

If you are alive for 3 DAY PHASES in their entirety, you gain the Bash ability. Once per night, you will automatically stun one visitor at random, roleblocking them and disallowing them from using or passing any items until the start of next night phase. "Stunned" visitors are notified that they have been stunned and will be unable to use day actions, receive an "action failed" response if they try, and their vote may not be altered after initially being placed during the next day phase.

You win when the only remaining players in the game are INDEPENDENT.

ITEMS: as Roshan, you may not visit anyone to give them items. This includes no visiting the shop.

Any gold you receive will be provided to your killer, for both deaths. As for items, if you receive items, they will be dropped on the ground for a visitor to you to take. This will trigger your Bash ability but still resolve, if you have unlocked it.

There are exceptions to this item rule, but you will be informed about it in the event they occur.

With no further independents in the way, and before Ulti can claim the Aegis, a hammer flies from behind and clonks him in the back of the head. He falls to the ground.

Ulti has been slain! He was...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/2/AAAACbAADrz6.jpg
PUDGE, TOWN Bodyguard
"Ahhhh, FRESH MEAT!"

You're the original, baby. Every other similar game has hook-and-disable heroes, and you're the biggest, baddest, fattest, and... most Australian of them all? Your Meat Hook is a powerful tool to yank an ally out of danger, or yank the danger away from an ally for you to chow down on. Unfortunately, as this is a Mafia game, you lack the items to survive such an aggressive attempt, and your aim is a bit off.

Meat Hook - Once per NIGHT PHASE, you may use a night action to target a player. If that player was to be killed or poisoned that night, you will die or be poisoned in their place.

Sheep007 posted...

I will say that as a detached viewer, I thought Lopen wasn't Town for the whole game, was very confused when Ctes got lynched first, felt smug, and then realised what happened on the flip. Poppy and SBell had solid games for their roles, but Scum Red won it in the most Red way possible. Guess that's the "play the game not the setup" moment for this one because the dude had no business outliving both Ctes and Lopen. The first person I'd want on a scumteam to make a plan for something as convoluted as this setup is Red, though. He played to his own strengths and nobody really pressured him after the claims. Hard to call it entirely undeserved when nobody made him work for it during the day phase (as understandable as the decision seemed at the time).

Tinfoil Lopen is Town Lopen. Unfortunately tinfoil Lopen is in another stratosphere.

Red has claimed the Aegis of the Immortal and charges the Radiant ancient. It falls in a pyrotechnic display of cherry blossoms and stone dust.

Red has won! They were...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/5/AAAACbAADrz9.jpg
Valora, MAFIA Stunner/Hammerer
"The Hammer wants to go this way."

One of the first children of the Light, you are Valora, the Dawnbreaker, a brilliant shining star fallen to earth and embroiled in the War of the Ancients. You're a living weapon, a radiant beacon of hope everywhere, and... Nah, screw it, you're all about the hammer you wield. You are a sun-flavored female Thor, flinging it to-and-fro, or smashing it down to the ground to disrupt the opposition.

Celesital Hammer - As a Hammerer, if you are not voting for a lynch target, you will automatically, invisibly vote for any player but yourself if the vote totals approach one more to guarantee a majority lynch. Votals will visibly have you on any other target if you are not already on the wagon, and the final lynch tally will reveal "The Hammerer" as being on the final vote. If you are on the lynch wagon for the current lynched target, this will not trigger.

Additionally, as a Stunner, once per day phase but no earlier than twelve hours after start of day but no later than twelve hours before the end of day, you may use a day action to whisper the host "##stun: <target>." If successful, your target will be notified they are stunned. They will not be able to use any active items or pass any items between that point and the point when the day phase ends. Any daytime actions attempted after that point will be roleblocked, and they will be unable to alter their vote (if cast) or cast their vote at all (if they have not yet.)

Valora has also received her upgrade:
"Starbreaker" - Valora gains the option to, once per game, use a day or night action to ensure a target's death, protections be damned. You are, after all, a Strongwoman. The act of swinging the hammer this violently destroys any items the deceased is carrying, unless the item itself is indestructible.

(By the way, red, you either misread it or I miswrote it, but I had it so you couldn't double-vote the wagon, but you could've disguised it elsewhere.)

Also, I kinda liked the setup (a little messy in places, obviously, but plenty of neat concepts. Upgrading roles from low to high power is kinda nice, and I think lots of killing roles stops that being too broken. It'd have been great in a bigger game and I'd like to see a similar idea if there's ever 20+ games again). The shop seemed like something Ben would have had a blast with in a setup, although I dunno how much he was involved.

Either way, it's okay to fuck up a little bit. Just a bit of a lesson to wait for setup checks, although I do get that it's difficult with most people willing and able to do so are either busy, playing the games themselves, or out of the community.

Regarding Roshan's win condition:
SBell, if you had ever died beforehand, your "Bash" would upgrade to "Choose to nightkill a random visitor." Because I apparently didn't have enough >_>;

Isquen posted...

Regarding Roshan's win condition:
SBell, if you had ever died beforehand, your "Bash" would upgrade to "Choose to nightkill a random visitor." Because I apparently didn't have enough >_>;

well that's awesome... couldn't buy a visit this game

Yeah there was just too much chaos
And too much roles that punished all sides but especially scum and town.
I said most of what I wanted to say in the dead chat already, but can we now kill insane roles forever?

Isquen posted...

(By the way, red, you either misread it or I miswrote it, but I had it so you couldn't double-vote the wagon, but you could've disguised it elsewhere.)

Oh i just misspoke. I knew i could double vote hammer elsewhere. I was just absolutely never going to let that happen because i thought it would look scummy.

And again, giving scum full vote power at endgame is just unfair.

That said the pineapples I have no problem with.
I was just too worried about talking about the silver pin because I thought it would be too much host text.
(and also because I thought grenades dont explode by themselves!)

htaeD posted...

That said the pineapples I have no problem with.
I was just too worried about talking about the silver pin because I thought it would be too much host text.
(and also because I thought grenades dont explode by themselves!)

You can't verbatim a host text. You can mention details in it.

My design philosophy:
A Consumable Fiesta.
- Almost all players are given items at the start of the game, seperate from their passive abilities. On top of some passives, several roles are given items that they are capable of consuming in lieu of a normal role, and several may also be "passed" as a day action - or in one specific case, a free action.
- One scum member will have an Aghanim's Shard by default, and no shard can be consumed until day 2. Consuming a shard does not count as a daytime or nighttime action, but counts towards a one-item-per-phase limit. (This got scrapped through setup.)
- Items apart from Aegis of the Immortal can only be used once per DAY PHASE/NIGHT PHASE; if a player possesses multiple items, they can only use one item per phase. Items will specify if they are expended on use. (This was changed to make the items themselves be day actions and night actions, where applicable.)
- Everyone drops their items upon death unless otherwise specified. Scum that carries out a kill automatically (at random) retrieves one of these items on death.

Multiple independents. To have the amount of roles usable, two independents will be in the game. Neither town nor mafia know how many independents there are, but scum will be assured there are no traitor roles.

Setup traps - 10/3/2 - "Good guy" heroes being evil, to those in the know. Millers and scan-warnings with the only scans being for motion, items, and a Mafia-aligned cop (with upgrades providing more scanning power, if that occurs, such as an observer like back in Elden Ring mafia.) An "Insane" town-aligned role that receives false results. Two independents in the game, but they don't know of each other by default. Protection limited to bodyguard, a conditional poison healer, and a faux-doctor that requires cooperation with someone else or item use. Deduction will be a key factor.

Killing intent - Certain town roles have killing power, but not by default. Scum roles have their usual night kill, but no extra kill by default, and have no methods to hide it by default, either. Scum will have their Aghanims upgrades revealed to them at the start of the game.

Musings as a new host:
1.) Tone down the killing power somewhat. Yes, I laid a few traps, some unfairly, but I had expected a run out to day 6, not a day 5 finale. (And this was BEFORE I swapped Techies from "every night" to "odd-night," even though Techies could kill itself if it ever got roleblocked.)
2.) Be a bit less ambitious if new to hosting. There would have been more watching power (and cheap observer wards) available if I didn't continually mix up in my own head the difference between Observer Wards and Ctes's nightly power (and presumably, Chang's upgraded power.) What's more, this would've helped Lopen sanity-check himself.
3.) Be a bit more open with my co-host. I ran pretty much all the gold totals and inventories under the hood, and I appreciate that most of the players kept an eye on their own money, but with the stress of how rough Thursday the 8th was and the end of today was....
4.) If all three factions complain to me privately, did I do a good job, or a terrible one?
5.) I enjoyed writing flavor. I did not, however, enjoy how much casual racism I noticed in flavor *videos* from Dota 2. Man, I love Dota but I hate its playerbase.
6.) Yes, I agree Insane Psychic was bullshit. If I pull something like that ever again, a.) Yes, it requires a bastard tag for the game, not a "role madness" (inexperience strikes again) and b.) drop better hints. "None of them were trees" is not enough of a hint. "The ghost of ctes visited you last night" would've been a hint.

I do like the item idea and as a first go it did good.
Needs some finetuning tho...even if I am not sure how.

I love Death Delayers. I used a role like that back in English Lit mafia. It's cool balance-wise because it's a form of protection that doesn't affect balance as much as a Doctor. Like a Bodyguard.

Oh yeah that was unfortunate too, nearly got my own item claim ruined.
But its no biggie in the end.

this was one of the games of all time

i will just say that roles that lie to the players in their role pm are considered bastard modding and there should generally be a warning attached to that sort of things when a game goes into signups. first time host, though, live and learn, but please please please make sure games are reviewed to not have that sort of thing in the future, lol. (i have seen worse roles, though, believe it or not)

i don't necessarily blame town for making the choices it did given info available and it kind of sucks that this was the outcome for a game that had been going so well for them

(personally, i thought ctes was BLEEDING town on day 3. it's just tragic that my win condition was not aligned with the town so that it benefitted me more to allow him to get killed. if i have a town role PM i like to think that never happens)

Isquen posted...

Insane Psychic needs some more clues.

Again. Psychic role wasn't insane. It was random. There is a big difference there. Your flavor shouldn't be clues to roles or such either. This role just needed to never exist.

Insane is opposite results. This wasn't opposite results. It was random results.

Also don't tell the game twice in the rules radiant is town and dire is scum. Then say "flavor doesn't necessarily dictate alignment". This reads as clear flavor split with 3rd parties or roles that supersede the split.

I honestly thought the set up was fine.

It had some quirks but you test these things out to see if they work it happens.

Also I would like to day I was impressed with Poppy

htaeD posted...

Oh yeah that was unfortunate too, nearly got my own item claim ruined.
But its no biggie in the end.

You were town confirmed to hell and then you exploded.

I'm the one who got the dumb role why is everyone else mad

UltimaterializerX posted...

I think Stus thing was random too, because I definitely visited him.

No, I got that one. Post #313.

I was pretty busy after Day 2 and just going through the motions. Lopen seemed more Town to me than ctes anyway

I blame Ulti for voting ctes before I could so I rushed to vote Lopen before passing the pineapple (which I would have passed to Lopen lol)

also i didn't remember death having one before he exploded

UltimaterializerX posted...

You are an incredible person and I hope you stick around to play more. Sorry you got to glimpse my bad side a bit here >_>

lol it's NP, i've seen far worse in games. got a bit too into it myself because i was in a tight spot day 2 and fought back a little dirty

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Also I would like to day I was impressed with Poppy

thanks, appreciated.

for the record, i said this in the dead chat, but i should confess i hustled everyone a little bit - i have played a lot of mafia. I was on EM for 5 years or so, and i've played on mafiascum, mafia universe, and a bunch of various other sites. probably played 200, 300 gamse of FM total? i don't keep track of games but it's a very high number. currently in my "old veteran wandering around to a bunch of different communities to experience new things" phase.i was reminded that there are games here, so i decided to wander home and sign up for one. gamefaqs is the first message board i ever signed up for online so posting here is a nostalgic experience (even if jeff vea$ey ripped out teh dang soul of the site long ago)

it's a good thing no one in game asked me why i randomly decided to show back up to gamefaqs...wouldn't have had a good cover story.

anyway feel okay with how i did, was cool voting the entire scum team on day 1, maybe with hindsight i should have tried to townside a bit more but i took the actions that i thought were the best possible move at the time

Anyway fun game. Basically AIM mafia and the team who played worst won but AIM mafia is random.

Deleted message. Who has the goods on it?

Don't play Undertale