Board 8 > U.S. Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade

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redrocket
05/03/22 2:50:32 AM
#51:


TheRock1525 posted...
Doubtful. It might mitigate the expected losses somewhat, but I don't think there's enough single issue voters out there supporting abortion rights, nor people right now who are willing to stomach the inflation issues in order to try and protect/restore it.

Ill go on record now

If this is how the final draft of the ruling looks

And there are no Serious political repercussions on a national level

I will be willing to concede that the country is tracking towards the Handmaids Tale timeline.

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TheRock1525
05/03/22 2:57:45 AM
#52:


Americans are selfish pricks. More people are going to vote based on how much gas costs than a fundamental right being taken away from millions of women.

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red sox 777
05/03/22 2:58:47 AM
#53:


Jakyl25 posted...
Sure; which is why it should have been enshrined into law by now instead of perilously resting reproductive rights on a flimsy ruling

Under what authority would Congress pass a law on this? Remember the federal Congress does not have general authority to pass laws on any topic - only on the topics assigned to them by the Constitution. They try to shoehorn in everything under the Commerce Clause, but that is a huge stretch and unlikely to fly.

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redrocket
05/03/22 2:58:47 AM
#54:


TheRock1525 posted...
Americans are selfish pricks. More people are going to vote based on how much gas costs than a fundamental right being taken away from millions of women.

redrocket posted...

I will be willing to concede that the country is tracking towards the Handmaids Tale timeline.


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Suprak the Stud
05/03/22 2:59:42 AM
#55:


Love your optimism and the fact you haven't given up yet.

There were no political consequences to Mitch McConnell stealing a SC seat.

There were/will be no political consequences to an active insurrection attempt.

There will be no political consequences to this. No one mad at this was undecided. Abortion rights have slowly been eaten away over the past decade and there weren't political consequences to that either.

EVERYTHING IS BAD

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TheRock1525
05/03/22 3:01:48 AM
#56:


It does bring up an interesting juxtaposition if there truly are plans this fall for Biden to wipe out a ton of student debt.

"We just helped millions of people get out of crippling debt while Republicans took away rights from millions of women."

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redrocket
05/03/22 3:02:28 AM
#57:


Suprak the Stud posted...
Love your optimism and the fact you haven't given up yet.

There were no political consequences to Mitch McConnell stealing a SC seat.

There were/will be no political consequences to an active insurrection attempt.

There will be no political consequences to this. No one mad at this was undecided. Abortion rights have slowly been eaten away over the past decade and there weren't political consequences to that either.

EVERYTHING IS BAD

is this directed at me?

do not mistake my post for optimism.


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Suprak the Stud
05/03/22 3:03:54 AM
#58:


Haha I'm grading you by the Suprak scale.

"Maybe voters will actually not do the worst thing" is something that passes for optimism in 2022 for me.

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TheRock1525
05/03/22 3:10:09 AM
#59:


I mean, single issue anti-abortion voters will be pacified by this ruling if it means abortions become illegal in their individual state. They see places such as New York and California as such "others" that I think they probably welcome the idea of them continuing to abort. After all, in their sick minds it just means that in their good ol' home state, there will be more children raised under conservative, God fearing values to overwhelm those heathen godless liberal states.

At the end of the day, they've got Roe v. Wade overturned and the perfect buffer for it ever coming back with a 6-3 majority.

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Lightning Strikes
05/03/22 5:38:44 AM
#60:


The idea of a politicised Supreme Court is insane, almost like a dictatorship. Why it isnt an independent body is beyond me.

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LordoftheMorons
05/03/22 5:54:47 AM
#61:


Lightning Strikes posted...
The idea of a politicised Supreme Court is insane, almost like a dictatorship. Why it isnt an independent body is beyond me.
Historically the Supreme Court has been less politicized than the other branches. It also is independent, unless I misunderstand your meaning. Justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, but after that the only control either of the other branches has over them is the possibility of impeachment by Congress (through the exact same process as impeaching a president, i.e. not something that's at all likely to happen unless there's a bipartisan consensus). If you mean that they should be elected, I would think that that would make the court considerably more politicized.

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#62
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Corrik7
05/03/22 6:18:48 AM
#63:


I mean, democrats could have trotted out basically anyone other than poison pill Hillary in that election and won.

Just a reminder.

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Corrik7
05/03/22 6:20:43 AM
#64:


UltimaterializerX posted...
This is really, really awful. However, my understanding is this will mean it become a states rights thing and not an actual national ban, so abortion will be legal in blue states. Is this accurate?
Yeah, it is what everyone has always said will happen. That abortion won't be banned by the Supreme Court. It would be just sent back to states to decide.

That said, it's a rough draft and the original roe v wade was set to fail in rough discussions before flipping to the roe v wade outcome we got. So, it's not determined yet.

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Ryokles
05/03/22 6:40:20 AM
#65:


This is absolutely horrifying. So many women are going to die if this happens. Fuck

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swordz9
05/03/22 7:18:36 AM
#66:


Truly the country of freedom. Just wait til they say interracial marriage is up to states to decide too. Maybe well even see segregation and slavery return in our lifetime. At this point we might be better off cutting out the red states and letting them have their dumpster fire white nationalist country they clearly prefer to have
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#67
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Seanchan
05/03/22 7:41:30 AM
#68:


When is the actual decision expected to be released? June? October?

I'm 95% sure this "leak" was done on purpose to soften the blow when the actual decision comes out.

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Steiner
05/03/22 7:51:18 AM
#69:


i thought the purpose of americans owning guns was to be able to resist a tyrannical government, yet none of the supreme court has been murdered yet?

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#70
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Lightning Strikes
05/03/22 7:58:44 AM
#71:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Historically the Supreme Court has been less politicized than the other branches. It also is independent, unless I misunderstand your meaning. Justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, but after that the only control either of the other branches has over them is the possibility of impeachment by Congress (through the exact same process as impeaching a president, i.e. not something that's at all likely to happen unless there's a bipartisan consensus). If you mean that they should be elected, I would think that that would make the court considerably more politicized.


No, quite the opposite. Independent=selected by an independent body that is not directly elected and is selected on a basis of ability, like in most other democracies.

Like, to give an example of how messed up this is, you know Turkey? And you know Erdogan, the President and quasi-dictator? One of the things that had people calling him a dictator (not unjustly) was a constitutional amendment that let him appoint some (not all) judges to the highest court that were nominated by independent bodies. In America the President can pick whoever as long as theyre confirmed by the senate (which will be true in 90% of cases because enough senate elections are simultaneous with Presidential elections). That is an outlandish degree of power. And its something that even compromised democracies dont do. This is why.

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masterplum
05/03/22 8:04:03 AM
#72:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Its very likely not happening until after the midterms, hence the leak. Dems are getting mauled in polling.

They are polling so bad that this wont even matter. Thats the sad part.

There is no way the decision is being held for 5 months

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GANON1025
05/03/22 8:04:17 AM
#73:


Its not that no one will care about this, I think, but more that everyone that WILL care already werent going to vote for Republicans. Its still surprising to see them try to do this this year, where there could be theoretical repercussions during the mid terms. Youd think itd be safer to do this next year.

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masterplum
05/03/22 8:05:41 AM
#74:


GANON1025 posted...
Its not that no one will care about this, I think, but more that everyone that WILL care already werent going to vote for Republicans. Its still surprising to see them try to do this this year, where there could be theoretical repercussions during the mid terms. Youd think itd be safer to do this next year.

I think this is where the independence of the supreme court shows through a bit. I think if the supreme court was just a branch of the Republicans they would strategically wait till next year, but that isn't how it works.

Honestly I hope this reverses the potential losses Biden was going to face. If this doesn't galvanize the Democratic base I don't know what will

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Lightning Strikes
05/03/22 8:16:03 AM
#75:


Anyway, to address the issue a bit more directly I live in Ireland so Ive seen how this goes effectively. Here, until 2018 abortion was illegal and it meant basically two things:

-Women still got abortions in similar numbers to other countries, they just had to travel to the UK to get them which was harmful mentally and added a needless economic burden that could exclude the poorest. This led to of course illegal, often unsafe abortions at home.

-Women did die as a result, notably Savita Halappanavar who had her request for a termination on the grounds of threat to her health denied and then died of sepsis. This is despite the fact that it was legal to grant abortions to save the life of the mother, basically the blanket ban led to bias towards denials regardless.

As America is much larger with 60x the population and vastly higher income inequality, both of these will be worse. Also this would allow denial of abortions even if it would kill the mother no? Horrifying stuff.

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ShatteredElysium
05/03/22 8:18:18 AM
#76:


What really sucks about this is I live in a red state that will likely implement this quick or even before it's rolled out. And yet there's multiple issues with me moving to a blue state to actually give my wife the rights she deserves (we are safe and have never once had a scare but that isn't the point).

A. I don't work remote and it's not an option so I'd have to leave a company I've worked at for 17 years

B. Even though I have ~$200k in equity in my house, if I sold it and bought another house for the same price my mortgage would rise by $700 which is a 50% increase because interest rates are a batshit crazy 6% right now and property prices are being driven through the roof

C. I actually like where I live plus all my friends are here.

Florida is incredibly unlikely to go blue, especially with how DeSantis has recently redistricted Florida to have a R+20 bias.
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masterplum
05/03/22 8:22:02 AM
#77:


ShatteredElysium posted...
What really sucks about this is I live in a red state that will likely implement this quick or even before it's rolled out. And yet there's multiple issues with me moving to a blue state to actually give my wife the rights she deserves (we are safe and have never once had a scare but that isn't the point).

A. I don't work remote and it's not an option so I'd have to leave a company I've worked at for 17 years

B. Even though I have ~$200k in equity in my house, if I sold it and bought another house for the same price my mortgage would rise by $700 which is a 50% increase because interest rates are a batshit crazy 6% right now and property prices are being driven through the roof

C. I actually like where I live plus all my friends are here.

Florida is incredibly unlikely to go blue, especially with how DeSantis has recently redistricted Florida to have a R+20 bias.

I also live in Florida. Not sure how this will go down, but I think it might be a bit early to call it. The congressional map is wildly unconstitutional and will be set as so, and Florida lost 70,000 to Covid which could affect votes.

I dont think its too late

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#78
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ChaosTonyV4
05/03/22 8:34:30 AM
#79:


I think its worth pointing out that multiple red states have already (before the ruling) announced their intent to make traveling out of state for an abortion illegal, so pointing to states rights only goes so far.

masterplum posted...
I also live in Florida. Not sure how this will go down, but I think it might be a bit early to call it. The congressional map is wildly unconstitutional and will be set as so, and Florida lost 70,000 to Covid which could affect votes.

I dont think its too late

I didnt realize you were here too, which part? Florida has hella B8ers now


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NFUN
05/03/22 8:38:54 AM
#80:


Steiner posted...
i thought the purpose of americans owning guns was to be able to resist a tyrannical government, yet none of the supreme court has been murdered yet?
maybe scalia wasn't an accident

maybe the hero we need is out there somewhere to save us

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ShatteredElysium
05/03/22 8:40:21 AM
#81:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
I think its worth pointing out that multiple red states have already (before the ruling) announced their intent to make traveling out of state for an abortion illegal, so pointing to states rights only goes so far.

I didnt realize you were here too, which part? Florida has hella B8ers now

Outskirts of Orlando for me (Winter Garden / Ocoee area)
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masterplum
05/03/22 8:40:31 AM
#82:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
I think its worth pointing out that multiple red states have already (before the ruling) announced their intent to make traveling out of state for an abortion illegal, so pointing to states rights only goes so far.

I didnt realize you were here too, which part? Florida has hella B8ers now

Halfway between Orlando and Daytona Beach

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ChaosTonyV4
05/03/22 8:41:48 AM
#83:


Damn, I think Im the only panhandle-r

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#84
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ShatteredElysium
05/03/22 8:49:01 AM
#85:


masterplum posted...
Halfway between Orlando and Daytona Beach


Are you in like the DeLand / Deltona area? Or I guess maybe Sanford? My in-laws live in Deltona and I regularly transport rescue cats to DeLand for a rescue in Deleon Springs
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Dancedreamer
05/03/22 8:49:24 AM
#86:


masterplum posted...
I think this is where the independence of the supreme court shows through a bit. I think if the supreme court was just a branch of the Republicans they would strategically wait till next year, but that isn't how it works.

They are waiting until next year to release it. Why do you think Republicans are so upset that it was leaked? It's all strategic. 5 of our justices are owned by the federalist society. That's a majority. And it'll stay that way barring Clarence Thomas or Samuel Alito dropping dead before the midterms. It's no coincidence that this decision is scheduled for next June, when it would have the least impact.

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ShatteredElysium
05/03/22 8:49:43 AM
#87:


UltimaterializerX posted...
How is this even remotely enforceable.

Probably the way Texas does it? Where they offer rewards for snitching?
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MoogleKupo141
05/03/22 8:57:22 AM
#88:


ShatteredElysium posted...
Probably the way Texas does it? Where they offer rewards for snitching?

is there any other situation where you can get in trouble in one state for doing something thats illegal in that state, but its legal in the state you did it in? That seems like a thing that shouldnt be within their power

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masterplum
05/03/22 9:04:30 AM
#89:


ShatteredElysium posted...
Are you in like the DeLand / Deltona area? Or I guess maybe Sanford? My in-laws live in Deltona and I regularly transport rescue cats to DeLand for a rescue in Deleon Springs

Yeah actually haha. Crazy

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masterplum
05/03/22 9:05:10 AM
#90:


Dancedreamer posted...
They are waiting until next year to release it. Why do you think Republicans are so upset that it was leaked? It's all strategic. 5 of our justices are owned by the federalist society. That's a majority. And it'll stay that way barring Clarence Thomas or Samuel Alito dropping dead before the midterms. It's no coincidence that this decision is scheduled for next June, when it would have the least impact.

I dont think they wait that long do they?

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MoogleKupo141
05/03/22 9:06:39 AM
#91:


ok, I found an example of an attempt at this (url was too long, you gotta put it back together)

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/health-science-environment/2022-03-11/missouri-lawmaker-wants-
to-make-it-a-crime-to-help-people-get-abortions-out-of-state

it appears that my assumption was right that states cant actually do anything directly to a woman for having an abortion out of state, but they want to be able to prosecute/sue anyone within the state who helps facilitate the woman getting an abortion out of state

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paperwarior
05/03/22 9:14:53 AM
#92:


TheRock1525 posted...
It does bring up an interesting juxtaposition if there truly are plans this fall for Biden to wipe out a ton of student debt.

"We just helped millions of people get out of crippling debt while Republicans took away rights from millions of women."
I'm not that optimistic about student debt.

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Seanchan
05/03/22 9:19:03 AM
#93:


I read on the BBC that the decision could come late June or early July. What a great way to celebrate independence! We look like absolute fools to the rest of the western world.

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LiquidOshawott
05/03/22 11:39:50 AM
#94:


Looks like the court is confirming this is authentic, expected but yeah

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/03/supreme-court-says-leaked-abortion-draft-is-authentic-roberts-orders-investigation-into-leak.html

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red sox 777
05/03/22 1:00:39 PM
#95:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
is there any other situation where you can get in trouble in one state for doing something thats illegal in that state, but its legal in the state you did it in? That seems like a thing that shouldnt be within their power

Haven't looked into this in depth but I'm pretty sure there's a "right to travel" between states.

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StartTheMachine
05/03/22 1:04:01 PM
#96:


Absolutely insane. And 13 states have "trigger laws" that will outright ban abortion within 30 days of this ruling from SCOTUS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/03/us/state-abortion-trigger-laws-roe-v-wade-overturned/index.html

Not surprised, Tennessee is one of them. Never been a better time to get out of here and move somewhere else, I suppose.

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swordz9
05/03/22 1:04:14 PM
#97:


Men are just as responsible in making children so clearly we should just make all men get vasectomies which are reversible if were going to dictate what women do with their bodies. Anyone against this idea shouldnt be telling women what the fuck they can do with their own bodies tbh
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Kenri
05/03/22 1:10:22 PM
#98:


swordz9 posted...
Men are just as responsible in making children so clearly we should just make all men get vasectomies which are reversible if were going to dictate what women do with their bodies. Anyone against this idea shouldnt be telling women what the fuck they can do with their own bodies tbh
The point is to control women, it has nothing to do with children or childbirth

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masterplum
05/03/22 1:13:24 PM
#99:


Kenri posted...
The point is to control women, it has nothing to do with children or childbirth

I hate this argument. While probably true for some people, I've talked to plenty of religious people who are great people and honestly care about unborn children

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swordz9
05/03/22 1:14:23 PM
#100:


Well naturally. My scenario would never happen because theres no way the men would ever let themselves be oppressed or controlled. Government needs to stay the fuck out of personal choices for people like this or we start go the way of countries where you have almost no freedom whatsoever.
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