Poll of the Day > So, like, police assassinated another dude in a no-knock raid...

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/minneapolis-police-shooting-no-knock-warrant-amir-locke/index.html

I think its safe to say Minneapolis has the single worst group of law enforcement officers in this country lmao. They just cant stop killing black people.

edit: or people in general I should say. I just remembered that Australian lady they shot.

The Minneapolis policy, as of Wednesday, allowed "unannounced entry" on high-risk warrants, which would "authorize officers to enter ... without first knocking and announcing their presence or purpose."

High-risk makes it all the more important that the police announce their presence and purpose.

Was he Black?

Yup oh well, I guess Chauvin will get a Cell Mate, Crump Chump/BLM will get everyone riled up for another Payday, the family will win the Ghetto Lottery, and said Victim will be in the Dirt somewhere

...you're literally bringing this up days after the fact and are using the initial report. Even on 2/7, I think there were some updates. However, they arrested the guy who they'd been after.

https://www.startribune.com/17-year-old-arrested-in-st-paul-homicide-that-prompted-no-knock-warrant-leading-to-amir-lockes-death/600144372/

Fun fact: The 17 y/o accused of murdering somebody (with a gun), which prompted the no-knock raid, was on probation for shooting somebody else.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

High-risk makes it all the more important that the police announce their presence and purpose.

...the high risk involves going after armed and dangerous suspects where the announcement makes things far more dangerous. The problem here is just the cops once again got the wrong address, which is a problem across all raids.

I liked the part where the half-asleep black kid was being more responsible with his firearm than the paid professionals that broke into his house and murdered him.

The_Viscount posted...

The problem here is just the cops once again got the wrong address, which is a problem across all raids.

There is no "the problem." There are multiple problems. Shitty police work, no knock warrants increasing fatality rates by an obscene percentage, people using the argument that having a weapon means agents of the State are justified in shooting you (anti-2nd amendment),
No knock warrants should not exist. They give minimal benefit and cause massive amounts of harm.
If agents of the State are permitted to execute people for being armed, we functionally do not have a 2nd amendment.
Arguments have been made that no knock warrants are unconstitutional.
If police can't do their job right, they shouldn't be police, let alone trigger-happy police with military-grade gear that can break into people's houses with no warning.

The_Viscount posted...

...the high risk involves going after armed and dangerous suspects where the announcement makes things far more dangerous. The problem here is just the cops once again got the wrong address, which is a problem across all raids.

And once again no knock raids should be illegal.

pionear posted...

Was he Black?

Yup oh well, I guess Chauvin will get a Cell Mate, Crump Chump/BLM will get everyone riled up for another Payday, the family will win the Ghetto Lottery, and said Victim will be in the Dirt somewhere

what the fuck is this blatant racist shit

The_Viscount posted...

...you're literally bringing this up days after the fact and are using the initial report. Even on 2/7, I think there were some updates. However, they arrested the guy who they'd been after.

https://www.startribune.com/17-year-old-arrested-in-st-paul-homicide-that-prompted-no-knock-warrant-leading-to-amir-lockes-death/600144372/

Fun fact: The 17 y/o accused of murdering somebody (with a gun), which prompted the no-knock raid, was on probation for shooting somebody else.

...the high risk involves going after armed and dangerous suspects where the announcement makes things far more dangerous. The problem here is just the cops once again got the wrong address, which is a problem across all raids.

They'll probably charge him with murder of the guy the police shot now.

Revelation34 posted...

They'll probably charge him with murder of the guy the police shot now.

This is the best outcome now, since even though the no-knock raid caused the death... the police rightly acted when they saw someone with a gun (even though everyone has a gun in America and the first thing someone will do when they hear shouting and the door being busted down is to grab their gun)

Lokarin posted...

This is the best outcome now, since even though the no-knock raid caused the death... the police rightly acted when they saw someone with a gun (even though everyone has a gun in America and the first thing someone will do when they hear shouting and the door being busted down is to grab their gun)

No they didn't rightly act.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No, that's very very bad - I was saying the best outcome was adding a murder charge to the warranted teen

Lokarin posted...

No, that's very very bad - I was saying the best outcome was adding a murder charge to the warranted teen

No it should go to the cops instead.

Lokarin posted...

No, that's very very bad - I was saying the best outcome was adding a murder charge to the warranted teen

Why would the person who they were trying to serve the warrant on be responsible for the police's negligence?

Jen0125 posted...

Why would the person who they were trying to serve the warrant on be responsible for the police's negligence?

Because until better informed, it seems like the police in question were acting within the normal guidelines for a raid (which shouldn't have happened in the first place)... so the only ones to blame are either the person they were searching for or the person who signed the raid approval

Lokarin posted...

Because until better informed, it seems like the police in question were acting within the normal guidelines for a raid (which shouldn't have happened in the first place)... so the only ones to blame are either the person they were searching for or the person who signed the raid approval

So pin a murder on someone that had literally nothing to do with it because the police didn't do their jobs right from start to finish?

Makes sense.

Lokarin posted...

Because until better informed, it seems like the police in question were acting within the normal guidelines for a raid (which shouldn't have happened in the first place)... so the only ones to blame are either the person they were searching for or the person who signed the raid approval

The person they are searching for has no responsibility for police negligence. That is literally one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say.

Jen0125 posted...

The person they are searching for has no responsibility for police negligence. That is literally one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say.

Then the blame shifts to the person who signed the raid approval.

Lokarin posted...

Then the blame shifts to the person who signed the raid approval.

It belongs to the cops and the department. You're acting so weird. Like anything to get out of holding police responsible for their murdering ig shrug

Jen0125 posted...

It belongs to the cops and the department. You're acting so weird. Like anything to get out of holding police responsible for their murdering ig shrug

not at all, if the individual officers were negligent then the anvil should fall on them... but the way I'm interpreting is that if you are given an raid order to shoot first/ask questions never then you aren't negligent when you do so...

Lokarin posted...

Then the blame shifts to the person who signed the raid approval.

The blame is on the entire department, they have checks and balances so this doesn't happen.

Lokarin posted...

not at all, if the individual officers were negligent then the anvil should fall on them... but the way I'm interpreting is that if you are given an raid order to shoot first/ask questions never then you aren't negligent when you do so...

No knock warrants shouldn't exist and open up a flood of negligence. Police should be refusing to perform them. Anything to not hold individual police officers responsible for their actions. I'll tag you as bootlicker from now on. A shame.

Jen0125 posted...

No knock warrants shouldn't exist and open up a flood of negligence. Police should be refusing to perform them. Anything to not hold individual police officers responsible for their actions. I'll tag you as bootlicker from now on. A shame.

ahh man :<

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


sorry, I don't articulate well...

The_Viscount posted...

The problem here is just the cops once again got the wrong address, which is a problem across all raids.

Fortunately, the charge of Criminal Negligence Causing Death exists for exactly this purpose. Less fortunately, not nearly enough of the people responsible for this death are actually going to face that charge, let alone be found as guilty as they are of it.

Do you still watch all those centrist YouTubers? Cause I feel like this is what happens when you try to find a rational explanation for everything instead of coming to the obvious conclusion that cops are fucking heinous pigs

CoorsLight posted...

Do you still watch all those centrist YouTubers? Cause I feel like this is what happens when you try to find a rational explanation for everything instead of coming to the obvious conclusion that cops are fucking heinous pigs

I prefer rational explanations

Lokarin posted...

I prefer rational explanations

he said not realizing the irony.

"well he had a gun so they acted correctly by shooting him"

Bruh they broke into his house, they should be shooting themselves.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


yasee, i can't tell if you're gaslighting me cuz it seems like people are misconstruing what I'm saying

This story has gotten no media attention. Hardly anyone is talking about yet this to me this is worse than George Floyd. At least Floyd had the option of cooperating with officers where as Amir literally had his door kicked in while sleeping and savagely murdered him without ANY chance of surviving/protecting himself. To me this needs to be the center of attention marches need to take place sev1 sound the alarms etc

the media/society is sick. It reminds me of school shootings. its like once we endure a few of these incidents we then at some point just accept them and move on. Onto the next big trend

Lokarin posted...

yasee, i can't tell if you're gaslighting me cuz it seems like people are misconstruing what I'm saying

you arent being gaslit, you are talking some bullshit and getting checked
if you think you are wording it poorly, its very poorly and you need to check yourself before spewing what came to mind first

Lokarin posted...

but the way I'm interpreting is that if you are given an raid order to shoot first/ask questions never then you aren't negligent when you do so...

this is literally just the nuremberg defense dude. orders don't make you into an amoral robot. you're still responsible for your actions

chelsea_wtf posted...

this is literally just the nuremberg defense dude. orders don't make you into an amoral robot. you're still responsible for your actions

which is why no-knock raids should be banned

Lokarin posted...

which is why no-knock raids should be banned

yeah, that's not the part we disagree about. we're saying that the cops are still morally responsible for their actions, even if they were ordered to do it

and that in a just world they would be held criminally liable as well, even if they were ordered to do it

chelsea_wtf posted...

yeah, that's not the part we disagree about. we're saying that the cops are still morally responsible for their actions, even if they were ordered to do it

and that in a just world they would be held criminally liable as well, even if they were ordered to do it

I was trying to say that when there's no operational negligence in effect, the blame needs to go higher up the chain.

If you think there is enough evidence that it was the individual officer at fault, then I agree. If you think there isn't enough evidence so a higher up is at fault, I agree.

Lokarin posted...

I prefer rational explanations

Don't rash the fash (I don't think this is a thing people say)

But seriously, they want you to rationalize things, but it's not a good thing. More people need to just see things for what they really are. If you constantly rationalize things, then they'll just continue to see how far they can push the limit. I don't know why there is this tautology that because someone has authority/power, they therefore are surely acting in good faith. Actually I don't think that anyone anywhere on the political spectrum believes that, but they cherry pick instances where they do.

Lokarin posted...

If you think there is enough evidence that it was the individual officer at fault, then I agree. If you think there isn't enough evidence so a higher up is at fault, I agree.

i am trying to understand your view of justice and struggling, so sorry if this comes across the wrong way but: you realize it is possible for more than one person to be at fault for something, right? if i order you to shoot somebody and then you do it, we're both at fault.

there is plenty of evidence that the cop shot this innocent guy. there is plenty of evidence that no-knock raids are incredibly negligent and likely to lead to this kind of incident. so both the cop and the guy who ordered the raid are at fault. simple

chelsea_wtf posted...

i am trying to understand your view of justice and struggling, so sorry if this comes across the wrong way but: you realize it is possible for more than one person to be at fault for something, right? if i order you to shoot somebody and then you do it, we're both at fault.

there is plenty of evidence that the cop shot this innocent guy. there is plenty of evidence that no-knock raids are incredibly negligent and likely to lead to this kind of incident. so both the cop and the guy who ordered the raid are at fault. simple

Ok, I can agree with that...

It's just that I sympathize, cuz if I had to raid a building and I saw someone with a gun, what would I do?

I do think it's wrong that the higher ups don't get much punishment for this. Like whoever invented a lot of the structures that formulate militarized policing probably deserves dozens of life sentences. But also, if you sign up to be a cop and you're like yeah busting into people's houses and being ready to shoot is fine, you also deserve any punishment that comes to you

Lokarin posted...

cuz if I had to raid a building

I don't think you would sign up to raid a building, lok. unless i have massively misjudged your character. you don't just get assigned cop at birth, these people chose this job knowing what it entailed

Yeah there's a lot of (admittedly anecdotal) evidence that cops sign up exactly because of stuff like this. They don't "have" to do it, they "get" to. How many times when a cop kills someone does it turn out their Facebook was littered with Nazi/violence fetishism stuff

chelsea_wtf posted...

assigned cop at birth

Is this what acab stands for

CoorsLight posted...

Is this what acab stands for

yeah it's always the first thing i think of when i see acab so the phrase got stuck in my head lol

Yeeaah...what do you say anymore?! I guess I agree with:
1) Primary responsibility falls on those developing and allowing no-knock raids. Presuming those people can't be charged, there should at least be a large civil settlement...for whatever good that does.
2) The cop was acting as trained and (probably) isn't legally liable the way the law is written, but I agree with the comment that he has moral responsibility. This isn't the army: he wouldn't have been punished for knocking at his discretion or simply entering more cautiously. It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to realize that the actions you're taking have a risk of starting a shootout.
3) For God's sake, how many more systematic problems do we have that need fixing? And why do they all come to light in Minneapolis? Gross.
4) There are lots of good, idealistic cops out there. And there are lots of power fetish cops out there. We badly need the good ones, and badly need to get rid of the bad ones.

Lokarin posted...

It's just that I sympathize, cuz if I had to raid a building and I saw someone with a gun, what would I do?

if I was assigned to clean the sewers and saw a big ass rat I dont know what Id do
damn its a good thing I can just not sign up for a job im not prepared for

yall gotta stop giving these cops such fucking leeway like its not their job to be the better man in this situation
being a cop means being put in danger. period. stop allowing these wack ass cops to endanger people with their unwillingness to do their fucking job