Current Events > Charter schools are the answer! Defund public ed! Don't students uncomfortable!

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/notreallyjcm/status/1483987339206705152/photo/1

sheesh.

Savages! Savages! Barely even human!

Just realized I accidentally a word

Sir_Gawain posted...

Just realized I accidentally a word

Me, an intellectual: Yes students uncomfortable

Oh wow

Good critical thinking exercise

Hummer 2 posted...

Good critical thinking exercise

If question 9 was "Write a letter to President Andrew Jackson from the perspective of a member of the Cherokee Tribe. Explain why you think forced relocation is harmful to the Cherokee People." then I would agree, it could actually be a great critical thinking exercise.

If it is only from the settler perspective it is likely missing in the "critical" element.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Me, an intellectual: Yes students uncomfortable

lol

I'm going to students uncomfortable even more now

And yo FUCK this question

Bump

Curious what age that question is targeted at

I think it's really important to understand the perspective of folks on the immoral side of history - it is never as simple as "well they were bloodthirsty supervillains," and recognizing that is critical to not repeating it. That question doesnt seem to be saying that it was ethical to remove the cherokee from their land.

But this is CE so i guess the only acceptable response is outrage.

i can maybe be ok with this, iff there is a parallel assignment required, from the perspective of a Native American.

i wouldn't be surprised if one is there. i also wouldn't be surprised if one isn't there. it's labeled as item 10, so there is clearly more here.

Medussa posted...

i can maybe be ok with this, iff there is a parallel assignment required, from the perspective of a Native American.

i wouldn't be surprised if one is there. i also wouldn't be surprised if one isn't there. it's labeled as item 10, so there is clearly more here.

There's a way to frame this that can get students to critically think about how and why people have historically been in favor of various genocides, but as it's written it is absolutely not accomplishing that, and at this grade level I'm not sure this is the way to go about that, or that it even needs to be discussed.

g980 posted...

Curious what age that question is targeted at

I think it's really important to understand the perspective of folks on the immoral side of history - it is never as simple as "well they were bloodthirsty supervillains," and recognizing that is critical to not repeating it. That question doesnt seem to be saying that it was ethical to remove the cherokee from their land.

But this is CE so i guess the only acceptable response is outrage.

Again, there is a way to critically teach how and why people have supported immoral things, but this is not it.

Just do the assignment and shit the fuck up. You want your kid's education sterile...

Charter schools are publicly funded, though...

Cocytus posted...

Just do the assignment and shit the fuck up. You want your kid's education sterile...

Lmao sure missing the irony here aren't you

Sir_Gawain posted...

Lmao sure missing the irony here aren't you

I don't want to get in to a big thing, but what do you mean?

"We don't want to make White people uncomfortable, but we sure as hell will make Native Americans uncomfortable."

Considering that it says "Write letters from the different points of view listed in the questions." I'm assuming that there are prompts from both sides of this. So it's probably not as bad as it seems.

Cocytus posted...

Just do the assignment and shit the fuck up. You want your kid's education sterile...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/8/AAMAW6AACtns.jpg

Cocytus posted...

I don't want to get in to a big thing, but what do you mean?

That there's a massive push from the right to "sterilize" education and remove any evidence of wrongdoing while pushing out narratives from people of color, but somehow not asking students to uncritically write in the perspective of a genocidal colonizer is "sterilizing it"

Thanks Obama.

Sir_Gawain posted...

That there's a massive push from the right to "sterilize" education and remove any evidence of wrongdoing while pushing out narratives from people of color, but somehow not asking students to uncritically write in the perspective of a genocidal colonizer is "sterilizing it"

Pardon, the ellipses was meant to make that particular question rhetorical. Perhaps I should have put a rhetorical question mark to accompany it.

Cocytus posted...

Just do the assignment and shit the fuck up. You want your kid's education sterile...

Is the "correct" answer going to be listing incidents of the indigenous tribes fucking with settlers, or is this one of those things where you have to read the teacher's mind somehow?

Sir_Gawain posted...

Again, there is a way to critically teach how and why people have supported immoral things, but this is not it.

Why not though? I think putting yourself in the shoes of a historical figure is an established method of teaching this

And what grade level is this for

Because i kinda hope its like... high school AP level, and not 6th grade social studies

High school education: I work here

Questionmarktarius posted...

Is the "correct" answer going to be listing incidents of the indigenous tribes fucking with settlers, or is this one of those things where you have to read the teacher's mind somehow?

Doesn't matter. Do it, pass, move on. In the pursuit of education, you stand to get your feelings hurt over and over again. Just try reading Huckleberry Finn out loud to a high school English class. Here goes an accompanying assignment: "Write a letter from Jim's perspective on why he should be free". Or "Write a letter from the Widow Douglas about how she has a righty to her property."

Love when people with no background in education or pedagogy think they have any room to speak on it.

g980 posted...

Because i kinda hope its like... high school AP level, and not 6th grade social studies

The way it's worded doesn't suggest honors secondary to me. And even in that case, there are still better and more critical ways to word it.

Sir_Gawain posted...

Love when people with no background in education or pedagogy think they have any room to speak on it.

High School English teacher for 18 years. You got any credentials?

No this question is fucking stupid, racist, and genocidal.

If you think this is even close to an acceptable "education" you have brain problems.

Idk if it's being used this way but perhaps stuff like this can be used to identify kids who have similar trains of thought to those that did these things and give an opportunity to alter their way of thinking

Cocytus posted...

High School English teacher for 18 years. You got any credentials?

Maybe you should focus your outrage on calling out the Republicans trying to prevent you from teaching books that deal with issues of race or sexuality then, instead of pretending that uncritically asking students to excuse genocide is good pedagogy.

MA in English rhet-comp and teaching ESL, yes.

Sir_Gawain posted...

Maybe you should focus your outrage on calling out the Republicans trying to prevent you from teaching books that deal with issues of race or sexuality then, instead of pretending that uncritically asking students to excuse genocide is good pedagogy.

MA in English rhet-comp and teaching ESL, yes.

Yeah because that's what the question asks, right, please excuse genocide? As if no one in that era thought that way. Let's make sure the kids never know.

Jesus Christ. Once again, there are ways to approach what you think this prompt is getting at in a more critical fashion, and at a more appropriate grade level. Would "write a letter to Adolf Hitler explaining why you think the Final Solution will aid in Germany's prosperity" be a good prompt to you?

Very curious how that would be graded. If a kid leaned into the racism with why it's good to remove the Cherokee from their land for the growth of America.

Sir_Gawain posted...

Jesus Christ. Once again, there are ways to approach what you think this prompt is getting at in a more critical fashion, and at a more appropriate grade level. Would "write a letter to Adolf Hitler explaining why you think the Final Solution will aid in Germany's prosperity" be a good prompt to you?

Not the same thing though, is it. The view of an American Settler vs your personal opinion on the Final Solution.

You're just sensitive, inho. No offense. Newly minted teacher. I respect your view. I'm just saying her little prompt probably doesn't deserve the level of outrage you are trying to summon for it.

I worked in a charter.

Fuck charters.

Cocytus posted...

Not the same thing though, is it. The view of an American Settler vs your personal opinion on the Final Solution.

You're just sensitive, inho. No offense. Newly minted teacher. I respect your view. I'm just saying her little prompt probably doesn't deserve the level of outrage you are trying to summon for it.

"The view of an American settler vs the view of a pro-Nazi citizen in Germany" is what I'm getting at.

And I'm not a k-12 teacher, lol.

seems like a reasonable assignment for the right aged students (with the right teaching before it, to explain the pros, cons, and motivations for various actions), especially given that it says to write letters from different perspectives.

just because history judges actions as good/bad doesn't mean that people on any given side didn't have any reasonable intents for their approaches to particular issues. the point of this assignment would be to understand what the intentions might have been leading to certain actions by groups of people. that involves critical thinking and a level of understanding of nuance and psychology

Sir_Gawain posted...

"The view of an American settler vs the view of a pro-Nazi citizen in Germany" is what I'm getting at.

And I'm not a k-12 teacher, lol.

Then at your level it's a very relative prompt.

Sir_Gawain posted...

"The view of an American settler vs the view of a pro-Nazi citizen in Germany" is what I'm getting at.

And I'm not a k-12 teacher, lol.

and one could certainly write a letter explaining the perspectives of pro-Nazi citizens. it's not that hard. whether or not there is educational value in it would be the question.

Sir_Gawain posted...

Love when people with no background in education or pedagogy think they have any room to speak on it.

Welcome to the internet. Plenty of topics where people with no background in finance or econ think they know what theyre talking about - just how it is.

Fam_Fam posted...

seems like a reasonable assignment for the right aged students (with the right teaching before it, to explain the pros, cons, and motivations for various actions), especially given that it says to write letters from different perspectives.

just because history judges actions as good/bad doesn't mean that people on any given side didn't have any reasonable intents for their approaches to particular issues. the point of this assignment would be to understand what the intentions might have been leading to certain actions by groups of people. that involves critical thinking and a level of understanding of nuance and psychology

See the problem was that the INTENT was racist and genocidal even back then, and to say "maybe they had good intention and didn't know no bedda" is dog whistling for white supremacy.

Fam_Fam posted...

and one could certainly write a letter explaining the perspectives of pro-Nazi citizens. it's not that hard. whether or not there is educational value in it would be the question.

Yes, but it would need to be framed in the right context. Again, a critical lens is the key here. "Write a letter to Hitler as if you were a German citizen explaining why you support the final solution" is firmly *not* that. And again, grade level is an important consideration here. The way the slide is worded heavily suggests that it's not high school or honors level work.

I fail to see anything outlandish about the question, but of course the presentation is entirely without the context of the overall lesson. Depending on the complete context of the lesson plan this could go either way.

But unto itself? Putting yourself into the mindset of people you almost certainly would disagree with (and this is why I think the corollary question from PoV of the Cherokee wouldn't be particularly useful) is a very important part of developing critical thinking adults. Trying to understand how and why a group can convince themselves into something bad/evil will allow them to better recognize when the same patterns are repeating in the world around them(think Jan 6 or election fraud).

Is this the most effective way to accomplish, maybe not, but as said I can't find anything here so egregious as to clutch my pearls.