Poll of the Day > Cowboy Bebop live action is out on Netflix today

(+) Yeah! (+)

10 episodes, each one about 40-50 minswill watch some tonight, have no idea how its gonna be

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Probably crap. I'll watch it eventually though.
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My wife, daughter, and I just finished watching/re-watching the anime and movie in anticipation for tonight so we'll at least watch the 1st episode

Good or bad I'm shocked there's actually a live action Bebop after 10+ years of talk

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Everyone says it sucks.

I wasnt a big fan of the original series. It was ok. So no way Im gonna bother w this.

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Conner4REAL posted...

Everyone says it sucks.

Who is this "everyone" you speak of, and how have they watched the whole thing already?

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i feel like watching the og before this is just setting up for disappointment
im going in no expectations and not having seen the anime in yeeaaars so itd be hard to let me down

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TheSlinja posted...

i feel like watching the og before this is just setting up for disappointment
im going in no expectations and not having seen the anime in yeeaaars so itd be hard to let me down

Was going to say this. Watching the original to prepare for this is pretty much the worst possible thing anyone could ever do.
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Mike Xtreme posted...

Good or bad I'm shocked there's actually a live action Bebop after 10+ years of talk

Even the anime characters were shocked.

https://imgur.com/0qr9mKo

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Bugmeat posted...

Even the anime characters were shocked.

https://imgur.com/0qr9mKo

Everyone but Ed, who can be seen slipping offscreen before it's too late, and Netflix ruins their character in dreadful ways.

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I texted my friend about it



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We need a live action lobster episode.
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i'm about a half hour into the first episode, and already had 2 extremely major retcons for literally absolutely no reason.

jet now has a 6 year old daughter, despite not having kids because his wife left him when he was a still a cop

and they get faye in the first episode, despite her not even appearing until the 3rd episode.

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its fine if its not the anime beat for beat, that wpuld be pointless, I just hope its entertaining

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I would have been surprised if it WASN'T bad. Netflix as a rule is 85-90% misses with occasional gems. The shows that they bring based of existing properties though (Death Note, Witcher, and Cowboy Bebop) are almost never in the "gems" category.

Netflix doesn't care though, probably never even considered whether it was important or not that all these shows they pop out are actually good, just that they draw people in.

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it looks terrible, but i honestly have no desire to watch it, regardless of quality. if i wanna watch bebop i have it on DVD without all the weird style and character nerfs. this is the kind of show that should only be done with a disney budget imo, and even then i don't think i'd want it.

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Sweet I didnt realize it was a series. Tried to watch the anime with my wife but she couldnt get into it. She just isnt big on animated stuff unless its Disney.

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

Sweet I didnt realize it was a series. Tried to watch the anime with my wife but she couldnt get into it. She just isnt big on animated stuff unless its Disney.

And? Doesn't mean you should watch it and support garbage.

TheSlinja posted...

its fine if its not the anime beat for beat, that wpuld be pointless, I just hope its entertaining

the first episode cut out a bunch of plot that the anime had, added in a bunch of nonsense retcons, and then also made the episode longer than the original

i don't really have faith for the rest, it's probably just going to make me upset

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Saw the first episode

It was pretty good

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I liked the first episode. The small story changes are not retcons. This is not a continuation of the story previously told but a new adaptation with minor story differences.

The format changes, 50 min vs. 25 min, and being live action made some changes necessary. Attempting to flesh out character motivations required minor story changes.

But they certainly did not retcon the original cowboy bepop anime. This would need to be a continuation of that story, revising the past, to allow for the changes for the live action differences to be considered retcons.

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Arcturusisnow posted...

And? Doesn't mean you should watch it and support garbage.

I havent seen it? Are you seriously gonna get butthurt about a stranger making up their own mind about something?

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SunWuKung420 posted...

The small story changes are not retcons.

...uh, they absolutely are

jet not having children is actually a plot point for a story arc later on. that story arc is now going to be completely and fundamentally different, or just not happen at all

faye showing up when they did completely ruins the entire setup and motivation for that character in episode 3 onwards.

and yes, they're retcons. it's completely changing an established things story and lore, like retcons do

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They are story changes in a new adaptation, not retconning.

"Retcon is a shortened form of retroactive continuity, and refers to a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established narrative is changed. Retcons are often encountered in serial formats such as comic books or television series, where they serve as a means of allowing the works creators to create a parallel universe, reintroduce a character, or explore plot lines that would otherwise be in conflict with the work. Essentially, a retcon allows an author to have his or her cake and eat it too, as it enables the return of dead characters, the revision of unpopular elements of a work, and a general disregard for reality."

They aren't expanding on the story. Retconning requires this new live action adaptation to be expansion on the previously known story, which it isn't. It's a slightly rewritten story of the original work, like how Hollywood changes Stephen King novels to fit the movie format.

Retconning is how bad authors fix stuff that conflicts with stuff they already wrote in past chapters or episodes.

The live action isn't a continuation of the previously told cowboy bebop story. It's a new adaptation of the story with minor changes to fit the new format and flesh out characters to a new audience, not a retcon change happening in the future after the end of the previous story.

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DrYuya posted...

I would have been surprised if it WASN'T bad. Netflix as a rule is 85-90% misses with occasional gems. The shows that they bring based of existing properties though (Death Note, Witcher, and Cowboy Bebop) are almost never in the "gems" category.

Netflix doesn't care though, probably never even considered whether it was important or not that all these shows they pop out are actually good, just that they draw people in.

The Witcher show is based off the books, not the games.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Retconning is how bad authors fix stuff that conflicts with stuff they already wrote in past chapters or episodes.

So you agree Kishimoto is a bad writer.
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Pass. I am headed to Wheel of Time on Prime Video instead.

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Revelation34 posted...

So you agree Kishimoto is a bad writer.

I never said that and I disagree.

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I_Abibde posted...

Pass. I am headed to Wheel of Time on Prime Video instead.

what is that one about? Im kinda bored with the fantasy genre currently. Tried watching that Shadow and Bone show on Netflix and idk I couldnt get into it

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The anime is overrated as hell

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

what is that one about?

Difficult to explain. The novel series has 15 LOTR-sized books in it, and there is a lot happening in there.


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PeterPumpknhead posted...

what is that one about? Im kinda bored with the fantasy genre currently. Tried watching that Shadow and Bone show on Netflix and idk I couldnt get into it

WoT is about the reincarnation of the most powerful man in history, and his friends, who must leave their home village because it falls under attack from a race of bipedal creatures that serve an evil godlike being. So the series deals with them coming to grips with the destiny involved with getting to fight the final battle against said evil. Plus a million words or more of filler arcs, often involving the society of bitchy witches.

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I_Abibde posted...

Pass. I am headed to Wheel of Time on Prime Video instead.

I have no faith in it being good. I'd love to see it done as an animated series though. One season per book. If I had the money to pay to have it made that way, I definitely would.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

I never said that and I disagree.

You said retconning is a sign of a bad writer.

Entity13 posted...

WoT is about the reincarnation of the most powerful man in history, and his friends, who must leave their home village because it falls under attack from a race of bipedal creatures that serve an evil godlike being. So the series deals with them coming to grips with the destiny involved with getting to fight the final battle against said evil. Plus a million words or more of filler arcs, often involving the society of bitchy witches.

Sounds like the plot to the Witcher.
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St_Kevin posted...

Saw the first episode

It was pretty good

yeah I thought it was good. Im still confused as to why they felt the need to make it in the first placebut hey, atleast it might bring in a new audience

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I_Abibde posted...

Difficult to explain. The novel series has 15 LOTR-sized books in it, and there is a lot happening in there.

First bunch of books were insanely good, and long enough that you could have years of seasons (I'd say 2-3 seasons per book to do it right). It would cost WAY to much I think to do it live action, so animated would make the most sense and would be awesome, but even live action could be better then the Witcher and I love the Witcher.

It's an Epic Fantasy story done right, better then SOIAF in my opinion, at least till you get far into it. It started getting downright depressing and sad by like the 7th book or so, and eventually I would skip everyones stories except for Mat's (and I tried to keep reading Rands as well).

Matt what my favorite character by far.

I'm looking forward to watching it on amazon (have it now but I only have 2 more days of HBO max so I'm trying to finish a few shows on there before it gets canceled).

Anyway I would HIGHLY recommend reading the series, even if it does peter off long term. I really need to try again someday and see if I can finish it (never read the last books). Maybe even see if I can actually you know, read the other characters parts after book 6 or 7 or whenever I stopped.

Up to that point, for the first buncha books, I would re-read all of them every time a new one came out.....only other series I ever did that for was Dresden, and i didn't do that every time like I did for WoT, and of course, they are also far shorter.

One of the best epic fantasy series in my opinion. The Belgariad is also amazing and a few others were great in the past, but yeah WoT is awesome, I hope they do a good job making it into a show.

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Revelation34 posted...

Sounds like the plot to the Witcher.

mmnope
wolfy42 posted...

It's an Epic Fantasy story done right, better then SOIAF in my opinion, at least till you get far into it. It started getting downright depressing and sad by like the 7th book or so, and eventually I would skip everyones stories except for Mat's (and I tried to keep reading Rands as well).

Matt what my favorite character by far.

Mat absolutely was the best character is the series. Moraine was second imo, and she is gone from halfway through book five until the last three or four books when an end to the filler arcs was finally in sight.

Also, yeah, the books started to dip in quality with the fifth one, got good again with the ninth, had the awkward, almost unnecessary tenth where everyone reacted to the climax of the ninth, and then it started getting good again with the eleventh before Robert Jordan died. Then Brandon Sanderson came in, split the twelfth book into three, and they were a good ending to a series that went far longer than it should have.

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TheSlinja posted...

its fine if its not the anime beat for beat, that wpuld be pointless, I just hope its entertaining

Even in Japan, you'll get anime that is totally different from the manga it's based on, and then they'll come out with a later anime that's different from the previous two, or a movie that's different from all of those, and so on. They're not huge on franchise continuity.

That being said, the problem most people have with Western adaptations of manga/anime isn't that it's different from the original, as much as because it's different in blatantly stupid ways that don't make the adaptation more entertaining.
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Even the Japanese live-action adaptations of stuff like Kenshin, Death Note, and FMA made changes to the story and characters

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Even in Japan, you'll get anime that is totally different from the manga it's based on, and then they'll come out with a later anime that's different from the previous two, or a movie that's different from all of those, and so on. They're not huge on franchise continuity.

That being said, the problem most people have with Western adaptations of manga/anime isn't that it's different from the original, as much as because it's different in blatantly stupid ways that don't make the adaptation more entertaining.

uh huh

and the changes they keep making are fuckin stupid

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Entity13 posted...

mmnope

Mat absolutely was the best character is the series. Moraine was second imo, and she is gone from halfway through book five until the last three or four books when an end to the filler arcs was finally in sight.

Also, yeah, the books started to dip in quality with the fifth one, got good again with the ninth, had the awkward, almost unnecessary tenth where everyone reacted to the climax of the ninth, and then it started getting good again with the eleventh before Robert Jordan died. Then Brandon Sanderson came in, split the twelfth book into three, and they were a good ending to a series that went far longer than it should have.

Book ten is definitely the worst of the bunch. Feels like nothing happens in it.

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dragon504 posted...

Book ten is definitely the worst of the bunch. Feels like nothing happens in it.

You've just described books 7-11.

After the first few books, it became obvious that Jordan was just padding them out with more and more filler and constantly added new characters and plot points so he never had to pay off on any of the existing ones. Because he realized just how hard he could milk this series that was only supposed to be a trilogy in the first place.

It was one of the reasons why Sanderson taking over was a welcome relief - he actually finished things.
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dragon504 posted...

Book ten is definitely the worst of the bunch. Feels like nothing happens in it.

Like I said, it feels like everyone who wasn't there at the end of book nine is reacting to the events of book nine, especially the climactic battle that cleansed The Source, and we could have maybe done without book ten. I didn't hate ten as much as some fans did, but it did seem like pointless filler that could have been made into an optional short story, with unimportant or non-reoccurring characters, on Jordan's website. But nope. Ten exists as a whole book.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

You've just described books 7-11.

Eh, I'd argue more that the main conflict was reduced to formulaic boss battle of the week, the filler went to harsh extremes, that nine showed hope for salvation, then ten happened to the dismay and jeers of the fanbase, and Jordan was like "Fine, I will work on finishing this series!" Then he wrote the return-to-form eleven, started twelve with a truckload of notes, and died.

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Lol, I really keep meaning to get back and finish that series, since I loved the start so much. I do have all the books in ebook format, just have not actually gotten through all the early books before a new dresden book or a LitRPG series comes along and distracts me.

Thing is, initially, I really liked all the characters in the first few books.

I can't even really put a pin on how/when i stopped liking Perrin or caring about his story. Started off awesome since I love wolves, but eventually I just couldn't read his story arcs anymore.

Maybe Rands story got better down the road but by book 7-8 it was just so depressing I was forcing myself to read his parts since he was kinda the "main" character. I do think I made it to book 9, but was only reading Matts parts by then, and if 10 was the worst, maybe...I actually made it to 10 and that killed it for me?

I dont' know it's been so long, but damn did I love that series at first. I still enjoy re-reading the early books but then later when it becomes all politics and just splits all over the place, and I stop losing interest in many of the characters, I just can't force myself to read through it again, so I never actually get to finish the story.

Maybe the show will inspire me lol. Also I had WAY more patience when I was younger, now if I lose interest in a book, I don't read a freaking book a day (or WoT sized ones in a few days), it takes me weeks to read something, so if it's boring, I just give up.

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Entity13 posted...

Eh, I'd argue more that the main conflict was reduced to formulaic boss battle of the week, the filler went to harsh extremes, that nine showed hope for salvation, then ten happened to the dismay and jeers of the fanbase, and Jordan was like "Fine, I will work on finishing this series!" Then he wrote the return-to-form eleven, started twelve with a truckload of notes, and died.

Nah, I feel like 9 was just as bad as the rest. It just tricks you into thinking it's better because he throws out the "Oh yeah, I totally accomplished the biggest miracle in the entire series as a throwaway in the last couple chapters. Whee!" thing.

The irony is, in a series that takes 40 chapters to tell story most other authors could tell in 2, the most important event in the entire series comes across feeling like a rushed afterthought. It's about the only thing in the entire franchise I wish he'd actually spent more time on.

But it tricks you because it jars you awake for the first time in multiple books, and gets you going "Oh shit, wait, stuff is happening again?!" But then the next book is mostly just "Hah hah, fooled you" and you go back to sleep.

The main reason why people complained about 10 more than previous books is because it was the first time in years that they came out of their apathy comas.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Nah, I feel like 9 was just as bad as the rest. It just tricks you into thinking it's better because he throws out the "Oh yeah, I totally accomplished the biggest miracle in the entire series as a throwaway in the last couple chapters. Whee!

The irony is, in a series that takes 40 chapters to tell story most other authors could tell in 2, the most important even in the entire series comes across feeling like a rushed afterthought. It's about the only thing in the entire franchise I wish he'd actually spent more time on.

But it tricks you because it jars you awake for the first time in multiple books, and gets you going "Oh shit, wait, stuff is happening again?!" then the next book is mostly just "Hah hah, fooled you" and you go back to sleep.

The main reason why people complained about 10 more than previous books is because it was the first time in years that t

Jeez, glad it wasn't just me. Guess I should have read fan forums or something lol.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Nah, I feel like 9 was just as bad as the rest. It just tricks you into thinking it's better because he throws out the "Oh yeah, I totally accomplished the biggest miracle in the entire series as a throwaway in the last couple chapters. Whee!

The irony is, in a series that takes 40 chapters to tell story most other authors could tell in 2, the most important even in the entire series comes across feeling like a rushed afterthought. It's about the only thing in the entire franchise I wish he'd actually spent more time on.

But it tricks you because it jars you awake for the first time in multiple books, and gets you going "Oh shit, wait, stuff is happening again?!" But then the next book is mostly just "Hah hah, fooled you" and you go back to sleep.

The main reason why people complained about 10 more than previous books is because it was the first time in years that they came out of their apathy comas.

That's not entirely accurate. Nine had pacing issues, yes, but it built up within the one book rather than being an afterthought; albeit it took too long to get to this point because of books six through eight (and some of five). Rand had a goal, his allies had to be talked into going on this dangerous venture, and the Dark Ones had their generic "Kill the good guys, especially now" goal.

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wolfy42 posted...

I can't even really put a pin on how/when i stopped liking Perrin or caring about his story.

Was it when he became utterly whipped and completely subservient to his love interest?

It's been mentioned that Jordan's wife had a significant influence on the story, and when they mention that a lot of the character/personality of Nynaeve was based on her, I was like, "Ohhh, so much of this story makes more sense now."



wolfy42 posted...

Also I had WAY more patience when I was younger, now if I lose interest in a book, I don't read a freaking book a day (or WoT sized ones in a few days), it takes me weeks to read something, so if it's boring, I just give up.

I've mentioned this in other contexts before, but I think a lot of that sort of mentality comes down to the fact that there's more media in the world today than ever before in history. More than any one person could ever hope to consume even in a much longer lifetime.

So with so many options and so many choices, there's really no reason to suffer through something that isn't exciting you. Whether it's a game or a show or a book or something else, you can always move on and find something far more interesting and fun with minimal effort.

It's why I always say I don't like "Frustration Gaming" (ie, games like Dark Souls), where you fail 99 times so that the 1 time you succeed is a much stronger rush. I no longer have the time or patience for gameplay like that - I'd rather get the lesser rush from succeeding 99 times out of 100 in a game that is interesting in other ways (which is why I tend to play story-heavy games on the most casual difficulty - I get far more out of them that way).

If something doesn't grab you immediately, there are a thousand other things screaming for your attention at all times. And the older you get, the less free time you have to devote to any of it. There's no time to indulge mediocrity.
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Entity13 posted...

but it built up within the one book rather than being an afterthought; albeit it took too long to get to this point because of books six through eight (and some of five). Rand had a goal, his allies had to be talked into going on this dangerous venture, and the Dark Ones had their generic "Kill the good guys, especially now" goal.

That's where I'd disagree, though. The "build up" felt exactly like all the other filler before it. Which is why the ending feels like it comes so utterly out of nowhere.

There's basically a moment where Rand goes "Okay, it's time to stop dicking around and just DO it", which is more or less how the entire audience has been feeling for years at that point. But when it happens the entire plot floors the accelerator out of nowhere.

It's not really a natural and slow-building progression, it's the equivalent of procrastinating for two weeks and then finishing your term paper the night before it's due.

The plot is basically plateaued for multiple books, then it dramatically spikes, then it mostly goes right back to the plateau.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's why I always say I don't like "Frustration Gaming" (ie, games like Dark Souls), where you fail 99 times so that the 1 time you succeed is a much stronger rush. I no longer have the time or patience for gameplay like that - I'd rather get the lesser rush from succeeding 99 times out of 100 in a game that is interesting in other ways (which is why I tend to play story-heavy games on the most casual difficulty - I get far more out of them that way).

If something doesn't grab you immediately, there are a thousand other things screaming for your attention at all times. And the older you get, the less free time you have to devote to any of it. There's no time to indulge mediocrity.

Yeah, I get that and agree to a point. Dark souls though for me isn't (usually) frustration gaming, as I was always good enough to beat most fights after a few times (thank god) and that was without summoning help. I never actually had to summon help in order to beat a fight before getting frustrated with it (so far...but I think Elder ring is going to be actually over all easier combat wise).

But there are games like that which I just don't play, I have no patience for frustration gaming at this point and wouldn't be able to play many games in the past where you had to do a whole level over again if you died etc...forget that lol.

I do think your right and it has to do with having so much entertainment/media, so many shows to watch, games to play, if something starts to get old, you just move on to something else fresh and never finish it.

Technically Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't REALLY worse then KH1 (at least not massively), but I replayed KH1 many times and loved it, but I have not yet finished KH3 even once. I'm a different person then I was then, and it takes alot more to grab my attention and keep it.

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wolfy42 posted...

Technically Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't REALLY worse then KH1 (at least not massively), but I replayed KH1 many times and loved it, but I have not yet finished KH3 even once. I'm a different person then I was then, and it takes alot more to grab my attention and keep it.

For me the problem there is that, whereas KH1 is a fun combination of Final Fantasy characters I like combined with the childhood nostalgia of Disney characters, KH3 is mostly focused on their OC DONUT STEEL characters and backstory that I don't give a shit about, plus mostly modern Disney and Pixar characters I don't give a shit about.

It also doesn't help that the games sort of expect you to play the 47 other side-titles mostly only released on the DS to get the full story. Yeah, I'm not doing that. It was annoying enough when KH2 referenced back to Chain of Memories so much. I ain't got time for your shit, Nomura.
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