Current Events > Explain why they would fire nurses in the middle of a pandemic.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Why are you assuming these nurses have natural immunity?

So you think that there aren't any nurses who have had covid or been around covid to build successful antibodies?

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TerraSeeker posted...

Politics. At this point those nurse probably already got natural immunity. They just want to punish those who won't get in line.

Natural immunity does not protect you from new strains.


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candyapplered posted...

Is the yearly flu vaccine mandatory for nurses?

Its mandatory for everybody who work in the hospital setting.

you look stupid without a flu tag on your ID.

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Trumble posted...

It's hilarious how antivaxxers genuinely believe this is some big secret that's being kept from everyone. No, everyone is very well aware that it doesn't guarantee you will not catch the virus. Everyone is also, for that matter, very well aware that it doesn't guarantee you won't transmit it, or that you won't get symptomatic, or that you won't die.

But only antivaxxers seem to have a problem grasping the concept of that just because something isn't perfect, doesn't mean it doesn't help at all.

Or in other words - it's not that the rest of us don't know that it doesn't always prevent you catching the virus. It's that the rest of us know - and have the capacity to comprehend - the proper fucking context of that claim.

lol I love how freely the term "anti-vax" is thrown around just to discredit honest questions about the implementation of mandates regarding the vaccine. I don't think anyone here is saying they're against vaccines or they think the vaccine is ineffective. I think people here are saying it's unproductive to force nurses and others to get the vaccine when natural immunity is proven to be stronger.

The mandates aren't following the science.

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If you have natural immunity get the vaccine too and stop whining.

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You can't track who's had covid, so people will just lie if that's an acceptable substitute. You can track who's had the vaccine.

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billcom6 posted...

If you have natural immunity get the vaccine too and stop whining.

This is unscientific and unnecessary. The data shows those who have natural immunity have STRONGER antibodies that last LONGER than someone with double doses.

Get the vaccine if you want but people shouldn't have to lose their jobs for choosing their superior immunity over getting the vaccine.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Get the vaccine if you want but people shouldn't have to lose their jobs for choosing their superior immunity over getting the vaccine.

They don't lose their natural immunity by getting the vaccine.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

I think people here are saying it's unproductive to force nurses and others to get the vaccine when natural immunity is proven to be stronger.

You keep repeating this claim, but it's false. As has been pointed out to you many, many times, firstly, natural immunity is NOT stronger than vaccine-induced immunity; and secondly it is also not mutually exclusive with vaccine-induced immunity (and no, your claim that it "increases the risk of catching the delta variant" is also false).

I'm honestly surprised you haven't been suspended for misinformation ye--- oh right, the rules changed ever since Mental_Daxter went on his little rant, because giving another mod an "out" is far more important than shutting down potentially dangerous misinformation. >_>

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-GalacticBass- posted...

This is unscientific and unnecessary. The data shows those who have natural immunity have STRONGER antibodies that last LONGER than someone with double doses.

Get the vaccine if you want but people shouldn't have to lose their jobs for choosing their superior immunity over getting the vaccine.

I have natural immunity and got the vaccine because there's no downside to that and I'm not trying to avoid the vaccine for various illogical reasons like anti-vaccine morons are.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

lol I love how freely the term "anti-vax" is thrown around just to discredit honest questions about the implementation of mandates regarding the vaccine. I don't think anyone here is saying they're against vaccines or they think the vaccine is ineffective. I think people here are saying it's unproductive to force nurses and others to get the vaccine when natural immunity is proven to be stronger.

The mandates aren't following the science.

That's the big problem.

You'd have basically 0 pushback if everything followed the science. But it seems to go:
Money > Politics > Science

The 1st and only priority should be "what is the safest way to help the most people, as determined 100% by science and 0% by money and politics".

PS: For the record I don't necessarily agree that natural immunity is "more effective than the vaccine" (it's very likely not in all cases). But I do believe it's dumb as shit to ignore or not factor in for both safety and efficacy analysis.

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pegusus123456 posted...

You can't track who's had covid, so people will just lie if that's an acceptable substitute. You can track who's had the vaccine.

Then don't make vaccines mandatory and make covid tests mandatory. Hospitals are already short handed. They're just shooting themselves in the foot and causing people who need emergency help wait longer when they start letting go of all these nurses.

I assure you, people will needlessly suffer from the amount of nurses being let go.

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I wonder what kindve backlash antibiotics would get if the bubonic plague came back around full swing

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joe40001 posted...

That's the big problem.

You'd have basically 0 pushback if everything followed the science. But it seems to go:
Money > Politics > Science

The 1st and only priority should be "what is the safest way to help the most people, as determined 100% by science and 0% by money and politics".

Ok let's eliminate money and politics

Oh look, vaccines are still the most effective way to curb a contagious disease.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Then don't make vaccines mandatory and make covid tests mandatory.

Waste of time and resources.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Waste of time and resources.

But you realize those who are vaccinated still get covid right? They'll have less symptoms and may not even know they have it. Yet they'll go to work and may spread it unintentionally. Same for those who have natural immunity.

So if those who are naturally immune and who are vaccinated can still spread covid, then why not mandate covid tests instead?

It makes perfect sense.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

This is unscientific and unnecessary. The data shows those who have natural immunity have STRONGER antibodies that last LONGER than someone with double doses.

Get the vaccine if you want but people shouldn't have to lose their jobs for choosing their superior immunity over getting the vaccine.

https://tinyurl.com/sd5dcsu8 Arstechnica, sorry for the shortner.

Quit spreading misinformation, JAQoff.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Then don't make vaccines mandatory and make covid tests mandatory. Hospitals are already short handed. They're just shooting themselves in the foot and causing people who need emergency help wait longer when they start letting go of all these nurses.

I assure you, people will needlessly suffer from the amount of nurses being let go.

How mad are you at unvaccinated COVID patients filling up hospitals and making other people in need of medical care needlessly suffer? How mad are you at them for spreading the virus and causing needless suffering?

30% of cooks in America could start pissing in their dishes and millions of Americans would criticize the resultant mass firing as "causing needless suffering" to the hungry.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

But you realize those who are vaccinated still get covid right? They'll have less symptoms and may not even know they have it. Yet they'll go to work and may spread it unintentionally. Same for those who have natural immunity.

So if those who are naturally immune and who are vaccinated can still spread covid, then why not mandate covid tests instead?

It makes perfect sense.

You are trying to get people killed and the mods should stop it. Vaccines are the best and safest answer and the only path to victory.

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Oh no, GalacticBass is spreading misinformation again. That shit should seriously be a baneable offense on sight. But post an image of Gundam Marchosias on the Genshin board after that game's version of Marchosias gets revealed and it gets deleted in 3 minutes for being off topic.

Nice job moderation staff, hope the admins are ready if and when they face the legal consequences of their actions.

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AldousIsDead posted...

https://tinyurl.com/sd5dcsu8 Arstechnica, sorry for the shortner.

Quit spreading misinformation, JAQoff.

That's a website where people post their opinions. Here's some actual data...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1?fbclid=IwAR3BzOb_2MLXXnMUqriL_Gyh6UlYolNiSf4d66oYeDcySkkFFoSmKIUUCLs


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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Oh no, GalacticBass is spreading misinformation again. That shit should seriously be a baneable offense on sight. But post an image of Gundam Marchosias on the Genshin board after that game's version of Marchosias gets revealed and it gets deleted in 3 minutes for being off topic.

Nice job moderation staff, hope the admins are ready if and when they face the legal consequences of their actions.

Him and Joe "I'm not an anti-vax conspiracy theorist just because I accuse most of the medical community of denying the truth because Big Pharma and Silicon Valley tell them to" Numbers

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I would honestly like to know how asking questions and having a discussion is spreading misinformation.

Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm spreading misinformation. It's good to have debates about complex issues. That's how we solve them.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

Ok let's eliminate money and politics

Oh look, vaccines are still the most effective way to curb a contagious disease.

Yeah, I believe the vaccine is currently the best option, that's why I endorse it.
And that's different than endorsing a mandate.
Also I don't see the harm in way more covid testing.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

That's a website where people post their opinions. Here's some actual data...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1?fbclid=IwAR3BzOb_2MLXXnMUqriL_Gyh6UlYolNiSf4d66oYeDcySkkFFoSmKIUUCLs

From your own fucking link you illiterate fuck:

Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

asking questions

At least they don't make it subtle
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Also I never said nor am I saying to not get the vaccine. If you want to get the vaccine, go for it. It helps. I'm saying we should look at the science and data when it comes to mandates.

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If unvaccinated nurses start taking care of my patients, it puts my medical license at risk and Im quitting. Im a lot harder to replace.

-GalacticBass- posted...

I would honestly like to know how asking questions and having a discussion is spreading misinformation.

Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm spreading misinformation. It's good to have debates about complex issues. That's how we solve them.

There is no debate. There are right answers and wrong answers. Solutions and not. Do you care about science or not?

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I wouldn't trust a nurse who didn't get a vaccine regardless. If you don't trust medical science, get the fuck out of the medical science profession.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

From your own fucking link you illiterate fuck:

No need for curse words. Calm down.

Did you read the link? It specifically states that those who have natural immunity have better protection than those who have had two vaccine shots.

It also says that those who have natural immunity AND get a shot are further protected from delta.

Now that's great. But does every nurse who has been vaccinated also have natural immunity? Because if they don't then they are at more risk for delta. And you can't track that.

So again, it comes down to testing.

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joe40001 posted...

Yeah, I believe the vaccine is currently the best option, that's why I endorse it.
And that's different than endorsing a mandate.
Also I don't see the harm in way more covid testing.

Then you don't support vaccinations.

"Yeah, this is the solution to the problem, but maybe we should just let people make up their own solutions and hope the problem goes away by itself?"

Maybe we should just let people construct buildings with asbestos if they feel like it. What kind of fascists would we be to eliminate personal choice?

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-GalacticBass- posted...

No need for curse words. Calm down.

Seven hundred thousand people dead, there's absolutely a need for curse words, and you can go fuck yourself.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Then don't make vaccines mandatory and make covid tests mandatory. Hospitals are already short handed. They're just shooting themselves in the foot and causing people who need emergency help wait longer when they start letting go of all these nurses.

I assure you, people will needlessly suffer from the amount of nurses being let go.

Covid tests aren't always going to pick up that someone's had it in the past. Antibody tests to verify it would be a huge waste of time when they could just make them get the easily-verified vaccine.

And you're still ignoring the fact that your claims about natural vs vaccine immunity, and your claims about the vaccine's effect on vulnerability to the Delta variant, are completely false.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

That's a website where people post their opinions. Here's some actual data...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1?fbclid=IwAR3BzOb_2MLXXnMUqriL_Gyh6UlYolNiSf4d66oYeDcySkkFFoSmKIUUCLs

A worthy comment at bottom of the article:

To the study authors:
As an epidemiologist, if I was reviewing this paper for publication I would send it back to you for major revisions or reject it outright. I would not even bother looking at the results.
The major issue is that you have conditioned study group entry by an event that happens at the end of the study. I.e. you have created a cohort of unvaccinated persons who must remain unvaccinated throughout the study. This is guaranteed to introduce selection bias, more specifically immortal-time bias. This further guarantees a biased estimate. This topic has been written about many times. Cf any of many articles by Sammie Souza at McGill.
Imagine someone in your unvaccinated cohort. Soon after the initial study date they develop an infection. 5 weeks later they have recovered and decided they should have had the vaccine, so they get one. Because you have insisted this group remain vaccine free you throw them out of the group and you lose their data. You have just thrown out an infection. Do this just a few times and it is guaranteed that your unvaccinated group is not reporting as many infections as it actually experienced. This easily accounts for the effect you report.
Note that this does NOT happen with the fully vaccinated/boosted group who must receive all vaccinations prior to study entry. You capture each and every infection with no drop out. Thus youve created a situation where you have non-random drop-out between the groups. That is selection bias.
To get around this problem you MUST use methods such as Cox proportional hazards modeling with time-varying exposure variables so that persons can move between cohorts based on exposure to the vaccine during the study period

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bladegash posted...

A worthy comment at bottom of the article:

To the study authors:
As an epidemiologist, if I was reviewing this paper for publication I would send it back to you for major revisions or reject it outright. I would not even bother looking at the results.
The major issue is that you have conditioned study group entry by an event that happens at the end of the study. I.e. you have created a cohort of unvaccinated persons who must remain unvaccinated throughout the study. This is guaranteed to introduce selection bias, more specifically immortal-time bias. This further guarantees a biased estimate. This topic has been written about many times. Cf any of many articles by Sammie Souza at McGill.
Imagine someone in your unvaccinated cohort. Soon after the initial study date they develop an infection. 5 weeks later they have recovered and decided they should have had the vaccine, so they get one. Because you have insisted this group remain vaccine free you throw them out of the group and you lose their data. You have just thrown out an infection. Do this just a few times and it is guaranteed that your unvaccinated group is not reporting as many infections as it actually experienced. This easily accounts for the effect you report.
Note that this does NOT happen with the fully vaccinated/boosted group who must receive all vaccinations prior to study entry. You capture each and every infection with no drop out. Thus youve created a situation where you have non-random drop-out between the groups. That is selection bias.
To get around this problem you MUST use methods such as Cox proportional hazards modeling with time-varying exposure variables so that persons can move between cohorts based on exposure to the vaccine during the study period

It also literally says the study has not been peer reviewed. Hmm, you'd these hesitant question askers would want to make sure the data has gone thrown all proper channels before calling it truth.

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Seriously, what is so fucking hard about this. Everyone should get the damn shot unless it will literally kill you to do so. It's been almost a year since we've had vaccines now and we're still trying to deal with these shit stirrers.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Seven hundred thousand people dead, there's absolutely a need for curse words, and you can go fuck yourself.

Do you think it's beneficial for your position to curse at me? Like if you're trying to convince me of your belief, wouldn't it be more helpful to provide me with the reasoning of your position?

I'm all for discussion and for learning and I'm simply asking honest questions. No need for hate.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

jesus fuck, where are the fucking mods on this, why is this GalacticAss fool not suspended already

You know how I've said a few times as a joke, that I thought they'd made anti-vaxx stuff no longer moddable ever since the Mental_Daxter incident?

I'm honestly starting to think that it isn't just a joke.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

It also literally says the study has not been peer reviewed. Hmm, you'd these hesitant question askers would want to make sure the data has gone thrown all proper channels before calling it truth.

Hmm this is an interesting response. I hadn't thought of that nor had I seen that comment.

This is why discussion is a good thing.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Do you think it's beneficial for your position to curse at me? Like if you're trying to convince me of your belief, wouldn't it be more helpful to provide me with the reasoning of your position?

You're pulling more bullshit out of your ass than a steer, there's no reason to reasonably converse with your lying, murderous ass.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Do you think it's beneficial for your position to curse at me? Like if you're trying to convince me of your belief, wouldn't it be more helpful to provide me with the reasoning of your position?

I'm all for discussion and for learning and I'm simply asking honest questions. No need for hate.

No, you are not, because you are citing flawed studies while point-blank ignoring it being pointed out to you that your claims are based on false information.

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Trumble posted...

You know how I've said a few times as a joke, that I thought they'd made anti-vaxx stuff no longer moddable ever since the Mental_Daxter incident?

I'm honestly starting to think that it isn't just a joke.

Keep calling me anti vax all you want but it doesn't make it true.

I think you're just anti me lol.

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-GalacticBass- posted...

Do you think it's beneficial for your position to curse at me? Like if you're trying to convince me of your belief, wouldn't it be more helpful to provide me with the reasoning of your position?

I don't give a single fuck what you think. I want you to shut the fuck up and for the moderation staff to do their work.

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What kind of dumbass nurse doesnt get vaxxed

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Pretty sure they will sack firefighters who are actively setting more fires as well.
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-GalacticBass- posted...

Keep calling me anti vax all you want but it doesn't make it true.

I think you're just anti me lol.

I certainly am you disingenuous fuck.

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ReignFury posted...

What kind of dumbass nurse doesnt get vaxxed

One that should be fired.

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ReignFury posted...

What kind of dumbass nurse doesnt get vaxxed

Too fuckin many.

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