Board 8 > Been working on Metroid Retrospective Pt2 lately. C/D Zero Mission is the GOAT

(+) Yeah! (+)

I have seriously beat Zero Mission at least 8 times in 4 days. The game is SOLID and I'm now heavily leaning into the camp of ZM > Super.

Here's a little tease for anyone who saw Part 1:
https://twitter.com/TarvouldsQuest/status/1435965526598094850

And for those that didn't, check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNXU64vy5sE


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D

The Zero Suit section sucks

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D

Super Metroid

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MZero posted...

D

The Zero Suit section sucks

wtf that's like my favorite part. I loved that whole section start to finish. What didn't you like about it?

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C

Give me zero mission anyday.
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Zero Mission's always been my favorite 2D Metroid. I've tried a few times but could never get into Super Metroid, too many little annoyances put me off

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D. Prime and Super outclass it (and oof, I feel my age that the whole Prime trilogy counts as retro. Made by Retro.)

Fusion was also pretty solid, and just lost out because of its strict linearity.

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D

Super and Fusion

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I feel like ZM it's slightly too easy to wall jump and bomb jump to the point where I don't feel accomplished when I do them

But I could see that being a positive for a lot of people

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zero mission is the second best Metroid of all time

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Lopen posted...

I feel like ZM it's slightly too easy to wall jump and bomb jump to the point where I don't feel accomplished when I do them

But I could see that being a positive for a lot of people

You would rather the controls be...harder?

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D because my main interest is in the completely player guided freedom of exploration. The gba games mostly throw this out.

Really solid mechanics though, I can replaying it over and over for the bosses and stuff. I did like the zero suit stuff on replay more than I remembered.

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D, I think my fav's still super, buuuuut Zero Mission's really great and I hope Dread looks back on it to bring back some things.

I don't think the "guiding" in mzm is an issue at all, it's undeniably helpful for newer players or those who just need that sort of navpoint. But for those who don't... it's very much ignorable, you can continue to just explore every nook as you please and be rewarded. Zero Mission is even a game that intentionally places optional paths if you seek them out, as it's intentionally designed to be completed at low% and speedrun 100% paces, in addition to the standard and they all really have different routes to support what you're trying to accomplish. Significantly more freeing than the literal gated closed Fusion & Other M.

That being said yeah Super definitely has a lot more figuring out where/how you're supposed to proceed - and I don't even think that's because of the chozo statues.

plz for the love of god tho stop making Power Bombs an endgame item

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GuessMyUserName posted...

But for those who don't... it's very much ignorable, you can continue to just explore every nook as you please and be rewarded.

It's really not.

If you know what's the main path and whats not it makes exploration MUCH less rewarding. I don't want to know all I'm doing is finding a short path with a missile expansion or energy tank.

When I played Hollow Knight I was constantly surprised by the structure of the game because I never knew if I was gonna discover a small secret or a brand new location. I don't want to be guided around the map like I'm on tour with designated exploration zones.

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I guess for a first playthrough I can understand that... I haven't had a first playthrough of Zero Mission in a long long time so *shrug*

But then again my first playthrough I accidentally did some big skips and fell off the path of chozo guidance so yeah I really won't be able to relate.

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wg64Z posted...

You would rather the controls be...harder?

For stuff like that yeah, assuming they're not super difficult. If I can just effortlessly take every shortcut it's less satisfying to execute for me.

Like I will clarify at no point do I feel like I'm "fighting the controls" in Super Metroid. I think Super Metroid controls well, and ZM controls "too well"

For another example take parrying in SF3. If the window was wider to successfully do it Evo moment #57 or whatever wouldn't be nearly as hype. That's the same kind of thing.

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I could write an essay on this, but instead I'll just say that I put my 8 year old in front of super metroid recently and he got to spore spawn, got frustrated with the controls and bailed on the game. I put him in front of zero mission and he loved it the whole way through.

super metroid does have a wider range of options than zero mission thanks to the wonkiness of its controls and physics, but zero mission is the goat just because it controls better than anything else in existence. (except for AM2R, which is like zero mission+)

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KommunistKoala posted...

D

Super and Fusion

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I think there are only 2 or 3 Chozo Statues that actively block you from moving without giving you a waypoint, and one of those is the VERY first one, which you get the long beam 20 seconds later and it barely affects anything. I'll agree though, they didn't feel very necessary to me. The rest are totally optional.

Vertical/Diagonal Bomb jumping is still insanely hard to pull off and rewarding to do. Those are my favorite tricks to pull off. I'm excited for you guys to see the video since a lot of the points you're making I address or even down right agree with.

GBA games "freedom" is way too much of a blanket statement. Zero Mission has a ton of freedom, where as Fusion is insanely strict in it's pathing. I frequently beat Ridley first in Zero Mission since I get the Varia suit immediately after getting the bombs, at least in a sub 15% run.


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I know ZM has a lot more going for it than Fusion, but they don't feel as naturally imbedded in the game. And I am emphasizing a first time play through. But I don't really like "skips" as opposed to general nonlinearity. It feels like it misses the point.

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C

Update: Recording footage for Echoes is painful. This game is a SLOG.

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D

it's still super metroid; I don't care if that's the hipster/snob answer, it's just true

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I hope mp4 addresses the movement of 3d metroid

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pjbasis posted...

I hope mp4 addresses the movement of 3d metroid

I hope (But realistically know, it will never happen) that the Scan visor is removed entirely.

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I feel like people should just hope the game exists at this point...!

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Echoes is sick dude.

https://twitter.com/TarvouldsQuest/status/1439610908746125322

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Leonhart4 posted...

I feel like people should just hope the game exists at this point...!

You know me, existence is not enough

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annihilator beam in multiplayer was absolute carnage

PEWPEWPEWPEWPEW

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C, ever since I first played it. The speed is perfect and it let's you do all the tricks and skips without forcing anything on you. SM just feels slow and clunky in comparison.

I do think Sam's level design is nicer on the first playthrough. ZM gets way better when you know some key shortcuts and where it's worth to skip things. Especially the zero suit portion.

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Lopen posted...

Like I will clarify at no point do I feel like I'm "fighting the controls" in Super Metroid

You never used the run or select buttons?

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I get we're just comparing within the series, but controls for old snes platformers are still far simpler than the average third person adventure game today. If you can play a game that uses 12 buttons that do different things in different contexts I can't imagine SM would be a fight.

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Super Metroids controls are worse than the GBA games and AM2R I think solely based on the weapon selecting and cancel buttons. Also having diagonal aim charted to two different buttons is rough.

Still S tier game though.

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D, I actually prefer the original because it doesnt have the Zero Suit section.

wg64Z posted...

wtf that's like my favorite part. I loved that whole section start to finish. What didn't you like about it?

Everything! Forced epilogues are usually awful, but this might be the worst Ive played. It was completely unnecessary and didnt even feel like a Metroid IMO.


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I feel so...defeated.

https://twitter.com/TarvouldsQuest/status/1441237579937067010

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Not sure I understand, was it a missable? Been a while since I played MP2

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Permanently missable. And after checking my footage, I actually DID scan it, but then I died and forgot to RE-scan it. Absolutely gutted.

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