Current Events > TIL: The Pathologic devs accidentally destroyed the Darksouls Gatekeepers.

(+) Yeah! (+)

teep_ posted...

The "artistic vision" never made sense to me since we live in a world where mods exist

The devs dont make the mods though. From pretty much said the difficulty is what it is and thats what they intended.

Its not like the community would freak out if someone made an easy mode mod.

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HaVeNII7 posted...

Souls does have an easy mode, built into the game itself. Through various mechanics, summoning, hints from other playersthe list goes on.

This will never not be a stupid thing to say.

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RedJackson posted...

Well, yeah Pathological has its own design philosophy and I guess it includes accessibility to the player

LOL it really doesn't.

Go play Pathologic 2. It's really good

It's also way harder than Dark Souls and part of the point of the game is to be oppressive and dying constantly. You're supposed to be on the brink of death all the time, struggling to balance doing what you think is right (which is not obvious) while learning about the story and staying alive in a confusing world of deception and surrealism.

It is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more effected as an experience by a difficulty mode than Dark Souls would ever be,

But if a guy choses to use the option anyway. So what? It's an option. They got an unintended experience and had fun. Everyone else got an intended experience and had fun,

Other than arrogance and toxic gatekeeping, what reason is there to ever be opposed to that?
Do you have any idea how many people cheat in Dark souls?

There are multiple trainers and cheat mods that have 6 figure downloads.

These did not effect you one bit. You "Intended Experience" was still there. Other people just had fun too


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I4NRulez posted...

Its not like the community would freak out if someone made an easy mode mod.

You're 3 feet away from a massive realization here but are just too blind to see it.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

You're 3 feet away from a massive realization here but are just too blind to see it.

Nonplayers wanting From themselves to change the game to cater to people who wouldn't even play it regardless is different from someone modding the game to cater to their individual needs that wouldn't change the core aspects of the game.

but you seem to be unable to understand that as its been explained to you 100 times before in these stupid arguments you keep making


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Well since it's been explained 100 times you must have no problem whatsoever explaining it or responding to the now about 78 points I have raised.

Oh wait no, you ignored them all, insulted me over and over, made up some dogshit about me talking about Dark Souls all the time and only wanting it because I find the game hard when I don't.

You're so full of shit. Your entire role in this "Discussion" has just been evade evade evade insult , fallacy, run away.

You haven't responded to or refuted anything I said. You haven't even watched the video. You just lied and acted toxic. Ironically instantly proving me and the Pathologic devs 100% right

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UnfairRepresent posted...

You're so full of s***. Your entire role in this "Discussion" has just been evade evade evade insult , fallacy, run away.

You haven't responded to or refuted anything I said. You haven't even watched the video. You just lied and acted toxic. Ironically instantly proving me and the Pathologic devs 100% right

lol, you do this shit all the time. Sorry someone is calling you out on it.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

But if a guy choses to use the option anyway. So what? It's an option. They got an unintended experience and had fun. Everyone else got an intended experience and had fun,

Reminds me of Metallicas And Justice For All and how they omitted the bass from the mix citing artistic vision. They never added it in citing that itd change their vision at the time.. but you hear the songs and it does sound dry

I enjoy hearing mixes where they add the bass in from others, but its not of the time period anymore because sonically it makes you feel something different. Going back to the original release produces an entirely different reaction nowadays after getting used to it.

I include peoples reactions a product of the product directly tied to artistic vision.. the games lore or reputation for being hard would no longer exist to a certain degree (how big or minute - hard to say) and really that was the effort of being stubborn in saying lets make this hard

Im not opposed to an easier difficulty tbh, I just dig how they really just want to troll gamers with not including something succinct lol

Ill probably check it out Pathological though, I saw a review on YT and it looked great hehe


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DarthAragorn posted...

Nah

Second post destroys TC's anus with facts and logic, mods time to close topic.

Unironically.

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Sounds good to me

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teep_ posted...

The "artistic vision" never made sense to me since we live in a world where mods exist

You can ruin it if you want, but the onus shouldn't be on devs.

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I dont get why random people on the internet feel entitled to choose how much damage a dev team lets their mobs deal to the player.

If it is the desire of devs to create something viewed as challenging, I don't see why thats a problem!

I don't think it's their fault if there are some "git gud" assholes among their fans, especially considering how toxic gamers are as a baseline.

And here's the thing: I don't believe the argument that the Dark Souls Fandom is a gatekeeping one. If that's true, why do Souls games have some of the best wikis out of all of gaming, with the wiki pages having step by step written guides and video walk-throughs on every page for any item or strategy?

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RedJackson posted...

Reminds me of Metallicas And Justice For All and how they omitted the bass from the mix citing artistic vision. They never added it in citing that itd change their vision at the time.. but you hear the songs and it does sound dry

I enjoy hearing mixes where they add the bass in from others, but its not of the time period anymore because sonically it makes you feel something different. Going back to the original release produces an entirely different reaction nowadays after getting used to it.

I include peoples reactions a product of the product directly tied to artistic vision.. the games lore or reputation for being hard would no longer exist to a certain degree (how big or minute - hard to say) and really that was the effort of being stubborn in saying lets make this hard

Im not opposed to an easier difficulty tbh, I just dig how they really just want to troll gamers with not including something succinct lol

Ill probably check it out Pathological though, I saw a review on YT and it looked great hehe

Pathologic is a really hard game to reccomend.

If you get it, get the HD version as the original English translation is worse than an I4NRulez post. The HD dub made it so much more playable. Some parts of the OG dub where so bad they literally removed dialogue from the game as it was pure nonsense due to such a hyperliteral direct translation of flowery Russian grandoise dialogue.

But anyway, it's not really a "fun" game. It's a survival horror surrealism game with tons and tons of walking. Which is intentional. The whole point is to keep you on the edge of survival and struggling to stay alive in a bleak confusing nightmare as unravel a complex story that's half metaphor and may not even be real but does it even matter if it is?

Gameplay is janky, combat is awkward (by design) it's a mess

You see why it's hard to reccomend. It's like the absolute best worst game ever.

PAthologic 2 is way better. It's as much a remake as a sequel. And improved.

But you're supposed to die, a lot, that's part of the intended experience. Diffiulty modes utterly transform that experience... Far far far more than using a Dark Souls Mod to give you super stats.

And that's the entire point. Who cares? It's a option. The intended experience is still there.

It would be like if both versions of MEtallica's music were able to be heard. What possible downside is there to that?

There isn't one. Only net gain

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Doe posted...

don't believe the argument that the Dark Souls Fandom is a gatekeeping one.

It's not! It doesn't make any sense. They're not the ones developing the game. It's people who don't want to git gudspecifically going to a community that values getting good, and complaining that everything should change.

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Doe posted...

And here's the thing: I don't believe the argument that the Dark Souls Fandom is a gatekeeping one. If that's true, why do Souls games have some of the best wikis out of all of gaming, with the wiki pages having step by step written guides and video walk-throughs on every page for any item or strategy?

There's a whole community of people that promote summoning them for help. There are covenants in the game to let players help each other. Go to any of the souls Reddits and a lot of the posts are like "I finally beat the first boss" and the replies are usually encouraging.

Its not as toxic as TC makes it seem and it gets tiring hearing about how they should change the game to cater to people who wouldnt even play it otherwise.

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Doe posted...

I dont get why random people on the internet feel entitled to choose how much damage a dev team lets their mobs deal to the player.

You got that backwards.

it;s the people saying "You cant insert an option that will bring joy to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other people in a way that doesn't effect me at all because if you do then I will be furious because Iw ant to look down on them!" that are entilted.

The Pathologic Devs demonstrated that perfectly in the video you refuse to watch

If I demand the devs remove the volume control from your favorite franchise in the next installment and you say "But hey, that's too loud/quiet. Why can't I have volume control?" whose entitled, me for making the game objectively worse for no reason or you for asking wtf the benefit is?

If it is the desire of devs to create something viewed as challenging, I don't see why thats a problem!

It's not

And it's also not a problem to put options in to bring joy to other people.

Like the Pathologic guys did.

I don't think it's their fault if there are some "git gud" assholes among their fans, especially considering how toxic gamers are as a baseline.

Not their fault they exist but it is their fault they cater to them.

If Demons Souls remastered had difficulty settings you know full well the toxic fanbase would have gone fucking nuts

There's nothing wrong with me pointing that out or pointing at the Pathologic devs and just pointing out how foolish this toxicity and pointless objectively negative decision making/gatekeeping is

And here's the thing: I don't believe the argument that the Dark Souls Fandom is a gatekeeping one. If that's true, why do Souls games have some of the best wikis out of all of gaming, with the wiki pages having step by step written guides and video walk-throughs on every page for any item or strategy?

Because they weren't made by the gatekeepers.

People like me made those Wikis and mods and youtube videos.

People like I4NRulez did not.

Have you seen what happens when instead of looking at a Wiki or watching a youtube video, someone asks a question about Dark Souls, namely a part they are stuck on to a group of Dark Souls fans? Or stats their build/stats? They get insulted and torn apart with 0 aid.

No one is saying literally the entire fanbase is toxic. That would be madness. But the core fans, the entiled ones, the loud ones, the ones the devs making the games cater too, are toxic as fuck and the devs know it. This topic alone demonstrates it perfectly. Just look at what the DArk Souls fans are openly saying and moreover what they are plum ignoring and lying about

So the devs make objectively bad choices to cater to them for absolutely no benefit.

And that's a shame. There is no negative whatsoever to player option

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I4NRulez posted...

Its not as toxic as TC makes it seem and it gets tiring hearing about how they should change the game to cater to people who wouldnt even play it otherwise.

Well I'm so sorry to have tired you out.

Maybe if you stopped running away when someone brings it up, you wouldn't be so exhausted.

I mean you claim this has been explained 100s of times yet you've posted about 30 times and haven't raised one point or retort onto how.


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Unfair do you really believe the vocal minority online that makes fun of people who complain nonstop control miyazaki and miyazaki himself isn't against an easy mode for his own reasons?

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CasualGuy posted...

Unfair do you really believes the vocal minority online that makes fun of people who complain nonstop control miyazaki and miyazaki himself isn't against an easy mode for his own reasons?

Miyazaki didn't put an easy mode into Demon's Souls because he knew the sheer idea that his game could compete against Oblivion (which is what he was told to do) was a complete farce.

So instead of appealing to a mass audience, appeal to a toxic niche who feel superior to the mass audience and purposeful harsh game design, half health on dying, tough enemies, only a minor story to keep out "Casual Scrubs" as a core part of the game.

You keep saying "WEll Miyazai wanted it!" without acknowledging that the toxicity from the fanbase was the reason he wanted it.

Hell he didn't even make Dark Souls 2 and you still bring him up.

It was never used as good game design. It was always needless objectively bad game design to have not have player options. He just suspected (probably correctly) that they needed the toxic fanbase to hold a candle to the other RPGs that were mechanically much better games.

And there's nothing wrong with me pointing this out. IT's not the crutch you think it is. Pathologic proved that. As do the numerous mods and trainers that don't effect your intended experience.

Your intended experience is still there with player option. the only thing removing player option does is hurt people, not one single positive.

If he believed difficulty modes would have made Demons Souls sell as well was Oblivion did, he would have put them in before you could spell your name. It was always always always a marketing strategy

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UnfairRepresent posted...

You keep saying "WEll Miyazai wanted it!" without acknowledging that the toxicity from the fanbase was the reason he wanted it

[Citation needed]

You going to argue your way into his thoughts to prove this to us lol?

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Just practice the game?

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I just find it funny how everyone pretends to actually care about what the devs want. If the devs said they wanted to include an easy mode, the players using that excuse would turn on them in an instant. Everybody knows people only care about the dev's opinion when it lines up with their own beliefs.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Have you seen what happens when instead of looking at a Wiki or watching a youtube video, someone asks a question about Dark Souls, namely a part they are stuck on to a group of Dark Souls fans? Or stats their build/stats? They get insulted and torn apart with 0 aid.

Fucking where

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KeeperOfShadows posted...

I just find it funny how everyone pretends to actually care about what the devs want. If the devs said they wanted to include an easy mode, the players using that excuse would turn on them in an instant. Everybody knows people only care about the dev's opinion when it lines up with their own beliefs.

It's true.

If they put difficulty options in Demon's Souls remastered, all the same people literally using "God works i mysterious ways" for Miyazai would instantly turn on him and freak out.

The fanbase wants to gatekeep and lookdown on others. That was by design

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UnfairRepresent posted...

it;s the people saying "You cant insert an option that will bring joy to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other people in a way that doesn't effect me at all because if you do then I will be furious because Iw ant to look down on them!" that are entilted.

In that case, are you saying that the Dark Souls Fandom is somehow holding From Soft hostage and demanding they don't add a difficulty option? Because that just isn't true. Evidently the community of Pathologic wasn't able to do that, either.

The community actively complains about Scholar of the First Sin being the new standard edition of DaSII because it is viewed as unfairly challenging with some of its enemy placement.

UnfairRepresent posted...

If I demand the devs remove the volume control from your favorite franchise in the next installment and you say "But hey, that's too loud/quiet. Why can't I have volume control?" whose entitled, me for making the game objectively worse for no reason or you for asking wtf the benefit is?

This argument doesn't work because sound control and things like gamma settings exist to let the player make the game easier to hear and see in the environment they play in. In contrast, "difficulty" is something painstakingly designed and crafted and tested by the developers. Fiddling with it can invalidate careful, precise design decisions.

This is an action game where every number and value and movement means something, it's not Skyrim where you just walk into a crowd of dudes swinging and you either are strong enough to melt them or you're not. Dark Souls considers how much stamina you have at any time, the combined weight of your gear and how it affects your maneuverability. Healing is designed to take time, slow stamina regen, and leave you vulnerable, encouraging strategic management of your time and placement.

How will you address this in difficulty options? It could be very easy to just break the game by adjusting some of this stuff. Like if heal was instant, you could just melt a boss with a fast hitting weapon and tank their blows. The work devs would have to do to create a playable experience wouldn't be additive. It would be multiplicative, or maybe even exponential.

And all of that ignores the online element of Dark Souls, and how the game incentivizes players to help others who ask for the help. You can get a buddy to fight through both the main areas and the boss arenas. How does that change when struggling players can instead flip the easy switch?

UnfairRepresent posted...

If it is the desire of devs to create something viewed as challenging, I don't see why thats a problem!

It's not

Great, then why are we having this discussion?

UnfairRepresent posted...

Not their fault they exist but it is their fault they cater to them.

If Demons Souls remastered had difficulty settings you know full well the toxic fanbase would have gone fucking nuts

Just because some toxic people like how you did something doesn't mean you're catering to them if you do it again. Demon's Souls could've had 1,000 difficulty settings and an LGBTQ mode that painted every boss with trans pride colors and it still would've sold a billion copies. It has been proven time and time again that le angry gamers are utterly incapable of "voting with their wallet" and thus this idea that Fromsoft is cowering to them is mythical. Fromsoft doesn't include difficulty options because they feel that their games are the best they can be with one difficulty shared between players. That lets them optimize their approach to how they design the game and creates a shared experience for the player base. Thats what Fromsoft wants. Frankly, you are libeling them by continually insisting that they make the choices they do for the sake of appealing to toxic people.


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UnfairRepresent posted...

Well I'm so sorry to have tired you out.

Maybe if you stopped running away when someone brings it up, you wouldn't be so exhausted.

I mean you claim this has been explained 100s of times yet you've posted about 30 times and haven't raised one point or retort onto how.

ive gone over it with you in many topics and you essentially put your fingers in your ear and go "NO NO NO DARK SOULS TOXIC ME WANT EASY MODE"

You never give solutions on how they should implement or how they would change certain parts and practices of the game.

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Guide posted...

Fucking where

Lol this topic alone.

I said "Look at this video about the PAthologic devs"

And the responses I got were "STop sucking! GIT GUD! PRAICT MOAR! GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME!" and other nonsense. Including weird lies about me talking about Dark Souls "All the time"

And we had about 50 of these before even one on topic post that responded to anything raised.

Now imagine If these same people were asked for advice on the Shrine of Amana.

https://youtu.be/Y9nDagqKL7Q

Hell the sheer fact you have the gall to pretend you haven't seen this just proves the toxicity. Dark Soul's is legendary for it.

So much so people think Dark Souls fans invented "Get Good" solely because the fanbase said it so much

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I4NRulez posted...

ive gone over it with you in many topics

https://youtu.be/TkPbJIlEXow?t=23

{Proof is i the pudding. You've spent like 50 posts insulting, invading and running from every point raised while saying nothing.

If you had a retort you would have expressed it. You have nothing

essentially put your fingers in your ear and go "NO NO NO DARK SOULS TOXIC ME WANT EASY MODE"

I don't want to play on easy and would not do so. I just support player options as an unambigiously good thing.

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In real life, when someone faces a challenge, do we tell them to try harder or do we make it easier?

Whatever the answer is, if art imitates life, then we know whether Dark Souls should have an easy mode.

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CasualGuy posted...

[Citation needed]

You going to argue your way into his thoughts to prove this to us lol?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point.

It's "Case in point", case and point is a misspelling. If you're gonna try to be smug then at least use the correct idiom.

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And if life imitates art... Then Dark Souls Easy Mode is a huge social issue

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

In real life, when someone faces a challenge, do we tell them to try harder or do we make it easier?

Yeah why the fuck do we give people hearing aids and wheelchairs. Fuck those people.

What the hell are you on about?

And how is a video game even related to real life? The entire point is that it is a GAME.... on VIDEO.

Hell Pathologic is far far closer to real life than Dark Souls and they've shown how adding an option changes literally nothing

Whatever the answer is, if art imitates life, then we know whether Dark Souls should have an easy mode.

Indeed. And it shows that player options are nothing but objectively good things that there is no opposition towards other than toxic gatekeeping

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Lol this topic alone.

You're not asking for any help or advice in this topic, so that's a fat lie.

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Lol there is no discussion here. The Pathologic devs chose to add in an easy mode. Fromsoft doesnt, end of story. You want it, but they dont, this aint McDonalds you dont get to have it your way. Maybe one day theyll add in difficulty options, but for now just get over it, there is no gate keeping, anyone can play and experience the games.

UnfairRepresent posted...

https://youtu.be/TkPbJIlEXow?t=23

{Proof is i the pudding. You've spent like 50 posts insulting, invading and running from every point raised while saying nothing.

If you had a retort you would have expressed it. You have nothing

I don't want to play on easy and would not do so. I just support player options as an unambigiously good thing.

lol i know from experience in these topics that you dont actually argue. I also know that any topic about fallout will have you come in and share your shit opinions on that too.

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Seaman_Prime posted...

Lol there is no discussion here. The Pathologic devs chose to add in an easy mode. Fromsoft doesnt, end of story.

Case and point

This is all Dark Souls fans can do

Evade , insult and run away

Why is there "no discussion " beyond you just being wrong?

Theres no reason to be opposed to player option. It's objectively a good thing

Pathologic 2 was not effected in anyway by some people messing with sliders

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Lmao bad kids being bad

Damn, UR dodging my salient points

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point

This is all Dark Souls fans can do

Evade , insult and run away

Why is there "no discussion " beyond you just being wrong?

Theres no reason to be opposed to player option. It's objectively a good thing

Pathologic 2 was not effected in anyway by some people messing with sliders

Calm down and learn to take no as an answer. Why not take a moment and consider the devs mindset/choice on this? Its not a matter of wrong or right, there is no objective way to make art. Just get over it.

Doe posted...

Damn, UR dodging my salient points

You love to see it

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TerrifyingRei posted...

in dark souls 3, i get invaded by twinks in ringed city gear on the constant in High Wall.

If you keep getting invaded why do you re-ember?

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Cemith posted...

If you keep getting invaded why do you re-ember?

because i enjoy the pvp and i win more often than not?

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teep_ posted...

The "artistic vision" never made sense to me since we live in a world where mods exist

You could use this the reverse way. Why do people need to demand an easy version if mods exist to give them that? Because not everyone uses or jave mods available. Which means there are still people who might come around to understanding their vision instead of playing a different version. If an artist wants to risk sales for that, it should be up to them. I'm just not a fan of the entitled "Everything should be made with me in mind" mindstate. We have access to more diverse optiond than ever before, yet people still need to feel like everyone is catering to them specifically or they feel wronged.

But at the end if the day, I don't care if they end up deciding to add it. My only fight is that it should be completely up to the creators. Noone is entitled to someone elses creation.

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TerrifyingRei posted...

because i enjoy the pvp and i win more often than not?

Okay, the way the post was made sounded to me like you were playing a new character solo and didn't understand why you kept getting invaded. I didn't know PVP was actually something you were into.

Carry on.


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Cemith posted...

Okay, the way the post was made sounded to me like you were playing a new character solo and didn't understand why you kept getting invaded. I didn't know PVP was actually something you were into.

Carry on.

yeah, i do enjoy pvping. which is why my friend liked summoning me. I would fight for them.

gimme a claymore and a silver kite shield.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Someguy somewhere in Berlin plays Dark Souls 2 tomorrow.

Some guy in Paris plays it at the same time.

Guy in Berlin plays on easy

Guy in Paris turns the volume down

How does either of these 2 people you know nothing about effect you whatsoever?

Answer: They don't.

Both of them went against what the devs envisioned, but who the fuck cares? They both had fun.

In the settings menu the developers already implemented sliders so you can adjust the volume of a few things to whatever the player wants. While not the optimal way to play, the devs did intend for the player to be able to customize the audio. Even if those settings were not in the game, computers and TVs give the player the option to adjust audio. These are all things that already exist. From Software would have to do additional work to add in an easy mode, which is time and money they could have spent elsewhere which ultimately can affect my enjoyment if that thing they didn't work on is something I would have preferred over an additional difficulty mode.

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TerrifyingRei posted...

yeah, i do enjoy pvping. which is why my friend liked summoning me. I would fight for them.

gimme a claymore and a silver kite shield.

I'm dogshit at PVP, but it's still fun. I saw a video the other day and someone ran a conjuring build with stuff like lightning bow and Lifehunt Scythe and I really want to try it.

Internet connection it too dookie though.

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Do the circle jerkers not realize they have yet to provide a solid reason against this?

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Doe posted...
In that case, are you saying that the Dark Souls Fandom is somehow holding From Soft hostage and demanding they don't add a difficulty option? Because that just isn't true. Evidently the community of Pathologic wasn't able to do that, either.

Hyperbolic nonsense to hide from the point.

No one is "holding From Soft hostage" but they are making objectively bad decisions solely to appease a toxic fanbase who oppose objectively good player option/freedom solely to shittalk others and be arrogant.

And it is absolutely fair and should be encouraged to call them and the fans out on it.

You're too scared to admit it but you know full well the lack of player options was only inserted to make niche toxic fans who shit talked Oblivion feel smug when they bought Demons Souls and that if Demon's Souls remastered came out with Dev blessed difficulty modes, these same people would flip.

Pathologic demonstrated how player choice effects nothing

This argument doesn't work because sound control and things like gamma settings exist to let the player make the game easier to hear and see in the environment they play in. In contrast, "difficulty" is something painstakingly designed and crafted and tested by the developers. Fiddling with it can invalidate careful, precise design decisions.

You switched horses. First it was "Whatever the Devs did is perfect and ironclad and can't be challenged." and now its "Well if I don't think it matters so it doesn't no matter what the devs intended!"

And it's flat out wrong anyway. The sheer idea that the devs didn't put painstaking amounts of time into the sound design and lighting is crazy. Especially in places in Blighttown.

You're basically going "It's wrong to want to player options but when I do it, it's cute! Not the same thing!" even though you're justifying going against the Dev's intended experience

This is an action game where every number and value and movement means something, it's not Skyrim where you just walk into a crowd of dudes swinging and you either are strong enough to melt them or you're not. Dark Souls considers how much stamina you have at any time, the combined weight of your gear and how it affects your maneuverability. Healing is designed to take time, slow stamina regen, and leave you vulnerable, encouraging strategic management of your time and placement.

So?

How will you address this in difficulty options? It could be very easy to just break the game by adjusting some of this stuff. Like if heal was instant, you could just melt a boss with a fast hitting weapon and tank their blows. The work devs would have to do to create a playable experience wouldn't be additive. It would be multiplicative, or maybe even exponential.

And yet fans did it with minimal effort over and over

I'm sure the volume options took work too.

And all of that ignores the online element of Dark Souls, and how the game incentivizes players to help others who ask for the help. You can get a buddy to fight through both the main areas and the boss arenas. How does that change when struggling players can instead flip the easy switch?

Okay and if Brian doesn't look up "Tongue But Hole" on the floor and wins the fight anyway, how has that effected you in anyway?

Especially if Brian is currently not playing the game at all?

You're making very weak excuses.

Just because some toxic people like how you did something doesn't mean you're catering to them if you do it again. Demon's Souls could've had 1,000 difficulty settings and an LGBTQ mode that painted every boss with trans pride colors and it still would've sold a billion copies. It has been proven time and time again that le angry gamers are utterly incapable of "voting with their wallet" and thus this idea that Fromsoft is cowering to them is mythical. Fromsoft doesn't include difficulty options because they feel that their games are the best they can be with one difficulty shared between players.

Not true. They openly made it hard and harsh to counter the popularity of Oblivion because they knew a generic RPG would fail by comparison. This isn't some secret, it was the entire marketing strategy. They never wanted good game design, they wanted to appeal to a niche toxic fanbase. And they did

This topic alone demonstrates that fanbase. The guys who seriously believe for reasons they can't explain that someone in Glasgow they never met or saw playing a game on easy ruins it for them because.....

Actually they can't explain that part.

They can't explain anything.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Calm down and learn to take no as an answer. Why not take a moment and consider the devs mindset/choice on this? Its not a matter of wrong or right, there is no objective way to make art. Just get over it.

Again this is such a bad point. Putting aside the fact I've addressed it about 19 times now and no one has responded to it.

Going "The Lord Works in mysterious ways" isn't a point or a discussion. It's a lazy evasion of bad game design and a really bad excuse to shut up legitimate criticism.

The gatekeeping of the Dark Souls fandom is toxic and pointless as hell. It was cultivated intentionally by the devs.

There is no objective benefit to be against player choice, you can't provide one. Just yell "The devs said so! So shut up!" despite the fact the devs are playing to that very mentality and there is zero benefit to it

Lost_All_Senses posted...

You could use this the reverse way. Why do people need to demand an easy version if mods exist to give them that? Because not everyone uses or jave mods available. Which means there are still people who might come around to understanding their vision instead of playing a different version. If an artist wants to risk sales for that, it should be up to them. I'm just not a fan of the entitled "Everything should be made with me in mind" mindstate. We have access to more diverse optiond than ever before, yet people still need to feel like everyone is catering to them specifically or they feel wronged.

Consoles don't have mods (usually) and mods aren't reliable. They can cause issues and clash with future patches.

Trainers and mods are great things but there is a huge difference between fan made mods and devs actually pulling their fingers out and making it easy and simple.

Again something the Pathologic devs addressed directly. They knew people used mods and cheats to "beat" the game. But the difficulty options turns looking up mods, downloading them from dodgy sites, hoping they don't clash with patches, having an installer and then going with whatever the fan who made it decided to do.

It's also a bullshit argument to go "Everyone wants things catered to them!" especially while you're arguing the game has to cater to you and not have player options.

Pathologic didn't have any of this in mind and still added player options and it hurt no one.

Subtitles, volume, brightness control etc. They're all objectively good things. Things you use.

There's no argument against this, just more excuses.


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