Current Events > TIL: The Pathologic devs accidentally destroyed the Darksouls Gatekeepers.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/q00T0xxj2o0?t=2417

They released a game.
It was really hard. It was intended to be hard. The Devs wanted it to be hard and the intended purpose of the game was that you died over and over. Part of the art/story and emotion was built on that rockbed.

People complained the game is too hard.
Devs added in optional difficulty settings and openly said "We don't like these and don't want you to use them since it's not the experience we intended but since you wanted them here they are as an option."

Then everyone got to enjoy the game and absolutely nobody suffered in any way whatsoever. The fanbase is fantastic and there is no toxicity at all of any note.

The devs even noted that a ton of people who played their games just used cheats and mods anyway so why not just make it easier for them if that's the experience they wanted even if the devs didn't.

Just immediately inadvertantly proves that the Dark Souls nonsense is purely because their fans are largely toxic and the devs know that, so they play to them. Not for any actual benefit beyond feeling superior to others.


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Nah

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*Devs caved into the demand of crybabies and altered their artistic vision*

"See! Why doesn't everyone do this?!"

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Captain_Qwark posted...

Still a bad idea for souls games that have invasions since it would ruin that part completely

if you play on "easy" mode or whatever, online play is restricted. Bam, solved\

EDIT: I say this as a souls fan who doesn't really want difficulty settings

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One thing that works for one game will not always work for another game. Should all Roguelikes be made into Roguelites for instance?

WizardPowers posted...

*Devs caved into the demand of crybabies and altered their artistic vision*

"See! Why doesn't everyone do this?!"

Case and point,

How did they alter their artistic vision? It's an option.

Does allowing the player to mute the PC during Blighttown alter artistic vision because Devs wanted you to hear the sound?

There is no logic. Only toxic arrogance. Everyone still got the Dev's intended experience who was going to get the Devs experience. A whole lot more people on top of that also had a great time having an unintended experience at the cost of nothing.

That's unquestionably a good thing.

I put subtitles on in every single game that has them. By your logic that meas Devs caved to me since nearly all games have that as an option turned off.

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Nemu posted...

One thing that works for one game will not always work for another game. Should all Roguelikes be made into Roguelites for instance?

I dunno but FTL is probably the best of the lot and has difficulty modes.

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Captain_Qwark posted...

Most of the invasions you get are new players though. So most of those would disappear and you'd get through the game with very little interaction.

Outside of the 1 or 2 dedicated fight club zones it's already hard to get invasions past the first couple of weeks

in dark souls 3, i get invaded by twinks in ringed city gear on the constant in High Wall.

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The devs said specifically they wanted it to be hard

Did the devs say specifically they wanted you not to have subtitles

God you're slow lmao

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WizardPowers posted...

The devs said specifically they wanted it to be hard

Did the devs say specifically they wanted you not to have subtitles

Maybe. The subs cover the artwork and often show you things that were meant to be hard to hear.

But look how quickly you've cowered from any actual point to "Well did the devs want it or not!" as opposed to how in any way that ultimately matters beyond pure arrogance from weirdo gatekeepers

God you're slow lmao

Case ad point. nothing but toxic arrogance


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Just dont play Dark Souls and shut up about it.

You whine about this so much I swear. Whenever a dark souls topic comes up you bring it up. We get it. You suck at souls and want it to be easier. The community doesn't want it and the devs don't want it. Get over it.

Just don't play the game. It's not that hard. Dark Souls isn't even that fucking hard.

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yea, I understand why dark souls doesn't have an easy mode, but I wish it did so I could experience it. I'm just really bad at action games. My timing is horrible. Zelda is about as difficult as I can manage. So even if I'd love the world and atmosphere of dark souls games, I don't think I could enjoy them.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Maybe. The subs cover the artwork and often show you things that were meant to be hard to hear.

But look how quickly you've cowered from any actual point to "Well did the devs want it or not!" as opposed to how in any way that ultimately matters beyond pure arrogance from weirdo gatekeepers

No, not maybe. Yes or no. Did they specifically say that?

And what the devs want does matter because what the devs want is their artistic vision.

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Ardbert posted...

yea, I understand why dark souls doesn't have an easy mode, but I wish it did so I could experience it. I'm just really bad at action games. My timing is horrible. Zelda is about as difficult as I can manage. So even if I'd love the world and atmosphere of dark souls games, I don't think I could enjoy them.

Just summon people. I was so bad at souls in beginning. I summoned people a lot. Later in the game i understood it better and it became easier. Its honestly not that hard and theres so many ways to make it easier. Its not that intimidating of a game

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Should fighting games have 1 button press combos because they're hard and people who suck will enjoy them more?

Should online fps games have an aimbot mode because people suck at aiming and can't enjoy the experience dying over and over?

Real talk if someone can't kill Ancient Wyvern in DS3 without taking a single hit, then maybe vidya gaming ain't for them and they should stfu.

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I4NRulez posted...

Just summon people. I was so bad at souls in beginning. I summoned people a lot. Later in the game i understood it better and it became easier. Its honestly not that hard and theres so many ways to make it easier. Its not that intimidating of a game

How much harder would you say it is than say, BoTW? :v Because I beat BoTW.

I4NRulez posted...

Just dont play Dark Souls and shut up about it.

You whine about this so much I swear. Whenever a dark souls topic comes up you bring it up. We get it.

I hardly ever talk about Dark Souls. Largely because as this topic is demonstrating it's fanbase is immensely unpleasant and toxic so it's not really a game you can talk much about

You suck at souls and want it to be easier.

Not really? I'm pretty good at Dark Souls. Wouldn't use an easy mode and don't use mods.

I think one of the reasons I don't like it as much as some others is actually that I didn't die enough in it to get stockholm syndrome.

I'm pretty good at video games. I'm also aware that a lot of people aren't good at video games. And I have no problem with them having fun too. Doesn't effect me at all.

The community doesn't want it and the devs don't want it. Get over it

Case and point. This is what you consider discussion.

"ONo shut up! Go away!" like a child.

The devs "don't want it" because they know people like you enjoy talking down too and feeling superior to, people who don't buy Dark Souls. Not for any pragmatic reason or any benefit.

IT's objectively a bad thing and you're demonstating that gangbusters right here

Just don't play the game. It's not that hard. Dark Souls isn't even that fucking hard.

One of my favorite games of all time is Silent Hill 2. It's fucking great. Way better than Dark Souls.

It has 2 difficulty sliders: Combat and Puzzles. One of the diffiuculty settings is Begininer.

I'm told that Begininer difficulity has no random encounters at all. Only scripted ones and bosses. That sounds awful.

I say told, because I've never played on Beginner mode. Why would I? So I don't even know if that's true.

But Silent Hill 2 is still one of the best games ever made and if hundreds of thousands of people only experienced it because they played on Begininer mode, good for them? How does it effect me in anyway that they got joy into their lives?

A question you openly can't answer and so run away from while insulting people and lying

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Comfy_Pillow posted...

Should fighting games have 1 button combos because they're hard and people who suck will enjoy them more?

guilty gear already did that

Comfy_Pillow posted...

Should online fps games have an aimbot mode because people suck at aiming and can't enjoy the experience dying over and over?

console games already do that

People get so ass blasted over dark souls I don't get it

One dev of one AAA series doesn't want an easy mode and people lose their fucking minds over it. How entitled do you have to be???


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Imagine complaining that a game is too hard lmao.

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Its great that more people got to enjoy the game in this instance but I still think its all up to the devs. If there was some accessibility feature missing from a game I was interested in, Id either deal with it or not play it. I wouldnt condemn the developer because they didnt do what I wanted.

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OudeGeuze posted...

guilty gear already did that

console games already do that

Should all fighters do it?

Aim assist is not aimbot

CasualGuy posted...

People get so ass blasted over dark souls I don't get it

One dev of one AAA series doesn't want an easy mode and people lose their fucking minds over it. How entitled do you have to be???

You got that backwards.

it;s the people saying "You cant insert an option that will bring joy to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other people in a way that doesn't effect me at all because if you do then I will be furious because Iw ant to look down on them!" that are entilted.

The Pathologic Devs demonstrated that perfectly in the video you refuse to watch

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UnfairRepresent posted...

it;s the people saying "You cant insert an option that will bring joy to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other people in a way that doesn't effect me at all because if you do then I will be furious because Iw ant to look down on them!" that are entilted.

Why do you care what rando people say?

Miyazaki said it won't happen and he doesn't want to do it. Why are you still fixated on it years later?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point,

How did they alter their artistic vision? It's an option.

Does allowing the player to mute the PC during Blighttown alter artistic vision because Devs wanted you to hear the sound?

There is no logic. Only toxic arrogance. Everyone still got the Dev's intended experience who was going to get the Devs experience. A whole lot more people on top of that also had a great time having an unintended experience at the cost of nothing.

That's unquestionably a good thing.

I put subtitles on in every single game that has them. By your logic that meas Devs caved to me since nearly all games have that as an option turned off.

Its not, theres artistic merit in creating a game whose central focus IS the payoff in finally destroying your enemy. The game design, the art direction, the central narrative, etc. are all designed with the gameplay being harder than the standard RPG.

Not toxic at all by any means and IT IS breaking artistic vision to step away from that. Whether thats a good thing or not is something else entirely and up to you


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Souls does have an easy mode, built into the game itself. Through various mechanics, summoning, hints from other playersthe list goes on.

Im confident that anyone can pick up Dark Souls 1, pump intelligence, and get through with pretty bare bones resistance.

You can absolutely CHUNK a bosses health as a mage. And thats without summoning cooperators! Add in both of those, as well as grinding if needed, using a bit of critical thinking while observing hints left by other playersits REALLY not as hard as people make it out to be. Nowhere near it.

Now, something like Sekiro? Thats a different story. That game is pretty much entirely skill based. That I can see making the argument for an easier difficulty, as there really arent any in game methods to facilitate it other than simply getting better at the game. I dont think that anyone could beat Sekiro. I know that anyone could beat Dark Souls.

Souls though? As long as you use your head youll be just fine. Im confident anyone can beat them. Ive taken multiple people through them who thought it would be too hard, and every time I get the same reply at the end. That wasnt as hard as I expected it to be.

The means to make it easier are therethe player just has to choose to engage with them. If they dont, thats on them!

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Ardbert posted...

How much harder would you say it is than say, BoTW? :v Because I beat BoTW.

It's a different kind of hard. Approach the bosses as you would a Zelda puzzle and its similar.

Most rank and file enemies in dark souls games you can just stick a shield up or R1 mash em to hell. The bosses all have timing and different strats to take em out with. You'll die a bit but summoning helps because they always take aggro and in some cases can straight up beat the bosses for you. If you do non NPC summons they just roll up and wipe out bosses for you.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

I hardly ever talk about Dark Souls. Largely because as this topic is demonstrating it's fanbase is immensely unpleasant and toxic so it's not really a game you can talk much about

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your BS post because I love Dark Souls and I'm in almost every dark souls topic on here and in almost every one that's about an easy mode or devolves into that you're in there whining about it.

No contributions to the discussion of the actual game. Just whining.

Stop whining and don't play it. It's never going to cater to you

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CasualGuy posted...

Why do you care what rando people say?

Because I'm a good person?

Why don't you care what other people say?

Why do you oppose millions of people experiencing Joy in a way that has no negative effect whatsoever on anyone else?

Miyazaki said it won't happen and he doesn't want to do it. Why are you still fixated on it years later?

Marvelous how quickly the people who praise and promote toxicity and hate happiness and joy fall into the theistic claptrap of "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

And note how you had to ignore literally everything that I have said to bring that up.

And games Miyazaki had nothing to do with continued the trend. Dark Souls 2 was arguably harder than 1.

They did it not because it was objectively good to give player control, but because they knew how their fanbase thought and knew that they liked to look down on and arrogant gatekeep/shit-talk others.

To me that's like if Metal Gear Solid games had no sound options and disabled the brightness control on your screen when playing the game. And the response of the fans was "FUCK YOU U SUCK U SMELL IM GRAET LOL! KOJIMA SAID SO!" when you ask the simple question of "How does being able to lower the volume hurt anyone?"

And note again my questions never get answers, only evasions and toxic insults while usurping the same fallacies used by fundametalist religion envanglicals to change the subject and handwave obvious truths.

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All they really did is waste resources on an easy mode that could have been put toward something worthwhile.

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RedJackson posted...

Its not, theres artistic merit in creating a game whose central focus IS the payoff in finally destroying your enemy. The game design, the art direction, the central narrative, etc. are all designed with the gameplay being harder than the standard RPG.

Not toxic at all by any means and IT IS breaking artistic vision to step away from that. Whether thats a good thing or not is something else entirely and up to you

This is equally true if not more true of Pathologic.

And they instantly disproved everything you just said effortlessly. Their artistic vision wasn't broken because someone fiddled with difficulty sliders. No different to if you turned the volume up or down a little.

I4NRulez posted...

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your BS post because I love Dark Souls and I'm in almost every dark souls topic on here and in almost every one that's about an easy mode or devolves into that you're in there whining about it.

No contributions to the discussion of the actual game. Just whining.

Stop whining and don't play it. It's never going to cater to you

"I have no argument whatsoever so I'm just going to lie my ass off and not respond to any of the dozens of points raised."

Yup, as I said. Toxicity. Nothing but toxicity. This dude enjoys feeling superior to people. That's literally the only reason he is opposed to objectively good things.

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Just play another game dude

unnamedsoldier posted...

Just play another game dude

And note again my questions never get answers, only evasions and toxic insults while usurping the same fallacies

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Because I'm a good person?

Why don't you care what other people say

Maybe you are maybe you're not

Why cry over the opinion of a random person?

UnfairRepresent posted...

Marvelous how quickly the people who praise and promote toxicity and hate happiness and joy fall into the theistic claptrap of "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

And note how you had to ignore literally everything that I have said to bring that up.

And games Miyazaki had nothing to do with continued the trend. Dark Souls 2 was arguably harder than 1.

They did it not because it was objectively good to give player control, but because they knew how their fanbase thought and knew that they liked to look down on and arrogant gatekeep/shit-talk others.

To me that's like if Metal Gear Solid games had no sound options and disabled the brightness control on your screen when playing the game. And the response of the fans was "FUCK YOU U SUCK U SMELL IM GRAET LOL! KOJIMA SAID SO!" when you ask the simple question of "How does being able to lower the volume hurt anyone?"

And note again my questions never get answers, only evasions and toxic insults while usurping the same fallacies used by fundametalist religion envanglicals to change the subject and handwave obvious truths.

What a baffling response to what I said. That had nothing to do with what I asked you.

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CasualGuy posted...

Maybe you are maybe you're not

Why cry over the opinion of a random person?

Because bringing joy to millions at the cost of literally nothing is objectively a good thing?

What a baffling response to what I said

Not really. It was incredibly straight forward

As was your evasion of the many points I raised

Someguy somewhere in Berlin plays Dark Souls 2 tomorrow.

Some guy in Paris plays it at the same time.

Guy in Berlin plays on easy

Guy in Paris turns the volume down

How does either of these 2 people you know nothing about effect you whatsoever?

Answer: They don't.

Both of them went against what the devs envisioned, but who the fuck cares? They both had fun.

There's no counter argument to this. Only insults and evasions. Just pure toxcity. Pathologic Devs alone proved this. Dying over and over is WAAAAAAAAY more vital to progression and story and atmosphere in that than in Dark Souls. But they know some guy choosing to increase the effectiveness of clothes by 20% doesn't detract from everyone else playing the game, and that one guy is still having fun

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I4NRulez posted...

It's a different kind of hard. Approach the bosses as you would a Zelda puzzle and its similar.

Most rank and file enemies in dark souls games you can just stick a shield up or R1 mash em to hell. The bosses all have timing and different strats to take em out with. You'll die a bit but summoning helps because they always take aggro and in some cases can straight up beat the bosses for you. If you do non NPC summons they just roll up and wipe out bosses for you.

Maybe I'll give it a try. The way people talk about them makes it seem super intimidating. :v But I do love Zelda style games.

UnfairRepresent posted...

"I have no argument whatsoever so I'm just going to lie my ass off and not respond to any of the dozens of points raised."

Yup, as I said. Toxicity. Nothing but toxicity. This dude enjoys feeling superior to people. That's literally the only reason he is opposed to objectively good things.

lol, calling you out for being full of shit isn't trying to be superior to you. I mean i am because you keep up the facade of this argument.

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To 500!

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Have you tried maybe getting good?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

This is equally true if not more true of Pathologic.

And they instantly disproved everything you just said effortlessly. Their artistic vision wasn't broken because someone fiddled with difficulty sliders. No different to if you turned the volume up or down a little.

Well, yeah Pathological has its own design philosophy and I guess it includes accessibility to the player (this might be stretched to the options available
to the player even.. I havent played the game so idk).

If you really wanted to you could stick a turd on the wall and itd be your artistic vision if you so want it to be that and itd be of equal merit to the Sistine chapel. How effective it would be in portraying what youd like to portray, again, is something else entirely.

I wouldnt say a slider can break artistic vision youre right in that regard, but in the case of Dark Souls it literally is the antithesis of their OG design to include an easy difficulty. Things can change fer sure. I mean at this point Dark Souls has shown they can create a game that can stand on lore and visual design alone while being fun without the difficulty being crazy difficult

but I also I cant help but feel something like Bloodborne was born on being fixated on a hard difficulty game but with an emphasis on being aggressive. I dont think it would be possible to have a game focused on risk/reward and have it feel fresh if the previous games werent deliberately designed to be slow and calculative because of the harder difficulty


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Ardbert posted...

Maybe I'll give it a try. The way people talk about them makes it seem super intimidating. :v But I do love Zelda style games.

It really just doesnt hold your hand. There's no tutorials but only a few signs on the floor that tell you what to do. Its a huge difference from a lot of modern games that essentially guide you hand in hand on how to play.

Dark Souls is more of throwing shit to wall and seeing what sticks. Once you get through the first boss or two you'll get the hang of it and it'll be easier. You'll still have throw you controller at the wall moments but most players do. Hell, i beat DS3 a bunch and i picked it up the other day and still got pissed at nameless king.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Because bringing joy to millions at the cost of literally nothing is objectively a good thing?

Millions do enjoy dark souls. Very few are probably kept away because of a lack of an easy mode.

And there really is an easy mode already. By summoning you can beat every boss and area withiut doing anything yourself if you wanted to

Most of your points are just non sensical and that's why nobody bothers. Hard to argue with what you say.

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_MorningStar posted...

Have you tried maybe getting good?

I'm pretty good at Dark Souls. I've beaten all 3. Didn't play Sekiro.

I've been playing RPGs my whole life. I'm way above average from the common gamer just from experience alone. I don't use mods (for Dark Souls anyway) and I didn't die that much. I would not use an Easy mode.

This is not something that would benefit me whatsoever. It's something that would benefit a million other people.

But that destroys your narrative, so like I4NRulez, you have to lie to continue the toxicity rather than adress any point raised.

You can't feel superior unless you ignore literally everyone said and pretend it's someone complaining that they can't beat a boss.

When in reality it's just basic common sense and the only reason you oppose it is because it asks you to check your ego.

Again note how not a single person gatekeeping for Dark Souls can respond to a single point raised. Not one has even watched the video I linked.

It's all just evasions, lies, insults and fallacies.

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CasualGuy posted...

Millions do enjoy dark souls. Very few are probably kept away because of a lack of an easy mode.

And there really is an easy mode already. By summoning you can beat every boss and area withiut doing anything yourself if you wanted to

Most of your points are just non sensical and that's why nobody bothers. Hard to argue with what you say.

He doesnt argue in good faith anyways.

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difficulty settings piss me off when i don't know what difficulty is intended and i'm gonna question my choice throughout the whole playthrough. heck the western version of one of the megaman games straight up lies to the player: there's "normal" and "hard", except "hard" is the original difficulty that the devs intended. fuck that shit.

but a straight up "intended difficulty" option? yeah i can fap to that.

i also like when the difficulty setting is a mechanic in itself, like in kid icarus uprising where you pay currency to change the difficulty before each level and it affects the collectibles you can get.

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The "artistic vision" never made sense to me since we live in a world where mods exist
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