Poll of the Day > Fauci's emails really showed how hypocritical he was.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lock him up.

Pardoned.

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Based on your track record of misinterpreting empirical reality, I'm going to guess nothing about the way the world currently exists actually leads to this conclusion.

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adjl posted...

Based on your track record of misinterpreting empirical reality, I'm going to guess nothing about the way the world currently exists actually leads to this conclusion.

There was a recent big write up about it. Sorry that youre not up to date on the current literature.

MartianManchild posted...

There was a recent big write up about it. Sorry that youre not up to date on the current literature.

Fox News doesn't count.
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Lazy trolling, ya hate to see it

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MartianManchild posted...

There was a recent big write up about it. Sorry that youre not up to date on the current literature.

Guesses can be proven wrong, if they are wrong.

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MartianManchild posted...

There was a recent big write up about it. Sorry that youre not up to date on the current literature.

You wrote three words.

Veedrock- posted...

Pardoned.

you don't have the power to do that

i do

pardoned.

actually, i'm just gonna replace jailed!fauci with tc, since that's a more accurate assessment of where he's likely headed.

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Revelation34 posted...

Fox News doesn't count.

Actually it was originally from the Washington Post, but heres a USA Today article breaking it down for all those that are too lazy.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/06/03/dr-fauci-emails-private-comments-vs-public-statements/7510491002/?build=native-web_i_p
Things like mask usage, origins of the virus, and several others he was found to be hypocritical in private. Also just to quote the article

There were also instances when what Fauci wrote privately were in sync with his public comments and times when it wasnt.

what exactly was said in the emails that is supposedly so bad? I want direct quotes, op

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

what exactly was said in the emails that is supposedly so bad? I want direct quotes, op

What was so bad was don't read it for yourself, just trust me that Fauci is a really really really bad guy, okay? Trust me.

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

what exactly was said in the emails that is supposedly so bad? I want direct quotes, op

he stands up to wipe!

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MartianManchild posted...

Actually it was originally from the Washington Post, but heres a USA Today article breaking it down for all those that are too lazy.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/06/03/dr-fauci-emails-private-comments-vs-public-statements/7510491002/?build=native-web_i_p
Things like mask usage, origins of the virus, and several others he was found to be hypocritical in private. Also just to quote the article

So... he changed his mind on masks as emerging data showed that they were more beneficial than originally thought (which mirrors what most public health agencies did), and he didn't respond to speculation and rumours about Covid being created in a Chinese lab (which would have been rather irresponsible given that it would only fuel the rising problem of anti-Asian hate crimes). Ah yes. So hypocritical.

My initial assessment was correct.

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Revelation34 posted...

Fox News doesn't count.

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Mead posted...

Lazy trolling, ya hate to see it

Can't expect much from a shit gimmick

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MartianManchild posted...

Things like mask usage

I always love watching people bitching about how the guidance on mask usage changed because it's clear they haven't the slightest fucking clue how science - and epidemiology specifically - works.

The reason why medical personnel - Fauci included - originally said that masks were not needed by the general populace is that masks are, generally speaking, fucking useless against viruses. Viruses are tiny and most will slip right through the fibres of a cloth mask. It would be like trying to keep mosquitoes out of your yard by putting up a chain-link fence. As such, the initial thinking was that people panic-buying masks wasn't helping anything, since they would be ineffective against a coronavirus, and it was putting a run on medical supplies that were badly needed by hospital staff (who need to worry about a lot more than just one specific disease and also need sterile environments so as to not cause further infections in their patients).

But as we learned more about the this specific coronavirus, we discovered that it travelled via water droplets, which are hundreds of thousands of times larger than a virus. Masks can't stop an airborne virus, but they can absolutely stop one that's spread via water droplets like SARS-CoV-2 (keeping with the above example, imagine a specific type of deadly mosquito only travelled within inflated balloons - now that chain link fence is suddenly much more effective at keeping them out). So the guidance on mask usage changed.

That's not a sign of corruption or incompetence, it's a sign of scientists trying to fight an emerging and unknown disease and learning as they go.

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darkknight109 posted...

But as we learned more about the this specific coronavirus, we discovered that it travelled via water droplets

does this make sense? of course it travels via water droplets... who thinks that you spew dry virus particles from your mouth and nose? is that a thing?

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Sahuagin posted...

does this make sense? of course it travels via water droplets... who thinks that you spew dry virus particles from your mouth and nose? is that a thing?

And once the virus-laden water droplet lands on the mask, the virus can still travel through the mask, right into your mouth or nose.

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darkknight109 posted...

That's not a sign of corruption or incompetence, it's a sign of scientists trying to fight an emerging and unknown disease and learning as they go.

What about the double masking thing then? Didn't he say it was "common sense" if one mask helped two would help more? At the point they figured out masks help at all (which as pointed out above is rather silly that it took them so long to come to that conclusion) why didn't he push for double masks then?

Sahuagin posted...

does this make sense? of course it travels via water droplets... who thinks that you spew dry virus particles from your mouth and nose? is that a thing?

It's the difference between being airborne and being transmitted by aerosol. Some viruses (mostly naked ones, as opposed to enveloped ones) are reasonably stable in dry air, such that they don't rely on droplets to be transmitted. They're still emitted primarily in droplet form, since there's so much water vapour in our breath (and especially when sneezing/coughing), but airborne viruses can linger for a while after the droplets dry up, rather than relying entirely on them.

SunWuKung420 posted...

And once the virus-laden water droplet lands on the mask, the virus can still travel through the mask, right into your mouth or nose.

There were concerns early on that that was a risk, which was a major factor in not recommending masks immediately despite it seeming like common sense now that they work. Subsequent research, however, has found that wearing masks does in fact reduce transmission (primarily if the infectious person wears one, which makes sense because of how much they reduce the velocity of air coming out of their mouth/nose and therefore their aerosol dispersal radius, but it also helps to keep it away from healthy people), so the recommendations were updated accordingly.

Reigning_King posted...

What about the double masking thing then? Didn't he say it was "common sense" if one mask helped two would help more? At the point they figured out masks help at all (which as pointed out above is rather silly that it took them so long to come to that conclusion) why didn't he push for double masks then?

That, I couldn't tell you. It is quite common in science to take a while to arrive at conclusions that, in retrospect, seem like simple common sense, but that does seem particularly common. There may have been some questions about how much of the protective effect was because of filtration versus air speed reduction, particularly where virtually any face covering was found to be effective (albeit to varying degrees). If it's just about reducing the speed of air, doubling up wouldn't change all that much. If filtration does play a significant role, it would make a bigger difference.

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adjl posted...

It's the difference between being airborne and being transmitted by aerosol. Some viruses (mostly naked ones, as opposed to enveloped ones) are reasonably stable in dry air, such that they don't rely on droplets to be transmitted. They're still emitted primarily in droplet form, since there's so much water vapour in our breath (and especially when sneezing/coughing), but airborne viruses can linger for a while after the droplets dry up, rather than relying entirely on them.

k yeah that makes sense, thanks

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Fauci is a perfect example of a bureaucrat who has been in his position too long and needs to be removed. He's old as shit, senile and corrupt. He needs to be replaced by someone younger and smarter. He's contradicted himself multiple times and has done poorly when challenged on his guidance. Anyone who still defends his poor handling on this every step of the way will likely continue defending him no matter what he says

Sure, Fauci may have conspired with the CCP and the Democrat party to manufacture a virus, used it in biological warfare to murder millions of civilian lives around the globe, destroyed world economies (while enriching billionaire corporations that bribe the Democrats), used it as an excuse to shove the mass mail-in ballot idea down our throats in order to commit the most comprehensive voter fraud operation in the United States history, all to remove President Trump from office and put an end to his mean tweets...

All for the common good. <3


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SantaKhala posted...

Sure, Fauci may have conspired with the CCP and the Democrat party to manufacture a virus, used it in biological warfare to murder millions of civilian lives around the globe, destroyed world economies (while enriching billionaire corporations that bribe the Democrats), used it as an excuse to shove the mass mail-in ballot idea down our throats in order to commit the most comprehensive voter fraud operation in the United States history, all to remove President Trump from office and put an end to his mean tweets...

All for the common good. <3

The trump cult always missing the most crucial part of that whole plan you laid out. If all this were to be true... Trump funded the vaccines and financially incentivized the lockdowns that fucked the economy. And Trump left fauci in his role and many times cited him as a source for what he was doing and saying

darkknight109 posted...

I always love watching people bitching about how the guidance on mask usage changed because it's clear they haven't the slightest fucking clue how science - and epidemiology specifically - works.

The reason why medical personnel - Fauci included - originally said that masks were not needed by the general populace is that masks are, generally speaking, fucking useless against viruses. Viruses are tiny and most will slip right through the fibres of a cloth mask. It would be like trying to keep mosquitoes out of your yard by putting up a chain-link fence. As such, the initial thinking was that people panic-buying masks wasn't helping anything, since they would be ineffective against a coronavirus, and it was putting a run on medical supplies that were badly needed by hospital staff (who need to worry about a lot more than just one specific disease and also need sterile environments so as to not cause further infections in their patients).

But as we learned more about the this specific coronavirus, we discovered that it travelled via water droplets, which are hundreds of thousands of times larger than a virus. Masks can't stop an airborne virus, but they can absolutely stop one that's spread via water droplets like SARS-CoV-2 (keeping with the above example, imagine a specific type of deadly mosquito only travelled within inflated balloons - now that chain link fence is suddenly much more effective at keeping them out). So the guidance on mask usage changed.

That's not a sign of corruption or incompetence, it's a sign of scientists trying to fight an emerging and unknown disease and learning as they go.

All of this

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The only questionable things I'm aware Fauci did were

1 - Telling people masks were ineffective early on (later admitted it was a lie to prevent a mask shortage)
2 - Going on the news to damage control the US's decision to keep vaccines privatized (hugely hated move internationally). He bought into that lie 100%.

Otherwise he took a lot of heat trying to do the right thing while Trump was fighting him for most of the time.

darkknight109 posted...

The reason why medical personnel - Fauci included - originally said that masks were not needed by the general populace is that masks are, generally speaking, fucking useless against viruses.

He admitted it was because of the possibility of a shortage for medical staff though.

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Yellow posted...

Telling people masks were ineffective early on (later admitted it was a lie to prevent a mask shortage)

This is not at all what happened

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Yellow posted...

He admitted it was because of the possibility of a shortage for medical staff though.

Yes, which I specifically pointed out here:

"As such, the initial thinking was that people panic-buying masks wasn't helping anything, since they would be ineffective against a coronavirus, and it was putting a run on medical supplies that were badly needed by hospital staff (who need to worry about a lot more than just one specific disease and also need sterile environments so as to not cause further infections in their patients)."

It was the same as when morons were hoarding toilet paper even though coronavirus wasn't a GI disease and there was no issue with the toilet paper supply chain. Idiots basically created a shortage of a widely available product where none existed before and the risk for that to happen to medical PPE that was badly needed by healthcare staff had the potential to be catastrophic. If doctors didn't need the masks, it's doubtful Fauci or anyone else would have stepped in since, like with the TP crisis, it's annoying but not crippling.

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itt:

people saying it's understandable how it was handled because it was new.

same people also say the vaccine has been around for years
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

same people also say the vaccine has been around for years

???

darkknight109 posted...

It was the same as when morons were hoarding toilet paper even though coronavirus wasn't a GI disease

To be fair, catastrophic explosive diarrhea is one of the symptoms of particularly bad cases, so in some ways, it is a GI disease. That wasn't why people were hoarding toilet paper, though. That was just a matter of people freaking out about the possibility that toilet paper would be hard to get (entirely because people freaked out about that and hoarded it). Same reason we had that gas shortage a couple weeks ago, actually.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

same people also say the vaccine has been around for years

The vaccine *technology* has been around for years. Vaccines specific to Covid, not so much, for extremely obvious reasons (namely the linear passage of time).

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

same people also say the vaccine has been around for years

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

the vaccine has been around for years

no one says that

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It's truly bizarre to see people act as if emails which prove nothing are conclusive proof for a dozen different conspiracy theories.

It's like a reverse-Mueller report.

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Move over Hilary, we have a new person's emails to scapegoat now

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Mead posted...

This is not at all what happened

Yes, actually, that's what the CDC website said. They were ineffective for the general population. I saw it with my own eyes.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-mask-advice-was-because-doctors-shortages-from-the-start-2020-6

Blightzkrieg posted...

It's truly bizarre to see people act as if emails which prove nothing are conclusive proof for a dozen different conspiracy theories.

I didn't even read a single thing from or about the e-mails. I don't really care. People here aren't mature enough to have a real conversation.

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Science changes as new info is presented - this shocking story at 10!

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Jen0125 posted...

Science changes as new info is presented - this shocking story at 10!

No... he intentionally did it to keep masks for people who needed it. That is literally what he said he did.

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Yellow posted...

Yes, actually, that's what the CDC website said. They were ineffective for the general population. I saw it with my own eyes.

Yes - because they thought they were! Because, as I said above, masks are usually ineffective at stopping viruses. Which, y'know, is what coronavirus is. And people were panic-buying them which was causing a shortage for doctors who actually need them.

Believe me, I know. A couple of my clients are doctors completely unaffiliated with the CDC (not even in the same country) and they had that same guidance up on their websites with the same justification (doesn't work, causing shortage for people who actually need to use them). Only when the science behind coronavirus was better understood and it was determined that the virus needs water droplets for transmittal did medical scientists realize that masks actually were effective.

This really isn't the evil conspiracy you're insisting it is.

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Yellow posted...

No... he intentionally did it to keep masks for people who needed it. That is literally what he said he did.

youre framing it as something nefarious though when it clearly isnt

things would have been even more disastrous if more healthcare workers hadnt been able to get basic PPE

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OhhhJa posted...

Fauci is a perfect example of a bureaucrat who has been in his position too long and needs to be removed. He's old as shit, senile and corrupt. He needs to be replaced by someone younger and smarter. He's contradicted himself multiple times and has done poorly when challenged on his guidance. Anyone who still defends his poor handling on this every step of the way will likely continue defending him no matter what he says

easy on the koolaid there, bud

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helIy posted...

easy on the koolaid there, bud

If anything resembles drinking the koolaid, it's the idol worship of him that many on the left seem to exhibit. Dude is 80 and handled this whole thing quite poorly. Let's replace him with someone in like their 40s or 50s. We have too many dinosaurs in politics and the alphabet corporations that rule everyone

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OhhhJa posted...

If anything resembles drinking the koolaid, it's the idol worship of him that many on the left seem to exhibit. Dude is 80 and handled this whole thing quite poorly. Let's replace him with someone in like their 40s or 50s. We have too many dinosaurs in politics and the alphabet corporations that rule everyone

if it weren't for him, everyone would have mainlined clorox lmao

yeah he really handled it poorly lmfao

rather, the actual person who handled it poorly was the man constantly trying to undermine him

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OhhhJa posted...

it's the idol worship of him that many on the left seem to exhibit.

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Mead posted...

OhhhJa posted...

If anything resembles drinking the koolaid, it's the idol worship of him that many on the left seem to exhibit. Dude is 80 and handled this whole thing quite poorly. Let's replace him with someone in like their 40s or 50s. We have too many dinosaurs in politics and the alphabet corporations that rule everyone

You seem rather attached to this position. Out of respect, I'll ask you to elaborate on how, exactly, Fauci handled it so poorly. Given that you've been pushing some form of "we should just stop trying to do anything to stop Covid and hope we get herd immunity before too many people die" for most of the past year, I have some suspicions about where you're going to be taking this, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

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OhhhJa posted...

yikes

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Wonder why he isn't more concerned about the "idol worship" of the guy who actually botched the pandemic response

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