Poll of the Day > If you have an Amazon device, read this!

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-will-soon-automatically-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/

---

All it does is allow smart devices like sensors and smart lights to continue working when the owner's internet connection or wifi is down, and allow for better tracking of things like pet locators and Tile trackers. It's limited to 80 kbps, slightly faster than dialup, and is capped at 500 MB per month. The data is sent using an encrypted tunnel so there is no access to your local network, and the local network cannot access the data sent through the Sidewalk.

---

Thanks, Cap!

---

It's so nice of big tech companies to be looking out for us like that, you know? Feels good, man.

---

I'm sure there is no way this can be exploited.

---

captpackrat posted...

All it does is allow smart devices like sensors and smart lights to continue working when the owner's internet connection or wifi is down, and allow for better tracking of things like pet locators and Tile trackers. It's limited to 80 kbps, slightly faster than dialup, and is capped at 500 MB per month. The data is sent using an encrypted tunnel so there is no access to your local network, and the local network cannot access the data sent through the Sidewalk.

why pay for someone else?
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

why pay for someone else?

you dont have to

---

captpackrat posted...

All it does is allow smart devices like sensors and smart lights to continue working when the owner's internet connection or wifi is down, and allow for better tracking of things like pet locators and Tile trackers. It's limited to 80 kbps, slightly faster than dialup, and is capped at 500 MB per month. The data is sent using an encrypted tunnel so there is no access to your local network, and the local network cannot access the data sent through the Sidewalk.

Oh, then that makes it okay for things to connect to my network without my consent and leech off my Internet connection.

CaptainStrong posted...

Oh, then that makes it okay for things to connect to my network without my consent and leech off my Internet connection.

oh jeez you might lose some kilobytes

---

SaltyAndSweet posted...

oh jeez you might lose some kilobytes

Hey, can I run a bitcoin miner on your computer? It'll only use 5% of the CPU. No? You don't like being leeched off of? Why? You'll only lose some megahertz and some watts.

It works both ways. You provide a connection for others, and others will provide a connection to you when you need it. It will probably work out even in the long run.

---

Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corporation did a podcast on Sidewalk which explains a lot about it without giving in to the fearmongering that everyone else is doing.

https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm#796

https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-796.htm to read the transcript

The relevant section is about 2/3 of the way through.

The teal deer is that it's not WiFi sharing, it's BT LE and 900 MHz LoRa, it doesn't transmit IP packets, everything is encrypted, and all the devices on the network cryptographically rotate IDs. It works like a pot luck, you make a small fraction of your bandwidth available to others, and in turn they make a portion of their bandwidth available to you.

---

captpackrat posted...

you make a small fraction of your bandwidth available to others, and in turn they make a portion of their bandwidth available to you.

That sounds pointless

I feel like they should have had people opt in instead of having to opt out...
---

ReggieTheReckless posted...

That sounds pointless

I believe it is, until on of them loses internet...
---

CaptainStrong posted...

Hey, can I run a bitcoin miner on your computer? It'll only use 5% of the CPU. No? You don't like being leeched off of? Why? You'll only lose some megahertz and some watts.

idgaf

---

cool, Im gonna throw my alexa in the trash. I never used it anyway. Fuck amazon

---

LinkPizza posted...

I believe it is, until on of them loses internet...

I mean... forget them then? What's with this wacky thing that I should have to help out my damn neighbors. I hate my fucking neighbors so screw them.

Stupid companies. Stupid products that I don't have anyway so it doesn't affect me. Stupid.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

cool, Im gonna throw my alexa in the trash. I never used it anyway. Fuck amazon

You could also just opt out...

ReggieTheReckless posted...

I mean... forget them then? What's with this wacky thing that I should have to help out my damn neighbors. I hate my fucking neighbors so screw them.

Stupid companies. Stupid products that I don't have anyway so it doesn't affect me. Stupid.

If you hate you neighbors, then I guess its better to opt out. I think it also help to extend the range on certain devices. Which could help if the internet goes out in a small area or whatever... So, if the internet goes out on one side of the street, but not the other, you ring doorbell and other stuff would still work or whatever. It can be good in some cases. Though, they should have had people opt in instead of having to opt out...
---

LinkPizza posted...

I feel like they should have had people opt in instead of having to opt out...

Of course it should be opt in, but then they'd have far fewer participants.

---

dragon504 posted...

Of course it should be opt in, but then they'd have far fewer participants.

This is also true...
---

It really isnt as big of a deal as some people are trying to pretend it is

---

dragon504 posted...

Of course it should be opt in, but then they'd have far fewer participants.

not seeing the problem
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

not seeing the problem

shocking

---

I dont think our neighbors are close enough for this to work.

---

Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

I dont think our neighbors are close enough for this to work.

The newer devices use the 900 MHz (33 cm) band, which has much higher range and much lower bandwidth than Bluetooth which uses the 2.4 GHz band, or WiFi which uses the 2.4 and 5.0 GHz bands.

For the same power output, 900 MHz generally has more than twice the range of 2.4 GHz, and at least 4 times that of 5.0 GHz. 900 MHz can also penetrate foliage and buildings better than higher frequencies and it's less susceptible to multi-path propagation.

The main downsides to 900 MHz are available bandwidth, 26 MHz compared to 83 MHz for 2.4 GHz and 228 MHz for 5.0 GHz, and much slower data rates, as low as 9% of 2.4 GHz and 4% of 5.0 GHz speeds. 900 MHz used to be very common for cordless phones 25-30 years ago, but most manufacturers have switched to other bands.

---

captpackrat posted...

The newer devices use the 900 MHz (33 cm) band, which has much higher range and much lower bandwidth than Bluetooth which uses the 2.4 GHz band, or WiFi which uses the 2.4 and 5.0 GHz bands.

For the same power output, 900 MHz generally has more than twice the range of 2.4 GHz, and at least 4 times that of 5.0 GHz. 900 MHz can also penetrate foliage and buildings better than higher frequencies and it's less susceptible to multi-path propagation.

The main downsides to 900 MHz are available bandwidth, 26 MHz compared to 83 MHz for 2.4 GHz and 228 MHz for 5.0 GHz, and much slower data rates, as low as 9% of 2.4 GHz and 4% of 5.0 GHz speeds. 900 MHz used to be very common for cordless phones 25-30 years ago, but most manufacturers have switched to other bands.

Well, how far can that reach? Our current Wi-Fi cant even reach from our house to the edge of our property where mom and I were cutting firewood. I think she said it was 5 to 10 acres to that fence or something.

---

captpackrat posted...

and is capped at 500 MB per month.

That still feels like a lot?

---

Zeus posted...

That still feels like a lot?

I believe they said it was about the amount you would need to watch 10 minutes of a video of HD quality...
---

Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

Well, how far can that reach? Our current Wi-Fi cant even reach from our house to the edge of our property where mom and I were cutting firewood. I think she said it was 5 to 10 acres to that fence or something.

Range is very dependent on power, antenna size & configuration, and bandwidth. Obviously more power can throw a signal farther, and a bigger antenna can pick up a weaker signal. A directional antenna can transmit farther and receive weaker signals than one that is omnidirectional. And the narrower the bandwidth, the greater the range but the slower the data rate.

To improve the WiFi signal on my farm, I set up an outdoor-rated access point (TP-Link EAP110-Outdoor) high up on the side of the barn and I have it configured to use only a 20 MHz channel width (most APs default to 40 MHz or 20/40. I also have it set to use channel 1, which as the lowest frequency has slightly better range than higher channels. 835 feet away at the end of my driveway I get -76 dBm and 36 Mbps, not super but way better than Sprint. I'd probably have an even better signal if the barn wasn't covered in galvanized steel panels and if the AP wasn't on the side facing away from the driveway.




---

captpackrat posted...

Range is very dependent on power, antenna size & configuration, and bandwidth. Obviously more power can throw a signal farther, and a bigger antenna can pick up a weaker signal. A directional antenna can transmit farther and receive weaker signals than one that is omnidirectional. And the narrower the bandwidth, the greater the range but the slower the data rate.

To improve the WiFi signal on my farm, I set up an outdoor-rated access point (TP-Link EAP110-Outdoor) high up on the side of the barn and I have it configured to use only a 20 MHz channel width (most APs default to 40 MHz or 20/40. I also have it set to use channel 1, which as the lowest frequency has slightly better range than higher channels. 835 feet away at the end of my driveway I get -76 dBm and 36 Mbps, not super but way better than Sprint. I'd probably have an even better signal if the barn wasn't covered in galvanized steel panels and if the AP wasn't on the side facing away from the driveway.

I wouldn't be comfortable doing that due to rain. I guess it depends on how severe it would be.
---

again, why the fuck should I care if my neighbors internet goes down?
---

Revelation34 posted...

I wouldn't be comfortable doing that due to rain. I guess it depends on how severe it would be.

That's why I used one that's specifically designed for outdoor use. It's certified IP65, which means it's dust-tight and protected against jetting water.

---

Kinda funny people getting pissed at this when this is a two way street if you have a smart thermostat or smart lights and lose internet you will be using the neighbors internet to run them.

The amount of bandwidth this shit takes up is also extremely small, it's not like you are sharing your internet and then they are downloading games or movies or something. The vast majority of the bandwidth people use is when streaming or downloading something, if you remove those two uses for the internet it uses like 5-10% of bandwidth for everything else.

The only thing this will do is transmit and receive message packets. Like "turn on the light", "close the garage door", or "where are you?" Minuscule amount of data.

---